IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #29

[allison78ca]

Sorry just found this thread... What do you guys think about the idea that this was staged.... The whole thing... Fake. I thought the idea of this being fake INSANE. Until I saw the clip supporting that.


Just trying to make this world a safer place for our children.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Sorry just found this thread... What do you guys think about the idea that this was staged.... The whole thing... Fake. I thought the idea of this being fake INSANE. Until I saw the clip supporting that.


Just trying to make this world a safer place for our children.

I'm pretty sure by now word would have gotten out that Lyric and Elizabeth were alive, if this whole thing were fake. Would the police be in on it? What about the hunters that found the bodies?

 

[cluciano63]

I really do not understand not at least labeling their deaths as homicides, unless they really do not have a COD, but surely they did not die of natural, accidental, or suicide? Manner of death should be able to be determined even if cause cannot. How on earth would the girls have ended up where they were found, if not taken there by adults (kidnapping)? Any death resulting from kidnapping should be homicide. Why won't LE say as much?

 

[Considering]

Sorry just found this thread... What do you guys think about the idea that this was staged.... The whole thing... Fake. I thought the idea of this being fake INSANE. Until I saw the clip supporting that.


Just trying to make this world a safer place for our children.

No, I don't think the abduction/murder of Lyric and Elizabeth was staged or faked, but what "clip" are talking about?

 

[cluciano63]

In the case of Jennifer Ramsaran, LE is also not saying her death is a homicide as yet, but she was found about a month ago, not over three months, as the girls were, even though it certainly appears she was murdered, or at the least least, her body was dumped.

I think it must be very be extra stress for locals, when LE does not at least reassure them that they are investigating the cases as homicides and also adds to the rumor mill as well as to the belief by some that LE is either incompetent or covering something up. Holly Bobo and Kortne Stouffer come to mind, as cases where LE has had so little communication with the communities that it boggles the mind, and starts some inklings of conspiracy theories. JMO

 

[superbee]

I see the highway crosses and memorials too. They make me sad so I know the families must feel that x 10,000. To me, it is intrusive to take over the park in such a way that no one who actually lives there would have no say whatsoever. With the trees gone, the Interstate will be so much louder. It is like the family is getting the cart before the horse. What do Misty and Dan say about the memorial? Wylma? Maybe they don't want a memorial at the lake. The girls weren't found there and we don't even know if they were murdered there. It's not even a place where people swim. I certainly don't want to offend the locals who think this is a good idea, but the more I think about it, it becomes more strange. If the killer lives at the lake or close to it, why attract more children to go there? :waitasec: Do Drew and Heather know something we don't know?

I just had an idea, when you mention if the killer lives at the lake or close to it. I wonder if that is true, it could be a signal to the killer that at least one person is on to them, and knows their guilt?

A local story, I live beside a road that was the main artery up and down country during the gold rush back in the 1860's. Across the road, near the creek, back then a traveller was ambushed and murdered for the gold he was carrying in his saddlebags. He was a courier on horseback.

Two men were suspected, and tracked, one drowned trying to get away. The other was tried and hung. Meanwhile, back here on the scene, several of the murdered man's friends strongly suspected the owner of the ranch nearby was behind and/or in on the murder.

So the dead man's friends built a big stone cairn or marker that could be seen from the rancher's front porch and front yard. Every time that rancher that the dead man's friends suspected looked up the road to the hillside, he saw that big stone marker, placed in just the perfect strategic spot by the murdered man's friends.

 

[Reverie]

Most memorials to murder victims are very simple. A marker, a bench, etc. I don't really understand these huge, complex, expensive memorials that are being built. They are starting to seem more like tourist attractions to me.

Agreed! And they certainly are distracting aren't they? Reminds me of that part of the Wizard of Oz where he says 'pay no attention to that man behind the curtain'.
:moo::moo::moo:

 

[Reverie]

I was just using the phrase "uprising" to lighten the mood some, you can't understand why all victims would not be honored in the same way, and I can't understand why people would be mad about honoring two little girls whose story made national headlines.

Other and all victims are worth big memorials, I agree with that, the difference may be in the fact that Lyric and Elizabeth's parents are working behind the scenes to help this happen. Maybe in other victims cases no one is pushing for bigger/better memorials. Just a thought you can agree or not.

Why don't they work harder to catch the perp/s? It seems all but over. Jmo, but I find this disturbing. :moo: Have they been blackmailed, leaving them no alternative? :moo::moo::moo:

 

[Bootsctr]

I just had an idea, when you mention if the killer lives at the lake or close to it. I wonder if that is true, it could be a signal to the killer that at least one person is on to them, and knows their guilt?

A local story, I live beside a road that was the main artery up and down country during the gold rush back in the 1860's. Across the road, near the creek, back then a traveller was ambushed and murdered for the gold he was carrying in his saddlebags. He was a courier on horseback.

Two men were suspected, and tracked, one drowned trying to get away. The other was tried and hung. Meanwhile, back here on the scene, several of the murdered man's friends strongly suspected the owner of the ranch nearby was behind and/or in on the murder.

So the dead man's friends built a big stone cairn or marker that could be seen from the rancher's front porch and front yard. Every time that rancher that the dead man's friends suspected looked up the road to the hillside, he saw that big stone marker, placed in just the perfect strategic spot by the murdered man's friends.

:goodpost: I love your story! Makes total sense to me too! Can you imagine E&L's killer having to look out and see a big white gazebo every day? :cheers:

Another thought I have had too is. . . we all know how twisted a serial killer's mind is. . . he could possibly be patting himself on the back "Look what I did for this community. Because of me Meyers Lake is so much better than it was.

He could also be thinking people have moved on and they are all into this "project" at Meyers Lake and he could be lulled into a false sense of security which could make him very, very vulnerable in slipping up and saying something that puts him in right in LE's line of fire.

Just some random thoughts this morning and wishful thinking! :seeya:

 

[Tennlyn]

But why do some murder victims get huge parks...while others just get a bench?

I would say that it depends on the victim's community. Whatever they feel is best is what is appropriate. It certainly is NOT up to me as I don't live in their community and have no right to complain about how they choose to respond to this tragedy.

Evansdale volunteers got together and are working with the Park Department to implement their plan. Good for them!

:cow:

 

[Reverie]

I would say that it depends on the victim's community. Whatever they feel is best is what is appropriate. It certainly is NOT up to me as I don't live in their community and have no right to complain about how they choose to respond to this tragedy.

Evansdale volunteers got together and are working with the Park Department to implement their plan. Good for them!

:cow:

Is it 'complaining'? Or could it be that some have dared to question the Emperor's New Clothes? :blushing:

 

[Bootsctr]

I posted about succinylcholine because I've read about its use in other murders. It is basically a horse tranquilizer used to immobilize a victim. It has a very short half life so is metabolized quickly and is hard to trace in an autopsy.

Not saying this was used on E and L. I was just answering Shorgirl's post. :seeya:

It is some bad a$$ $*%! At one point in my life I owned a beautiful Tennessee Walking horse. Her name was Black Beauty and she was a sweetheart. She was over 17 hands tall and weighed in around 1,100 to 1,200 pounds. Unfortunately, her pasture was fenced with barbed wire - the bain of this horse person's existance. I went out one morning and Beauty was nickering to me which was not unusual except she was at the gate and she was holding her right front foot up. I could see it was dripping with blood. She was telling mama to help her, she was hurting bad. And she was. She had been cut very deeply and must have just ripped her hoof from the barbed wire that must have somehow gotten wrapped around her foot. There was a LOT OF blood. I didn't have a horse trailer at the time so called my vet who came to tend to her emergently - God Bless Him! It was just me and the vet and his assistance and my hubby! We were holding Beauty when he gave her a shot of horse tranquilizer. The effects were almost immediately. Man! She got all woozy and I expect dizzy and she tried to lay down or fall down, so the four of us were trying to hold up this massive beast who was in a tremendous amount of pain. It sedated her enough and with three of us holding Beauty up the vet was able to stitch up the leg and bandage it. It was an experience! I have hated barbed wire since then. I gave up Black Beauty because I could not afford to build the type of fence that she clearly deserved. Anyway.... succinylcholine is a POTENT drug! I didn't know it had such a short half-life and yeah that could be untraceable if it was used in a murder. . . hard to think about, but there are people that evil unfortunately.

 

[cindersoot]

I think the reason this is being discussed so much because there have been a lot of comments in the news articles from the ones in the community who are not happy about the work being done. Not many attended the town meeting about the renovations to the park, there were also comments from community members saying they would have attended if they had known the meeting was going to happen.

I think it is nice that the family wants a memorial of sorts for the girls. I do feel for the homeowners around the lake that might not be thrilled about the trees being cut down.

Again, I haven't seen a plan for all of the work being done so maybe it's not as extensive as it seems. Although building a bridge to the island seems like a huge, expensive project.

I'm not blaming the family, but what would happen if in 6 months the parents were arrested? Would the community be supportive that there is now a huge memorial that they contributed to, only to find out the parents were responsible for the girls death? Not saying the family is responsible, but can certainly understand why many feel it would be better to wait until after an arrest.

If the parents were convicted of this crime or if the girls lost their lives in the lake, the fact remains that the girls were still murdered and a memorial is for them. A memorial is to memorialize the one that died. So please tell me what makes the difference to what had happened to them and what does that have to do with a memorial to their death?

 

[cindersoot]

Sorry just found this thread... What do you guys think about the idea that this was staged.... The whole thing... Fake. I thought the idea of this being fake INSANE. Until I saw the clip supporting that.


Just trying to make this world a safer place for our children.

What, you think this is a conspiracy? :facepalm: What clip did you see supporting it?

 

[roseofsharon]

Theory: Perp lives close enough to the lake and was able to watch the girls approach the trail, girls stopped at the jetty. Perp was able to view girls at the jetty from one of two docks at Elmer Ave.

Perp owns dog, maybe more than one dog and crossed paths with the girls on the trail while walking his dogs.

Perp took short cut on Maiden Lane with his dogs. Lived close enough to lake to return home and come back to Maiden Lane by car with dogs.

Perp walked down Maiden Lane, approached girls feigning needing help with the dogs to get them home. Told girls not to worry about bikes, it would only take a minute to get dogs home because he lived so close.

Girls enter vehicle with dogs, perp drives home, uses automatic garage door opener, asks one girl to bring dog inside and asks one girl to wait in car for a few minutes to get one dog settled down. Gets one girl subdued, then goes out to garage and tells other girl to come in with other dog, subdues her.

Lives alone, hunter, fisherman. Neighbours perhaps on vacation. No struggle.

IMO - :twocents:

 

[Bootsctr]

Thank you! It will be so great for this summer, I really like it.

Me too Amanda! I want to share a link to your "file" on the girls! You have done an amazing job. I think if someone wanted to investigate E&L's case, your site would be the place to start. Outstanding work! :cheers:

 

[Unique444]

:goodpost: I love your story! Makes total sense to me too! Can you imagine E&L's killer having to look out and see a big white gazebo every day? :cheers:

Another thought I have had too is. . . we all know how twisted a serial killer's mind is. . . he could possibly be patting himself on the back "Look what I did for this community. Because of me Meyers Lake is so much better than it was.

He could also be thinking people have moved on and they are all into this "project" at Meyers Lake and he could be lulled into a false sense of security which could make him very, very vulnerable in slipping up and saying something that puts him in right in LE's line of fire.

Just some random thoughts this morning and wishful thinking! :seeya:

I understand what you are saying but whoever Murdered these two little girls does not give a rat's behind about a stupid park with frilly little flowers. He or She is EVIL beyond words and needs to be treated as such. No one is safe until they are caught.

 

[Bootsctr]

I know they haven't released COD, but I have a feeling that if the ME came back with cause of death being drowning (accidental only) they would have announced the COD and closed the case as an accidental drowning. Someone is involved in this, even if they'd drowned no one would drive their bodies 20 miles away to dump them under the cover of thick brush. They'd have a much better chance of it being ruled a drowning if they just let them be, right there in the lake.

I agree that they are jumping the gun on building the gazebo, as God forbid someone in the family is involved, people may not be so happy about memorializing such a crime.
Either way, anything the community does to recognize the girls deaths I think is a great tribute, as these girls should be remembered. I do however, wish they would wait until the crime is solved, as something as nice as a gazebo and park renovation would be a great way for the community to come together as well as find closure together.

:goodpost: And I agree; however, in a similar case, a mother chose to dispose of her child's body, yet, claimed she drowned. Why not call 911? People make bad choices in bad situations. I know this is not a good comparison - apples to oranges ? I dont think the girls drowned either, but it is a fact no one knows how they died except the killer and "maybe". :truce:

 

[threecrazykids]

:goodpost: And I agree; however, in a similar case, a mother chose to dispose of her child's body, yet, claimed she drowned. Why not call 911? People make bad choices in bad situations. I know this is not a good comparison - apples to oranges ? I dont think the girls drowned either, but it is a fact no one knows how they died except the killer and "maybe". :truce:

sometimes the truth can be stranger than fiction! :floorlaugh: I guess I shouldn't rule out anything. :seeya:

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Well, the one thing I don't agree with is using taxpayer money for these memorials. I don't know if that will happen here, but it did happen in the Jessica Ridgeway case. However, if they do use taxpayer money for Elizabeth and Lyric's memorial, there could be controversy years from now, if the case is "reopened" and the town/county is deciding whether to allocate more money to it (and how much)....you don't want it to be an issue, especially because at that point, there won't be the same emotional investment in the case, and if the killer hasn't struck again, people won't be as enthusiastic about giving more money to the case.