IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #29

[SapphireSteel]

Police have stated that the girls disappeared while cycling. If you have any information about the children disappearing while walking when their bikes were a mile away, please post a link.

How do we know they were definitely the girls bikes that TG saw?

 

[otto]

The link leads to the Governors Office Of Drug Control Policy, not the Evansdale Police or BHCSO.

It is clearly not "the official statement from investigators". If it was, it would be on the letterhead of the BHCSO or the Evansdale Police or even the FBI.

The jogger only saw the bikes not the girls, and no one's disputing the bikes were there, so I'm not quite sure what is important about this detail.

There is no reason to dispute that the bikes were at the gate at the SE tip of Meyers Lake from 2 PM onward. They were with the children on Brovan at 12:23. The question is what happened between the time that they cycled to the lake, around 12:30-1:00 and 2:00, and when their bikes were seen by the jogger at 2:00. That is the critical time, not 12:20.

Furthermore, police have never stated that the children were cycling on Brovan at 12:15, that their bikes were a mile away at 12:20, that they were again cycling on Brovan at 12:23, and then they were walking the mile to the lake.

 

[otto]

How do we know they were definitely the girls bikes that TG saw?

We know that whatever the cyclist saw is completely unrelated to the missing children because the girls were cycling on Brovan at 12:15 and 12:23 and the cyclist was at the SE tip of the lake at 12:20.

 

[SapphireSteel]

We know that whatever the cyclist saw is completely unrelated to the missing children because the girls were cycling on Brovan at 12:15 and 12:23 and the cyclist was at the SE tip of the lake at 12:20.

If they were on Brovan, why do you think they weren't either

a. found by grandma or who went out looking at 12.30 or

b. caught on cctv again?

:waitasec:

Okay I'm hopelessly lost. Are you saying there's another cyclist other than TG?

 

[Confusion]

If they were on Brovan, why do you think they weren't either

a. found by grandma or who went out looking at 12.30 or

b. caught on cctv again?

:waitasec:

Okay I'm hopelessly lost. Are you saying there's another cyclist other than TG?

The other person/witness wasn't a cyclist, unless I'm as lost as you are. At around 2:45 TB said she talked to a man at the lake who said he saw 2 girls on bikes at about 2:30. I believe it was the woman from the FBI, whose name I don't remember who said that a jogger had seen the bikes at around 2:00. I've never heard anything about another biker. MOO

 

[Snowbunny]

I'll throw another ringer in here...why did LE want to speak with the guy in the white van that came forward? I have never really gotten an answer about the white van and what significance that has played in all of this so if anyone has the answer to that question I thank you in advance.

 

[Snowbunny]

I assume the situation involving a paddle boat came into play because someone must of have said something about seeing a paddle boat on the lake and I can only assume LE wanted to speak to them to see if they may have seen anything suspicious concerning the girls. To this day I don't know what it was that brought the white van to LE's attention or why. I know the guy who owned the white van came forward, but wasn't the white van that was in question at the gas station or something like that?

 

[Snowbunny]

What ever happened to our poetry writer on "Rant & Raves" on Craig's List? Haven't heard anything about him in a while. I wonder if he stopped writing that crap he was writing?

 

[Snowbunny]

Just checked Craig's List for Waterloo and Cedar Rapids and the creepy person is still writing creepy poems.

 

[Reverie]

Does anyone remember when this case first broke the news was they were last seen behind a shop. What shop by whom and who,works or patronizes said shop? Does anyone know? Were the owners or any shoppers at this shop that day, even interviewed?

IIRC, it was Lederman's Big & Tall.

 

[Bootsctr]

I'll throw another ringer in here...why did LE want to speak with the guy in the white van that came forward? I have never really gotten an answer about the white van and what significance that has played in all of this so if anyone has the answer to that question I thank you in advance.

Hi Snowbunny! :seeya: I have a link about the guy in the white van. I did not think he was cleared by LE either (and he was still on my radar of suspicion too), but this article says he was:

CBS/AP) EVANSDALE, Iowa - Authorities say a man seen in a surveillance photo has spoken to investigators and is not a suspect in the abduction of Iowa cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey and Elizabeth Collins.

FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault says the man and a white van had been seen at an Evansdale convenience store about 2 p.m. July 13, two hours before firefighters found the bicycles of 9-year-old Elizabeth and 10-year-old Lyric. The man spoke to investigators on Wednesday.

The man was identified by KWWL-TV as 34-year old Mike Knief of Evansdale. He told the station he had recognized himself in surveillance photos released by the FBI and immediately contacted authorities.

"We got things all sorted out and they released me and said I wasn't a suspect in any way or anything. It's just they were following the leads," Knief told the station in a phone interview.

Mike Knief told KWWL that he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and had no information related to the cousins' disappearance.

Authorities say they believe the girls were abducted.

Earlier Wednesday, Capt. Rick Abben of the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office, said investigators were aware of a reported abduction attempt of a Cedar Rapids boy by people in a van. Abben says it's impossible to tell whether the Cedar Rapids incident is somehow related to the missing girls.

Complete coverage of the missing Iowa cousins here: http://www.cbsnews.com/crimesider/?k...in;contentBody

Link to the article above: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...o-authorities/

The date of the above article is August 1, so it took some time for investigators to actually find video surveillance of this guy and his white van. I'm clueless - did someone report this specific van as a tip and investigators then search video? Authorities say he is not a suspect. . . Interesting! It would help if they would say that about more people :moo:

 

[Bootsctr]

SapphireSteel, I am going to watch the video you posted of the gentleman who filmed the area where the girls' bodies were supposedy found. I'm open to this possibly being government land, but now private. There is a similar roadside park in my area. It was at one point government funded. It had picnic tables and huge oak trees. It was not secluded, just a convenient place to pull off the road during a long drive or even have a nice picnic. Due to lack of funds, the park has been closed. They removed the picnic tables and fenced it off. I know they did it to keep people from using it, but it actually looks like it might be private land now. By the way, the edge of the former park is heavily wooded and I always thought someone would not have to travel far to dump a body there and would not be discovered for some time.

I wasn't happy about the park closing. It had been there as long as I could remember. Got my first kiss on the cheek there when our third grade class stopped to eat our sack lunches after a trip to the zoo. He had to work for that kiss too. He chased me around the trees and over the big rocks. . .

 

[threecrazykids]

It seems that there was indeed a jogger ... at 2M ... who saw the bikes at the gate:

I appreciate the posting of this MISSING children's poster, however, this information appears to have been given EARLY in the investigation of them still being considered missing. All the info on that poster is asking people to keep looking out for the girls. Correct?

If we are to rely on the info from this poster, we can eliminate the video, the 12:23 sighting on Brovan and can establish that they were "seen riding their bikes" at 12:30". We don't know where, but they were still alive at 12:30, somewhere.

So...for argument's sake, nothing PRIOR to 12:30 matters, as they were still seen WITH THEIR BIKES, and ALIVE at 12:30.

So, with that, the cyclist's sighting is out, as they were still with their bikes, and alive at 12:30.

So now our time of abduction has to be between 12:30 and 2, per this poster, as the jogger saw JUST THE BIKES at the gate at 2.

I can't find a date of the last time this poster was updated, but regardless, the sightings prior to 12:30 are all irrelevant according to this poster.

So what info do we have to sleuth between 12:30 and 2?

We know they were seen "between 12:30 and 1" close to the lake in the Elmer/Gilbert area.

What other facts can we add?

 

[otto]

I appreciate the posting of this MISSING children's poster, however, this information appears to have been given EARLY in the investigation of them still being considered missing. All the info on that poster is asking people to keep looking out for the girls. Correct?

If we are to rely on the info from this poster, we can eliminate the video, the 12:23 sighting on Brovan and can establish that they were "seen riding their bikes" at 12:30". We don't know where, but they were still alive at 12:30, somewhere.

So...for argument's sake, nothing PRIOR to 12:30 matters, as they were still seen WITH THEIR BIKES, and ALIVE at 12:30.

So, with that, the cyclist's sighting is out, as they were still with their bikes, and alive at 12:30.

So now our time of abduction has to be between 12:30 and 2, per this poster, as the jogger saw JUST THE BIKES at the gate at 2.

I can't find a date of the last time this poster was updated, but regardless, the sightings prior to 12:30 are all irrelevant according to this poster.

So what info do we have to sleuth between 12:30 and 2?

We know they were seen "between 12:30 and 1" close to the lake in the Elmer/Gilbert area.

What other facts can we add?

Yes, the poster is from the time that the children were still missing, so between July 13, 2012 and Dec 5, 2012. Are you thinking that information published about the case during those five months is no longer relevant?

The critical time period is between 12:30 and 2:00, and other than a tip about the children (with their bikes) near the park on Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus (probably the lawn watering man and surround neighbors), no one saw them again. We cannot forget that the lawn watering man recognized Elizabeth and saw the children riding their bikes. That is the time (12:30-2:00) that something happened, most likely closer to 1:00. All the discussion about 12:11, 12:15, 12:19, questioning whether police were deceptive when they released a statement in September regarding the children's timeline, and whether a missing person's document released sometime in the fall still holds truthful information, seems sooooo counter-productive.

 

[threecrazykids]

Yes, the poster is from the time that the children were still missing, so from July 2012 until Dec 5, 2012. Are you thinking that information published about the case during those five months is no longer relevant?

Not at all. I'm saying, that I haven't seen ANY information, from LE or otherwise that has given a sighting AFTER 12:30...so anything that happened PRIOR to 12:30 is completely irrelevant as far as them already being abducted and their bikes being ditched PRIOR to that time.

This poster clearly states the girls were seen RIDING THEIR BIKES at 12:30. So the bikes were NOT dumped prior to 12:30.

The 12:15 sighting, whether you believe it's Wylma's sighting OR the video, doesn't matter.

The 12:23 sighting on Brovan doesn't matter.

This poster says they were seen riding at 12:30, and we ALSO know, they were in the area of Elmer/Gilbert between 12:30 and 1:00.

That said, they can't be in 2 places at once, nor were they EN ROUTE to the Elmer/Gilbert area...they were already there.

Which THEN establishes they made the bike ride from Brovan to Elmer/Gilbert in EXACTLY 7 minutes (12:23 to 12:30).

They had to be abducted AFTER 12:30 (if we are to believe this poster information).

 

[cindersoot]

We were warned not to talk about the witness, remember.

 

[carbuff]

Hm. Looking at the poster again reinforces my belief that some of the agencies involved have different scenarios about what happened and where and when the girls were seen...hopefully that doesn't mean some agencies are refusing to look at the information from other agencies...

 

[shoregirl]

IMO the ONLY reliable thing on the timeline prior to the finding of the bikes IS the videotape. Everything else is eyewitness and therefore potentially unreliable. Including Wilmas statement as to when they left

 

[shoregirl]

Hm. Looking at the poster again reinforces my belief that some of the agencies involved have different scenarios about what happened and where and when the girls were seen...hopefully that doesn't mean some agencies are refusing to look at the information from other agencies...

The timeline was also very fluid in the beginning, and may have to necessarily be changed if upon following up on tips they received new information. Add the different agencies involved and it furthers muddies the waters. I hope they were all the same page...

 

[cindersoot]

It was said that a trespasser went on his property and took pictures. I think that refers to when I went to Evansdale last summer and took pictures. I took a picture of the entrance to his driveway, that was NOT private property but a public road. A public road, is not private property.