IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32

[Foxfire]

I'm sure many folks on this thread has read Between Good & Evil by Roger L. Depue.. When I think of L,L & K, and other possible victims of MJK, this quote comes to mind;

Retired FBI BAU Profiler Roger L. Depue Quote: 'My work has given me a profound respect for what humans suffer at the hands of evil, and a particular sensitivity for what its victims endure. During every investigation that I participate in, there is always an invisible observer at my shoulder, whose presence I never forget. Regardless of the circumstances of a case, I am always giving voice to its silent victim.

What must this young girl’s final minutes have been like? Did she cry out while he was repeatedly stabbing her, or keep silent, breathing like a wounded animal, watching for the next glint of a blade? Did her thoughts turn to her parents in those final seconds, when she was overwhelmed by the deepest loneliness she had ever known? Did she experience a dissociative response, the sense of drifting upward and watching her own death as if from above?
Or did she sink mercifully into unconsciousness, and feel nothing as her life ebbed away'?

http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/2007/01/between-good-and-evil-by-roger-l.html

 

[SapphireSteel]

While it is horrifying to speculate about sexual predators, we do not know that this is the case for L&L.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I have always thought that RSO's should also have their vehicle information made public. Make, model and year, and plate numbers.

Iowa couldn't even keep track of an RSO, how on earth are they going to track their cars?

No snark intended, just ullhair:

 

[superbee]

O/T

Here's something else I can't understand - parents who molest their children:

A 27-year-old man sexually assaulted his three-year-old daughter 'too many times to remember', during which time his wife would hold the toddler's hand so that it 'wouldn't hurt so much', court documents reveal.

The Michigan man, who is not being named to protect his daughter, has been arraigned on 12 counts of first degree sexual misconduct after it emerged he repeatedly raped the three-year-old, took illicit photographs of her for his own 'sexual gratification' and made her watch child *advertiser censored*.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-wife-held-childs-hand-wouldnt-hurt-much.html[/QUOTE

I know some families who have had terrible dysfunction for generations. I was and am shocked when I find out over the years what went on. Their children have had to try very hard to break the cycle, one friend never married or had children because she wanted no risk to her children from anyone, not to suffer what she went through.

Sadly, when some children have been verbally, physically abused and/or sexually abused, there is a chance they will do the same to others-children or adults or both. They feel great Anger, and if they do to others what was done to them as a child, it waters down their feelings of hurt and guilt they let it happen. Of course it wasn't their fault at all, they were children, and no child should be abused.

Sexual abuse and any abuse of children is so terrible, so wrong, because it warps and destroys lives in each generation. Maybe there is someone here who can explain better some behaviors of those who abuse children, who may have been abused themselves.

 

[B4igo2it]

I have always thought that RSO's should also have their vehicle information made public. Make, model and year, and plate numbers.

This information is published in the Florida RSO case history. We used it in our search for a red truck seen in the area in a missing child case.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Child sexual abuse is common, and becoming more so with the spread of drugs such as meth. A side effect of this particular drug is hypersexuality, which leads previously "normal" people into extreme sexual behaviour. This could be why the land of "Methtown", Iowa, is seeing an apparent increase in assaults on children.

A lot of what we see in the courts is behaviour perpetrated by previous victims onto a new generation, but an increasing amount of deviants are popping up who have no abuse in their backgrounds.

Online *advertiser censored*, drugs, the general sexualisation of children may well be to blame also. We live in a society where our toddlers are placed on catwalks.

What seems certain is that sexual abuse of children is increasing at an alarming rate and a lot of the abuse is occuring at the hands of "new" pedophiles - eg those without a history of being abused themselves.

There is a new breed of drug/money hungry parents who will happily abuse their own children online as long as someone will pay to watch it. This "industry" too is growing with the internet. :sick:

Also, having a history of being abused DOES NOT turn you into an abuser automatically. A great many survivors of childhood abuse go on to treasure their own children and ensure they are never in harms way.

:twocents:

 

[Squeeze]

The same issue is raising its head in Kathlynn's town too. Some want the bridge she was found under renamed.

I'm sorry but I think that is wildly inappropriate and in very poor taste.

Sorry if this has been addressed, but its actually a walking bridge that they wanted to name.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Sorry if this has been addressed, but its actually a walking bridge that they wanted to name.

I'm afraid they're going to run out of bridges before they run out of child murderers.

 

[georger]

Online *advertiser censored*, drugs, the general sexualisation of children may well be to blame also. We live in a society where our toddlers are placed on catwalks.


:twocents:[/quote]

Very well said imho.

It should be self evident but unfortunately it isn't.

 

[cindersoot]

Toddlers on catwalks should be illegal. What is wrong with society is we have lost our morals.

 

[alliemay]

Toddlers on catwalks should be illegal. What is wrong with society is we have lost our morals.

I think part of is is greed and the need to feel that you and your's are better than everyone else. One would have to use common sense and say, hey if I put my child out there like this there is a slim chance something could happen to my child. There are pro's and con's to everything. Some children go on to make a career out of modeling. My problem is with the parents who use makeup and provocative outfits and the judges who allow it. No need for that if the child's personality shines to begin with. Just an opinion.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I think part of is is greed and the need to feel that you and your's are better than everyone else. One would have to use common sense and say, hey if I put my child out there like this there is a slim chance something could happen to my child. There are pro's and con's to everything. Some children go on to make a career out of modeling. My problem is with the parents who use makeup and provocative outfits and the judges who allow it. No need for that if the child's personality shines to begin with. Just an opinion.

Is that really true though? The only children I can think of who were abducted/killed who were in pageants or in modeling were JonBenet, and there was a little girl in Arkansas killed by her mother in a murder-suicide. It seems like it would put them in more danger...but then why don't we have more examples? Do sexual predators really care what a child looks like? I feel like most molestations or abductions are based on opportunity. I really can't think of any case where a predator saw a child modeling in a magazine or competing in a pageant, and then tracked the child down to victimize. Is it possible that sexual predators would avoid abducting a child in pageants or modeling because they know the type of response their disappearance would get?

 

[shoregirl]

It's not the Justice System that is complicit in Kathlynn's murder. :stormingmad:

We have to remember that the Justice System can only administer the laws. The laws are the weak point, not the judges, LE, or lawyers.

Who makes laws? Politicians. It follows then, that the only people who can get things changed are the voters.

Let's hope the voters in Iowa (and everywhere else) begin to be horrified enough to demand stricter sentencing on people who hurt children. As a democracy, it's in the public's hands, not the "justice system".

A society is judged on the way it treats its children. I say we're pretty much all responsible.

I agree with this 100%. We have had ample cases of re-offenders to understand that pedophilia cannot be cured. We need to make hard choices, we need to realize it could be our children, our neighborhoods. If we put these people away forever imagine how the statistics would plummet. It is the nature of the beast that they start small, and work their way up until they are full blown offenders, with flags all along the way. Our children are too important to be politically correct. Any type of crime that is imposed on a helpless child should be incrementally worse and not given the same sentences and plea bargains. The justice system just enforces the laws we are ourselves have voted for.

 

[shoregirl]

I think part of is is greed and the need to feel that you and your's are better than everyone else. One would have to use common sense and say, hey if I put my child out there like this there is a slim chance something could happen to my child. There are pro's and con's to everything. Some children go on to make a career out of modeling. My problem is with the parents who use makeup and provocative outfits and the judges who allow it. No need for that if the child's personality shines to begin with. Just an opinion.

I have three daughters. This whole pageant thing is everything I did not want them to learn as young women. I wanted them to participate in sports and learn the values of fair play and be part of a team. I wanted them to understand that they are strong, capable women who can do anything a man can do and do not need to rely on their looks. Have you seen the prom dresses lately? MY GOD. How did we get here. I had a friend who's daugther is thirteen. She is a beautiful girl. She was in a skin tight dress falling a little below her butt. It was obscene. Her mother says "well she just has that beautiful figure". I suppose at 13 that is true, however, at 13 we don't need to see every curve on body. It is salacious. It is asking for unwanted attention for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Foxfire]

I agree with this 100%. We have had ample cases of re-offenders to understand that pedophilia cannot be cured. We need to make hard choices, we need to realize it could be our children, our neighborhoods. If we put these people away forever imagine how the statistics would plummet. It is the nature of the beast that they start small, and work their way up until they are full blown offenders, with flags all along the way. Our children are too important to be politically correct. Any type of crime that is imposed on a helpless child should be incrementally worse and not given the same sentences and plea bargains. The justice system just enforces the laws we are ourselves have voted for.

Interesting and revealing read, imo..
(snipped & BBM-read more)

http://www.courseweb.uottawa.ca/PSY...ationship between Psychopathy and Deviant.pdf

The Relationship of Deviant Sexual Arousal and Psychopathy in Incest
Offenders, Extrafamilial Child Molesters and Rapists

In sexual offending
populations, the prevalence of psychopathy appears to be particularly high among
offenders designated as “sexually dangerous” by the courts. Psychopathic sexual
offenders show higher recidivism rates, and tend to recidivate more quickly than non
psychopathic sexual offenders.12 Most dangerous of all are the psychopaths sexually
aroused by violence..

Incest perpetrators, tend to be older since, as a group, their sexual offenses are
more opportunistic in nature. They do not offend until after they are married and have
children. On the other hand child molesters, who tend to be more sexually aroused to
children than incest offenders, tend to be more predatory in their offense patterns and
therefore often are younger when they start their sexual offenses.

The findings suggest that there is a significant relationship between deviant sexual
arousal and psychopathy in extra-familial child molesters. Research has established that
deviant arousal is predictive of sexual re-offense among child molesters, and
psychopathy predicts sexual and violent recidivism.

 

[shoregirl]

Interesting and revealing read, imo..
(snipped & BBM-read more)

http://www.courseweb.uottawa.ca/PSY...ationship between Psychopathy and Deviant.pdf

The Relationship of Deviant Sexual Arousal and Psychopathy in Incest
Offenders, Extrafamilial Child Molesters and Rapists

In sexual offending
populations, the prevalence of psychopathy appears to be particularly high among
offenders designated as “sexually dangerous” by the courts. Psychopathic sexual
offenders show higher recidivism rates, and tend to recidivate more quickly than non
psychopathic sexual offenders.12 Most dangerous of all are the psychopaths sexually
aroused by violence..

Incest perpetrators, tend to be older since, as a group, their sexual offenses are
more opportunistic in nature. They do not offend until after they are married and have
children. On the other hand child molesters, who tend to be more sexually aroused to
children than incest offenders, tend to be more predatory in their offense patterns and
therefore often are younger when they start their sexual offenses.

The findings suggest that there is a significant relationship between deviant sexual
arousal and psychopathy in extra-familial child molesters. Research has established that
deviant arousal is predictive of sexual re-offense among child molesters, and
psychopathy predicts sexual and violent recidivism.

Very interesting stuff. Makes perfect sense. I have always thought (as a victim of incest) that is far less about the attraction to a child and much more about the control. Or so it seemed so in my case. It was 40 years ago now and I have developed a rather cllinical view of the whole thing and so it is not painful to discuss. Perhaps this type is not necessarily attracted to children but rather is in a scenario where they have the opportunity and power. However, if one is attracted to children they will never, ever be changed.

 

[alliemay]

Is that really true though? The only children I can think of who were abducted/killed who were in pageants or in modeling were JonBenet, and there was a little girl in Arkansas killed by her mother in a murder-suicide. It seems like it would put them in more danger...but then why don't we have more examples? Do sexual predators really care what a child looks like? I feel like most molestations or abductions are based on opportunity. I really can't think of any case where a predator saw a child modeling in a magazine or competing in a pageant, and then tracked the child down to victimize. Is it possible that sexual predators would avoid abducting a child in pageants or modeling because they know the type of response their disappearance would get?

I don't know if it's really true, that's why at the end of the paragraph I stated that it was just my opinion. I also stated that there could be a SLIM chance. I do agree with you that most times molestations or abductions are all about the opportunity, and yes it's possible they would not chose a child that is already in the limelight. Either way I still do not feel it's a positive thing to make an eight year old look like a 16 year old girl.

 

[BunnyHop]

OT, stay safe everyone, Big storm Derecho will affect millions.

lease:

 

[Snowbunny]

Right now we've got 2 kids missing in SD but they figure their mom took them.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hand...Management/160320247363661?hc_location=stream

 

[Foxfire]

BBM- I had previously posted a msm article that stated Michael Klunder had gun in his possession during the Dayton abductions of Kathlynn and her 12-year-old friend. This article states that it was not a gun but was actually a "lethal weapon" used to euthanize livestock..
MJK; a convicted felon knew that if he was stopped by police in a routine traffic stop with a firearm in his possession. He would be returned to prison. Predators are very calculating...


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/michael-klunder-kidnapping_n_3327303.html
Kathlynn and her 12-year-old friend were kidnapped while walking home from school in Dayton, a rural area about 60 miles north of Des Moines. The two had just stepped off their school bus when the suspect, Michael Klunder, lured them into his truck by offering to pay them for mowing lawns and to give them a ride home so they could ask their parents, Kietzman said.

Instead, he took them to a hog confinement building where he worked and tied the girls' hands with zip ties at an office inside the building. During the kidnapping, Klunder displayed what appeared to be a gun but was actually a "lethal weapon" used to euthanize livestock, Kietzman said.