IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #28

[foxbluff]

I think what she is saying is he made it look like it was not a local.

ah ha !!! Okay, I get it now... ty.

 

[foxbluff]

ITA. Excellent post. God forbid anyone's name comes up in any relation to this case. Their lives are picked apart, sometimes they are actually physically approached, their property is photographed, their facebook, employment records etc scrutinized and then made public and when they are no longer are of interest to the posters or they have been ruled out no apologies made. No corrections to the information.

Yeah, WSers are never guilty of any of that stuff because we have rules here... :great:

Our worst times IMO are when we have nothing new to discuss.

Welcome back onboard, Shoregirl! Hope you'll want to "hang in" here. Fox

 

[shoregirl]

Yeah, WSers are never guilty of any of that stuff because we have rules here... :great:

Our worst times IMO are when we have nothing new to discuss.

Welcome back onboard, Shoregirl! Hope you'll want to "hang in" here. Fox

Thank you Fox! IS was too strict, the other was way too loose which made me kinda miss IS, for one thing I could never tell if someone was speculating or there was new information, then i saw someone posted WS over there today and I remembered Hurray! I am a member of WS! Hopefully this one will be just right!

 

[otto]

Within the first week when witnesses, family members, friends, acquaintences, etc came forward, I don't think any of them "feared for their safety" because they were focusing on finding the "missing" girls. As it became apparent over time that the case was more than "missing girls", I think some people who made early public statements probably regretted coming forward publicly and developed a "fear for safety".

I can see the point. If there were missing girls in my community, and I had seen them (or thought I had seen them) or their belongings within the hours of their disappearance or had some infomation that might assist in them being found, I would give the information out publicly and voluntarily to media and LE, in hopes that it would assist in them being located. As all the dynamics unfolded and it became later apparent that there was more to the case than them just "missing", and it was an "abduction" with theories of possible connections to drugs, sexual predators, serial killers, organized crime, trafficking, or retaliation for crimes, I would definately be scared and fearful of my life, and regret that I had INNOCENTLY spoken publicly, and I might even change my story or retract what I had initially stated so I appeared "less of a witness" out of fear! LE might even collaborate with me to no longer appear as a "credible witness" for my safety! I know this is done!

The fact that the children were "missing" is not in any way insignificant, nor is it indicative of what happened to the children. Eight and ten year old girls that have been missing for more than a day are almost always missing because of criminal activity. If I understand correctly, the implication seems to be that because an 8 year old girl was "missing" for only a few days, it was not really a reason for concern and therefore people that saw the children that day were unconcerned about talking with media. I completely disagree with this. If an eight year old girl is missing and no one knows where she is, then police need to get involved right away (as they were in this case) ... police don't usually get involved unless there is a very real possibility that there was criminal activity.

Regarding the cyclist's statement on July 16 or 17, I don't think police cared if he talked with media because they had information that contradicted his claim. The jogger has not talked with media and his/her name has not been released to media ... possibly because this information could be used if/when there is a trial. At the same time, the information from the jogger has been made public.

I fail to understand how anyone would "fear for their life" after notifying police that a missing person was last seen at Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus between 12:30 and 1:00. What sort of threat could present itself? That fact did not help locate the children's bodies and it has not helped identify the murderer. Police decided to release that information because they were hoping that: people would think about what they did that day, and that the information could generate new tips. There is absolutely no way that police would release false information about a missing person's timeline as it could create a complete waste of their time ... that is, they may receive 100s of new tips that are completely unrelated to the case.

Regardless, the cyclist has not changed his time. He claimed that he saw bikes at 12:20 on the Evansdale Nature Trail. He continues to claim that he saw bikes on the trail at 12:20. We know that whatever he saw is unrelated to the case because police have information that the girls were on Brovan at 12:15 and at 12:23. Additionally, we know that the video timestamp is 12:11 and that the video is 8 minutes slow, meaning the accurate video time is 12:19. It's simply impossible, even if you ignore the police times of 12:15 and 12:23, for the cyclist to have seen bikes belonging to the murdered children.

Police information regarding the timeline of the children that day has not been skewed, altered, or misrepresented for any reason. It is an active investigation. For police to lie about the children's timelines on the day that they were abducted would be completely (for lack of a better word, and in my opinion) foolish.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The fact that the children were "missing" is not in any way insignificant, nor is it indicative of what happened to the children. Eight and ten year old girls that have been missing for more than a day are almost always missing because of criminal activity. If I understand correctly, the implication seems to be that because an 8 year old girl was "missing" for only a few days, it was not really a reason for concern and therefore people that saw the children that day were unconcerned about talking with media. I completely disagree with this. If an eight year old girl is missing and no one knows where she is, then police need to get involved right away (as they were in this case) ... police don't usually get involved unless there is a very real possibility that there was criminal activity.

Regarding the cyclist's statement on July 16 or 17, I don't think police cared if he talked with media because they had information that contradicted his claim. The jogger has not talked with media and his/her name has not been released to media ... possibly because this information could be used if/when there is a trial. At the same time, the information from the jogger has been made public.

I fail to understand how anyone would "fear for their life" after notifying police that a missing person was last seen at Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus between 12:30 and 1:00. What sort of threat could present itself? That fact did not help locate the children's bodies and it has not helped identify the murderer. Police decided to release that information because they were hoping that: people would think about what they did that day, and that the information could generate new tips. There is absolutely no way that police would release false information about a missing person's timeline as it could create a complete waste of their time ... that is, they may receive 100s of new tips that are completely unrelated to the case.

Regardless, the cyclist has not changed his time. He claimed that he saw bikes at 12:20 on the Evansdale Nature Trail. He continues to claim that he saw bikes on the trail at 12:20. We know that whatever he saw is unrelated to the case because police have information that the girls were on Brovan at 12:15 and at 12:23. Additionally, we know that the video timestamp is 12:11 and that the video is 8 minutes slow, meaning the accurate video time is 12:19. It's simply impossible, even if you ignore the police times of 12:15 and 12:23, for the cyclist to have seen bikes belonging to the murdered children.

Police information regarding the timeline of the children that day has not been skewed, altered, or misrepresented for any reason. It is an active investigation. For police to lie about the children's timelines on the day that they were abducted would be completely (for lack of a better word, and in my opinion) foolish.

The only confirmed police timeline that I know of is 12.15 on Brovan.

I don't believe the other sightings have been officially confirmed, just mentioned as possible.

This would mean that Police information has remained consistent from the day the cctv was discovered.

I'm not quite sure why this has turned into such a topic for debate. At the end of the day, we are all just guessing.

All of us. No one has inside information here, except maybe TG, and he's now gone. The poor man only logged on in the first place to counteract all the gossip that he was "wrong", "mistaken", "lying", and "suspicious", all of which I have seen posted here.

Why would a man say he saw the bikes, log on to WS, go to the trouble of being verified, then just disappear like a dream?

You could say it's because he's had his 5 minutes of fame and is over it, OR you could say LE caught wind of his posting and told him to stop.

I'm going the second theory. He's been told to stop talking.

 

[roseofsharon]

It serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever to lie!

In the case of L and E, we have JP, TG and JC, but what if there were several other people coming forward after July 13th talking to MSM with sightings and times.

Would all these people be told to change their stories??? -- imo, no.

Just moo.

 

[foxbluff]

The fact that the children were "missing" is not in any way insignificant, nor is it indicative of what happened to the children. Eight and ten year old girls that have been missing for more than a day are almost always missing because of criminal activity. If I understand correctly, the implication seems to be that because an 8 year old girl was "missing" for only a few days, it was not really a reason for concern and therefore people that saw the children that day were unconcerned about talking with media. I completely disagree with this. If an eight year old girl is missing and no one knows where she is, then police need to get involved right away (as they were in this case) ... police don't usually get involved unless there is a very real possibility that there was criminal activity.

Regarding the cyclist's statement on July 16 or 17, I don't think police cared if he talked with media because they had information that contradicted his claim. The jogger has not talked with media and his/her name has not been released to media ... possibly because this information could be used if/when there is a trial. At the same time, the information from the jogger has been made public.

I fail to understand how anyone would "fear for their life" after notifying police that a missing person was last seen at Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus between 12:30 and 1:00. What sort of threat could present itself? That fact did not help locate the children's bodies and it has not helped identify the murderer. Police decided to release that information because they were hoping that: people would think about what they did that day, and that the information could generate new tips. There is absolutely no way that police would release false information about a missing person's timeline as it could create a complete waste of their time ... that is, they may receive 100s of new tips that are completely unrelated to the case.

Regardless, the cyclist has not changed his time. He claimed that he saw bikes at 12:20 on the Evansdale Nature Trail. He continues to claim that he saw bikes on the trail at 12:20. We know that whatever he saw is unrelated to the case because police have information that the girls were on Brovan at 12:15 and at 12:23. Additionally, we know that the video timestamp is 12:11 and that the video is 8 minutes slow, meaning the accurate video time is 12:19. It's simply impossible, even if you ignore the police times of 12:15 and 12:23, for the cyclist to have seen bikes belonging to the murdered children.

Police information regarding the timeline of the children that day has not been skewed, altered, or misrepresented for any reason. It is an active investigation. For police to lie about the children's timelines on the day that they were abducted would be completely (for lack of a better word, and in my opinion) foolish.

BBM - Just playing devil's advocate here... and just using one "what if" example... What if subj witness said he saw (2) little girls talking to somebody in a white van that had pulled over next to them?

 

[otto]

The only confirmed police timeline that I know of is 12.15 on Brovan.

I don't believe the other sightings have been officially confirmed, just mentioned as possible.

This would mean that Police information has remained consistent from the day the cctv was discovered.

I'm not quite sure why this has turned into such a topic for debate. At the end of the day, we are all just guessing.

All of us. No one has inside information here, except maybe TG, and he's now gone. The poor man only logged on in the first place to counteract all the gossip that he was "wrong", "mistaken", "lying", and "suspicious", all of which I have seen posted here.

Why would a man say he saw the bikes, log on to WS, go to the trouble of being verified, then just disappear like a dream?

You could say it's because he's had his 5 minutes of fame and is over it, OR you could say LE caught wind of his posting and told him to stop.

I'm going the second theory. He's been told to stop talking.

I'm not guessing about the timeline, I'm basing my information on police statements.

12:15

"Lyric and Elizabeth's grandmother reported seeing them on their bicycles about 12:15 p.m. on July 13." link

12:15,12:23, 12:30-1:00

"Rick Abben, chief deputy at the Black Hawk County Sheriff’s Office, said in a statement Thursday. “Both girls were last seen on July 13 at 12:15 p.m. riding their bicycles away from the Collins residence in Evansdale. We have information that the girls were seen approximately 12:23 p.m. on Brovan Blvd. and between 12:30 and 1:00 p.m. on Gilbert DR. in the area of Meyers Lake in Evansdale.” link

2:00

This is a summary of the timeline according to police statements:

12:15 - children at Brovan near Elizabeth's house
12:23 - children at Brovan near Elizabeth's house
12:30-1:00 - children at Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus (Elmer/Gilbert = entrance to Meyers Lake parking lot, Maiden Lane is off Arbutus)
2:00 - bikes at gate per jogger
3:40 - bikes at gate per volunteer firefighter search
3:58 - bikes confirmed at gate per investigators

12:20 - cyclist near SE tip of Meyers Lake
12:28 - cyclist at Meyers Lake parking lot per cell phone (Elmer/Gilbert)
12:30-1:00 ish - cyclist at Elmer/Gilbert heading East on Gilbert and then North on Evansdale Nature Trail to Lafayette
1:00-1:30 ish - cyclist on East end of Meyers Lake heading South across pedestrian bridge?

 

[roseofsharon]

BBM - Just playing devil's advocate here... and just using one "what if" example... What if subj witness said he saw (2) little girls talking to somebody in a white van that had pulled over next to them?

Devil's advocate 2 ... but if that was the case, if witness was smart, they would only give LE that information via the "tip" line, and remain anonymous. IMO

 

[otto]

It serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever to lie!

In the case of L and E, we have JP, TG and JC, but what if there were several other people coming forward after July 13th talking to MSM with sightings and times.

Would all these people be told to change their stories??? -- imo, no.

Just moo.

I agree ... there is no conspiracy to mislead the public about the timeline for the children on the day that they were abducted.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Devil's advocate 2 ... but if that was the case, if witness was smart, they would only give LE that information via the "tip" line, and remain anonymous. IMO

Again, Mr G, Mr P and Mr C all spoke before the disappearance was considered suspicious.

They have not spoken one word since LE declared it an Abduction.

We also have a poster here who shared her first hand experience with LE tactics in an investigation, confirming that they do indeed doctor the information they release.

Not quite sure why her story is being disregarded.

 

[RNER]

The fact that the children were "missing" is not in any way insignificant, nor is it indicative of what happened to the children. Eight and ten year old girls that have been missing for more than a day are almost always missing because of criminal activity. If I understand correctly, the implication seems to be that because an 8 year old girl was "missing" for only a few days, it was not really a reason for concern and therefore people that saw the children that day were unconcerned about talking with media. I completely disagree with this. If an eight year old girl is missing and no one knows where she is, then police need to get involved right away (as they were in this case) ... police don't usually get involved unless there is a very real possibility that there was criminal activity.

Regarding the cyclist's statement on July 16 or 17, I don't think police cared if he talked with media because they had information that contradicted his claim. The jogger has not talked with media and his/her name has not been released to media ... possibly because this information could be used if/when there is a trial. At the same time, the information from the jogger has been made public.

I fail to understand how anyone would "fear for their life" after notifying police that a missing person was last seen at Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus between 12:30 and 1:00. What sort of threat could present itself? That fact did not help locate the children's bodies and it has not helped identify the murderer. Police decided to release that information because they were hoping that: people would think about what they did that day, and that the information could generate new tips. There is absolutely no way that police would release false information about a missing person's timeline as it could create a complete waste of their time ... that is, they may receive 100s of new tips that are completely unrelated to the case.

Regardless, the cyclist has not changed his time. He claimed that he saw bikes at 12:20 on the Evansdale Nature Trail. He continues to claim that he saw bikes on the trail at 12:20. We know that whatever he saw is unrelated to the case because police have information that the girls were on Brovan at 12:15 and at 12:23. Additionally, we know that the video timestamp is 12:11 and that the video is 8 minutes slow, meaning the accurate video time is 12:19. It's simply impossible, even if you ignore the police times of 12:15 and 12:23, for the cyclist to have seen bikes belonging to the murdered children.

Police information regarding the timeline of the children that day has not been skewed, altered, or misrepresented for any reason. It is an active investigation. For police to lie about the children's timelines on the day that they were abducted would be completely (for lack of a better word, and in my opinion) idiotic.

Either you absolutly twisted everything I stated into something I didn't imply or I implied something I didn't mean to state. Either way...you missed what I was TRYING to say...

Missing children insignificant...absolutely not!

8 and 10 year olds missing for more than a day almost always criminal...?????

8 year old missing for a few days no concern to public...you did not understand correctly!

I never said the police weren't involved immediately...and most parents notify the police, security guard, forrest ranger immediately when they can't find their children-with or without knowledge of criminal activity.

3-4 days after the disappearances, they were already able to contradict his sighting with information...really???????? So, that would make it "insignificant".

Jogger's identity has not been released, which is a lot different than statements coming from a person who's identity is known...especially before an arrest, motive, and trial.

"fear for life" after notifying police...we don't know the results of anything the witnesses reported or what they reported, so it is presumptuous to assume that their information did not contribute to finding the girls or murderer or even motive.

False timeline by LE...didn't say that.

Cyclist timeline, video time stamp...didn't even talk about that or my thoughts on whether it is "related".

Police information regarding timeline skewed, altered, misrepresented...never said they "lied" or meant to imply it, because I believe it!

Otto, I agree with the police time lines that have come directly from LE, which is what you have repeatedly shown on here. I absolutely believe based on my personal experience, that LE does withhold information, alters some information that it releases to the public, and carefully communicates with the media and public. The media interpretation of what is actually stated is not always the truth, and as that information gets threaded down to various networks, it is less truthful from the original statement.

It has also been my experience that witnesses DO have a reason to be fearful, especially in cases of murder and drugs, because a witness to anything pertaining to a "crime" of this nature is unaware of how extensive that crime could be and who else is involved...unless we are to assume that Evansdale is exempt from any of this!

 

[Squeeze]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_5fabca9e-82b1-11e2-969a-001a4bcf887a.html

Good - saves us taxpayers money....

 

[roseofsharon]

Again, Mr G, Mr P and Mr C all spoke before the disappearance was considered suspicious.

They have not spoken one word since LE declared it an Abduction.

We also have a poster here who shared her first hand experience with LE tactics in an investigation, confirming that they do indeed doctor the information they release.

Not quite sure why her story is being disregarded.

So when Mr. JP notified LE about the video on July 16, three days after the girls disappeared, their disappearance wasn't considered suspicious at that time?


http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_c7394e3c-d6a6-11e1-a4f3-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[foxbluff]

Devil's advocate 2 ... but if that was the case, if witness was smart, they would only give LE that information via the "tip" line, and remain anonymous. IMO

I see what you're saying.

What if early on in this case, when LE held a couple of "motorist check pts" during the critical hours of this case trying to find drivers who travel that route on a daily basis (or whatever), and that's where they made contact w/subj witness?

 

[RNER]

Again, Mr G, Mr P and Mr C all spoke before the disappearance was considered suspicious.

They have not spoken one word since LE declared it an Abduction.

We also have a poster here who shared her first hand experience with LE tactics in an investigation, confirming that they do indeed doctor the information they release.

Not quite sure why her story is being disregarded.

THANK YOU!!!!!!

I really wish I could give details and examples, but I can't. There are trials coming up, and even after the trials, there is still a REAL concern for the safety of relatives and close friends of "the witness". I will say that when my relative reported findings to LE, they did not know the extent, dynamics, or extenuating circumstances of what they witnessed. They were just doing what every law-abiding good citizen does, which is report their findings to LE and help a person in need!

I am in no way implying that any of what I have said pertaining to my personal experience is occuring with the murdered girls. While there are a few similarities, there are many differences. I am just pointing out what people are stating DOES NOT happen, actually can and did happen in my relative's case!

 

[24Roses]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_5fabca9e-82b1-11e2-969a-001a4bcf887a.html

Good - saves us taxpayers money....

I was just going to post this information. Dan looks so sad and worn out in those pictures. I noticed he still wears his wedding ring. I know he made bad choices with drug abuse, but I hope he can possibly get some help while doing his prison sentence. I just can't help but feel sorry for him (don't yell at me please!)

 

[RNER]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_5fabca9e-82b1-11e2-969a-001a4bcf887a.html

Good - saves us taxpayers money....

“I feel like I’m in here for a Class A murderer,” Morrissey said.

Was this a mis-print?
Why would he be there for a "murderer"??????????????
Is he taking the rap for someone else, who is the "murderer"?
Did he mean to say "murder", indicating he feels like his charges and pending sentence is as severe as someone who comitted murder?

Am I just nit picking his statement?

 

[otto]

Again, Mr G, Mr P and Mr C all spoke before the disappearance was considered suspicious.

They have not spoken one word since LE declared it an Abduction.

We also have a poster here who shared her first hand experience with LE tactics in an investigation, confirming that they do indeed doctor the information they release.

Not quite sure why her story is being disregarded.

BBM

That is simply not true. There is no question that the disappearance was immediately considered suspicious.

Friday, July 13, 2012

7 p.m., Iowa State Patrol airplane with forward-looking infrared joins the search. Authorities begin interviewing local people listed on the state Sex Offender Registry.

8 p.m., Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation and National Center for Missing and Exploited Children notified. FBI brought in. STAR-1, an Iowa search and rescue group, is contacted.

8:30 p.m., NCMEC begins emailing and faxing photos and descriptions of the girls to truck stops, stores and public places within a 100 mile radius of Evansdale.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...tml_c8ef29ca-d077-11e1-8635-001a4bcf887a.html

Regarding personal stories, I would like to know all of the facts before believing that police "doctor" the day of disappearance timelines for kidnapped persons.

 

[threecrazykids]

I was just going to post this information. Dan looks so sad and worn out in those pictures. I noticed he still wears his wedding ring. I know he made bad choices with drug abuse, but I hope he can possibly get some help while doing his prison sentence. I just can't help but feel sorry for him (don't yell at me please!)

I noticed he still has on his wedding ring too. I too feel sorry for him. I think people who are addicted will do things that if sober, they wouldn't even think of doing, and they find themselves down a fast path of self destruction.

On the other hand, I also see drugs as a choice. You choose to do either do drugs or don't. I'm hoping as well that he can get the help he needs to overcome his drug addiction.