IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #29

[threecrazykids]

Just because there are discrepancies doesn't automatically mean anybody is lying.

People are inaccurate. People make mistakes. They misremember times and locations, they misidentify faces, they remember things wrong and have to go back to correct themselves, they disagree about what they saw or maybe heard. You think you remember what time something happened because you looked at your watch just before, and think only a few minutes had passed but really it was half an hour.

I think that in all these interviews with family members, the timelines are inconsistent because nobody was paying that much attention to the clock. It was a lazy summer day. The girls were out playing; nobody thought too much of it. They didn't know something bad was about to happen. Going back to try to reconstruct the time is going to be difficult at best.

I would be far more suspicious if the times were consistent and coherent, because that would seem to indicate collusion. Inconsistency is the norm.

I understand what you're saying about inaccuracies, but honestly...it shouldn't STILL be a big fog as to who was where, when, and doing what during the most tragic day in this families lives.

This is 5 months into the investigation and they are completely contradicting each other's accounts of what happened, and LE has apparently cleared the parents? How is that even possible?

I understand, how, in the first few days the accounts of what happened the times and accounts could have been a bit blurry...but with cell phone calls, cctv catching family members in their vehicles (out searching), and accounts of OTHER PEOPLE verifying they were out looking, how can the discrepancies still be so off?

Frustrating to say the least. I just don't know WHO to believe. :banghead:

 

[Reverie]

I understand clearing the undergrowth and making it safe. I just can't tell if they are clearing all of the trees or just enough to put in the trail and gazebo.

Does anybody else here think this is complete overkill? IMO, ONE of these changes would be a fine memorial for the girls:

1. Renaming the park and trail with a community grand opening and dedication event.
2. Altering the current island to accommodate a new gazebo with community grand opening, etc
3. A park bench or two along the trail to memorialize both girls.
:moo::moo::moo:

I suppose the project at least provides local jobs temporarily.

But I still think that whomever is pushing this project must be compensating for something.:moo:

 

[shoregirl]

Well...this interview certainly puts some new twists on things; ESPECIALLY the timeline that has been released from LE.

Pt 1:Tania Fiolleau interviews parents of Iowa Missing Cousins - YouTube Part 1
Pt:2 Tania Fiolleau interviews parents of Iowa Missing Cousins - YouTube Part 2

*****This interview was done the day before Black Friday, so Nov 22nd, 2012 - per Heather****

So, with that said...Heather KNOWS the timeline that has been released...and yet this is the timeline SHE gives.

Heather leaves for Dr. Appt that morning

Heather arrives home at 12:00 and Wylma told her the girls had "just left" on a bike ride.
So...this puts the girls OUT of the house riding their bikes BEFORE 12.

At 1:00 "they" become concerned because the girls aren't back.
***So this means that those girls were gone BEFORE 12 and had been gone a full HOUR before anyone became concerned enough to go look for them...and this is Heather talking, NOT WYLMA.

(I now don't think it was THAT uncommon for them to be gone on longer trips.)

Kelly (her son who is 13) goes out and looks for the girls. (this is at 1).

Kelly comes home, and hasn't found the girls.

At 1:20 HEATHER LEAVES TO LOOK FOR GIRLS (very specific time given).

She can't find them, and goes to police station to report them missing.

****Keep in mind, records show that the police report of the girls missing was opened at 2:48pm on July 13th.

****************************************

Other things I noticed (between the 2 videos):

Watch the look on Heather's face when Drew states that this is a "faith tester". She appears to me to be very disgusted that he's even mentioning that this has shaken his faith...she looks down and won't look at him.

Heather states that she believes the enemy throws things at us to test our faith, and HE tries to do things to test us. Who is "he"? Is she referring to the devil?

Heather mentiones that the school has implemented a "secret #" that a person would need to pick up a child from school, and if you don't have that number, you can't get your child. **Would this be necessary if the general concensus of the community was that their abductions had a familial connection?**

Drew mentions that he is working on posters, notifying the community of missing sex offenders to help locate offenders that haven't registered, etc. However, at the 9:10 mark, the interviewer specifically asks if LE has given any profile or indicator that this would be a sex offender - and he immediately pipes up "NOPE!" **I don't know why, but this strikes me as odd as well. The way he says "NOPE!" and looks at Heather just has my hinky meter going off...not sure why, but it does.

In the second video - at the 2:40 mark, the interviewer states that she's read on the internet that there has been speculation about the parents involvement. Heather answers, and IMMEDIATELY takes the focus to Misty and Dan, saying that she is "stopped in the grocery store all the time and asked about Misty and Dan's involvement." **The interviewer didn't ask about Misty and Dan, and weren't interviewing Misty and Dan. THEN at the 4:00 mark, the interviewer mentions that "you both have been cleared as suspects" and they both nod YES.

3 different times (between the 2 videos) this interviewer asks them what they would like to say to the person who took these girls. Once in the first video it's at the 4:54 mark - and they speak only of forgiveness. In the second video it's asked TWICE as to what they want to say and they bring the focus back to them, and who is alive and how bad it's hurting THEM and their children who are home with them. Again at the 6:14 mark they are asked for the 3rd time to speak TO THE ABDUCTOR and they then say they pray for them every day, as well as "the person who knows something", state they have no judgements, they forgive them, want to speak to their inner child about how hurt they had to have been as a child, etc. They do mention to drop them off somewhere safe, but it's almost a side note, not really a personal plea of "these girls deserve to be let go...please don't harm them, etc".

Also...who is this other man whose daughter was raped and murdered - who lives in Evansdale that he is working with? Was she an adult, a child? Could there be a conncection there?!!
**************

However, the big factors for me in these interviews is again, the TIMELINE.

This interview is AFTER the release of the 12:23 "sighting" on Brovan that was released in September.

If these girls were seen at 12:23 on Brovan then there is no way in hell the family wouldn't have seen them. They were caught on the video at 12:11/12:19, and 2 the second time at the 12:23 mention. All they would have had to do (before the 1:00 mark when they became concerned) is to walk outside and look down the street and they'd be there if the 12:23 sighting was valid!

Heather was HOME before 12. Those girls didn't leave the house at 12:15. They left (according to Wylma) at 11:30, and had been gone 1 and 1/2 hours before Kelly was sent out to look for them. Heather was home at 12 and wasn't concerned until 1. Plus, I thought DREW was home around the noon hour as well (maybe 12:30).

Why is there no mention of anyone else going out and looking for the girls? No mention of what Wylma did, as she said she took Kelly with her to look. Never has their been a mention of Kelly going and searching by himself and coming back empty handed. No mention of calling Misty to have her look. No mention of Tammy and Wylma going to look. Nothing.

Something isn't right. And if we are to trust LE, and just simply believe that LE's word is factual, blah, blah, blah, then I want to know this: Why would Heather and Drew have reason to lie about their own timeline when it completely contradicts what has been released by LE?

This timeline is JACKED, period. Someone is lying.

It's pretty sad when I don't know whether to doubt the police or the "cleared" parents of one of these missing girls. Pisses me off (sorry for the language).:furious:

My first thought is that Wylma told Heather they "just left" because she didn't want her to know they had already been gone awhile. Wylma to me is a problem with the timeline...she is the beginning. We only have her saying when they left. I think they had been gone awhile.

 

[cindersoot]

I understand being upset at the trees all being chopped down. I'm not sure I even understand the reasoning behind cutting down trees. Don't most parks have trees? Are there plans of what the island is going to look like when they are done?

How do you know all the trees are being cut down? Maybe they are clearing an area for the gazebo.

 

[shoregirl]

Does anybody else here think this is complete overkill? IMO, ONE of these changes would be a fine memorial for the girls:

1. Renaming the park and trail with a community grand opening and dedication event.
2. Altering the current island to accommodate a new gazebo with community grand opening, etc
3. A park bench or two along the trail to memorialize both girls.
:moo::moo::moo:

I suppose the project at least provides local jobs temporarily.

But I still think that whomever is pushing this project must be compensating for something.:moo:

I don't see anything wrong with it. I can't see anything sinister in building a memorial. It is small town and they were "their girls". I am sure it effected the community deeply. jmo

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I think for the memorial, two things should happen:

1. There should be a vote by the entire community or county (depending on whose tax dollars are being used) asking if they are for/against it. I'm not saying there should be some magical number that gets the memorial built or not built, but if 80% are against it, maybe it's time to re-think this idea. Going by comments I've read online about the memorial for Elizabeth and Lyric and Jessica R, I don't think the local population is as gung-ho about these memorials as people want to believe.

2. If the memorial can't be financed 100% by community donations, it's time to re-think it. If you need to take taxpayer money or donations from businesses only looking for PR, do the people really want it? Or is this memorial so expensive that the community can't afford it?

 

[Reverie]

Jumping in here on the last couple comments. It would make sense to me that LE is not releasing information on the case to help them in the end. The less information released to the public the fewer people that know. The fewer people that know the more information only the kidnapper/murder knows. This could prevent the wrong person from confessing and a safe case closed conviction.

I'm a local and I'm not really sure why they are making way for a new gazebo and not just using available land. The only reason I can think of is to connect the walking path. You would think they would want the view of the interstate to remain fairly blocked, but who knows.

All IMO of course..


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I've never used this icon before, but your post deserves it! :rocker:

 

[Reverie]

I think for the memorial, two things should happen:

1. There should be a vote by the entire community or county (depending on whose tax dollars are being used) asking if they are for/against it. I'm not saying there should be some magical number that gets the memorial built or not built, but if 80% are against it, maybe it's time to re-think this idea. Going by comments I've read online about the memorial for Elizabeth and Lyric and Jessica R, I don't think the local population is as gung-ho about these memorials as people want to believe.

2. If the memorial can't be financed 100% by community donations, it's time to re-think it. If you need to take taxpayer money or donations from businesses only looking for PR, do the people really want it? Or is this memorial so expensive that the community can't afford it?

:rocker:

The community likely could/would support and fund a park bench or two.
My question is why launch such an expensive complete overhaul of the park? Is the project driven by guilt, or some other emotion? Emotional decisions are rarely sound decisions. :moo:

 

[georger]

Thank you! Love your avatar btw! Love squirrels! Have raised several. They have a special place in my heart!

Okay, back to your post, "Maybe there were kidnapping attempts BEFORE Lyric and Elizabeth disappeared too!" I would love to know if there were attempts prior and basically disregarded, never made the news (although I believe they did) because the attempts were unsuccessful. I love your thought process. I've been thinking along the same lines - thank you for saying it outloud! :rocker:

well . . . one thought I've had during this whole thing, is the Nature of the whole area north of Evansdale, I mean the Waterloo Gulag. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out crime stats for that area (population) are basically - unreliable/unknown! Fertile area for "anything" of a criminal nature. Drugs being just one dimension. 'Little Detroit' is what I've heard it called.

So abductions and unsolved crimes over the last 40 years in that context (occasionally involving surrounding communities) is probably just a fact of life. If the 'girls' abduction and deaths are a facet of that, if the families' problems merge into that, then anything may be possible .... it is an angle I've wondered about this since this all started ? I wonder if LE can even penetrate what goes on there! I could see LE hitting a stone wall and it might just explain why the FBI quickly jumped to "out of State connection".

 

[georger]

I think for the memorial, two things should happen:

1. There should be a vote by the entire community or county (depending on whose tax dollars are being used) asking if they are for/against it. I'm not saying there should be some magical number that gets the memorial built or not built, but if 80% are against it, maybe it's time to re-think this idea. Going by comments I've read online about the memorial for Elizabeth and Lyric and Jessica R, I don't think the local population is as gung-ho about these memorials as people want to believe.

2. If the memorial can't be financed 100% by community donations, it's time to re-think it. If you need to take taxpayer money or donations from businesses only looking for PR, do the people really want it? Or is this memorial so expensive that the community can't afford it?

Maybe they should wait to find out what happened before building a "memorial" to it ! ???

I'm already tired of "media moments" vs. "solving this case and getting justice", not to mention making a small dent in "protecting the community and other people and their children" in the midst of less than ideal social-security circumstances where the very notion of "family" went extinct in the United States since 1980 ! ! ?

:banghead:

 

[Aymstriss]

Just something I was thinking about, regarding not making the COD public, I know we have discussed that they may keeping it under wraps so just some random attention seeker can’t confess to the crime. Maybe another reason is to keep it unknown is a interrogation tool. Maybe the reason is if they are questioning a possible suspect and they slip and say something like, “...I didn’t shoot them...” Then LE could question...” who said they were shot”....

Just a thought.

 

[tlcya]

at about 9:20 in the first video interview linked above the reporter asks Drew Collins if his focus on sex offenders is due to any indication from LE that they have a particular profile of the kidnapper. Drew responds very quickly with "nope" and explains his interest in the RSO's who are not reporting and unaccounted for is due to a friend from in town whose daughter was abducted raped and murdered a few years ago.

per Drew - None of those people may not have anything to do with this case but these people - we need to know who they are and where they're at.

Does anyone know which case he refers to when talking of the friend in town whose daughter was kidnapped, raped and murdered? it was not specified if the daughter was a minor or an adult at the time she was killed.

 

[Marilynilpa]

at about 9:20 in the first video interview linked above the reporter asks Drew Collins if his focus on sex offenders is due to any indication from LE that they have a particular profile of the kidnapper. Drew responds very quickly with "nope" and explains his interest in the RSO's who are not reporting and unaccounted for is due to a friend from in town whose daughter was abducted raped and murdered a few years ago.

per Drew - None of those people may not have anything to do with this case but these people - we need to know who they are and where they're at.

Does anyone know which case he refers to when talking of the friend in town whose daughter was kidnapped, raped and murdered? it was not specified if the daughter was a minor or an adult at the time she was killed.

This was discussed upthread - let me see if I can find a link. IIRC, the daughter was not a minor.

 

[carbuff]

I understand what you're saying about inaccuracies, but honestly...it shouldn't STILL be a big fog as to who was where, when, and doing what during the most tragic day in this families lives.

This is 5 months into the investigation and they are completely contradicting each other's accounts of what happened, and LE has apparently cleared the parents? How is that even possible?

I understand, how, in the first few days the accounts of what happened the times and accounts could have been a bit blurry...but with cell phone calls, cctv catching family members in their vehicles (out searching), and accounts of OTHER PEOPLE verifying they were out looking, how can the discrepancies still be so off?

Frustrating to say the least. I just don't know WHO to believe. :banghead:

I dunno. Seems to me like the world isn't always that orderly or logical. I think most of the people who have come forward with sightings and/or times are sincere and believe they are correct, and it's quite likely the contradictions won't get fully sorted out until and unless they come out under oath at a trial. It might well be that the jury is going to have to decide which time is correct and which is based on a mistake or a lie.

I get the impression that LE doesn't think anything the family was doing is relevant, so it doesn't matter whether they've contradicted each other, etc. LE acts and speaks as if they know that whatever happened, happened away from the family.

I hope they're right...

 

[Reverie]

Maybe they should wait to find out what happened before building a "memorial" to it ! ???

I'm already tired of "media moments" vs. "solving this case and getting justice", not to mention making a small dent in "protecting the community and other people and their children" in the midst of less than ideal social-security circumstances where the very notion of "family" went extinct in the United States since 1980 ! ! ?

:banghead:

:rocker:

 

[eileenhawkeye]

:rocker:

The community likely could/would support and fund a park bench or two.
My question is why launch such an expensive complete overhaul of the park? Is the project driven by guilt, or some other emotion? Emotional decisions are rarely sound decisions. :moo:

I do think these memorials/park renovations get pushed through because of guilt. No one wants to say "No" to the parents of a murdered child, especially in a case with media interest, where your name and statements will be all over the local news. Who is going to speak against it at the town council meeting when the family is in attendance? For example, the Jessica Ridgeway Park renovation is estimated to cost $538k. Now, if this park renovation was not being pushed by the parents of a murdered child, would it happen? Would it happen so quickly? I do not think the complete lack of opposition to these memorials/park renovations (off of the Internet) is a sign that everyone in the community is 100% in support, but that people don't want to look like the "bad guy".

Wasn't there some group trying to get a memorial walkway built for Caylee Anthony? But it never happened? I don't know the story behind it...but I wonder if it was easier for the city of Orlando/people of Orlando to say "No" to some unrelated group whereas cities like Westminster or Evansdale are in a different scenario because the memorials are being pushed by the parents, and you can't say "no" to the parents?

 

[cindersoot]

Wow, I had forgotten that one.

A note written by either girl?

Could be evidence of a note in the purse.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I dunno. Seems to me like the world isn't always that orderly or logical. I think most of the people who have come forward with sightings and/or times are sincere and believe they are correct, and it's quite likely the contradictions won't get fully sorted out until and unless they come out under oath at a trial. It might well be that the jury is going to have to decide which time is correct and which is based on a mistake or a lie.

I get the impression that LE doesn't think anything the family was doing is relevant, so it doesn't matter whether they've contradicted each other, etc. LE acts and speaks as if they know that whatever happened, happened away from the family.

I hope they're right...

But IMO, it does matter if one person says they are at a certain place at a certain time, but no one else mentions that person in their timeline. Sure, times can be off, but are you going to forget who you were with?

It's confusing . . . like almost everything in this case!:banghead:

 

[cindersoot]

The building of the gazebo and other memorials is all fine and dandy, but in my opinion it should of been put on hold until this case is solved and the killer is put behind bars. If this case remains cold the money could be going to someone who can crack the case, ie. hiring an investigator who is a professional at solving cold cases.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Maybe they should wait to find out what happened before building a "memorial" to it ! ???

I'm already tired of "media moments" vs. "solving this case and getting justice", not to mention making a small dent in "protecting the community and other people and their children" in the midst of less than ideal social-security circumstances where the very notion of "family" went extinct in the United States since 1980 ! ! ?

:banghead:

:goodpost:

If this turns out to be "just" another family/domestic type crime, it will be a permanent reminder of a bunch of methheads who killed their kids.

Theoretically!!!!!!!!!!! Not accusing anyone of anything, just aware there are no definite answers at this point and the girls may never have even got to the lake in the first place.