IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #33

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Foxfire said:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...ulverized-dumped-in-undisclosed-landfill?lite

By Matthew DeLuca, Staff Writer, NBC News
Don't bother looking for macabre mementoes from Ariel Castro's Cleveland house of horrors on eBay.

The remains of the home where Castro held three women against their wills for more than a decade will be trucked to an undisclosed landfill where the planks will be shredded and pulverized before being allowed to rot.

“It’s all being very carefully hauled away to a landfill so no one will have access to that there,” said Joseph Frolik, director of communications for the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor’s Office. “There’s that concern that people might look for sort of ghoulish souvenirs, taking pieces of it.”
<sniped Read More>
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Maybe they ought to let the victims have some of those bricks to throw at the perp for what he put them through. Just a thought although I know it will never happen.
 
Natascha Kampusch, who was kidnapped and held for several as a young girl in Austria, was actually given her kidnappers house as part of a compensation deal.

What's really eerie is apparently she spends a fair bit of time living there.
 
OT and just my opinion:
the mother in the missing Elaina case was put in jail for child endangerment and the ex-bf was put in jail for obstructing justice. I wish more LE would go this path to get to the truth. Now the case has changed to a homicide investigation.
This toddler was in their care and "went missing" which was not believable to most.

http://www.toledonewsnow.com/story/...=default&clipId=9178683#.UgPp9GAd7ds.facebook
 
Sorry if this is old news:

With the search for Elizabeth and Lyric's killer still open, Smock said he can't comment on what might or might not have happened differently had an AMBER Alert been issued July 13, 2012, when the girls disappeared while riding their bikes near Meyers Lake.

In the Evansdale case, there is still no abductor or suspect vehicle information.

http://westdesmoines.patch.com/grou...in-evansdale-cousins-johnny-gosch-kidnappings
 
there sure is a lot of support for Angel's Park.
One thing is for sure, it will serve as a constant reminder to many in the area that this crime (and others) have occurred and hopefully this awareness will help catch those responsible and prevent similar acts. I love the bike trail and that area, I think it is really a neat thing. I had no idea the trail was so long and wide until I watched RW's youtube videos.

Out of curiosity, do ppl cross country ski on the bike trail in the winter season? I think it would be so nice and great exercise. JMO
 
Marilynilpa said:
Sorry if this is old news:

With the search for Elizabeth and Lyric's killer still open, Smock said he can't comment on what might or might not have happened differently had an AMBER Alert been issued July 13, 2012, when the girls disappeared while riding their bikes near Meyers Lake.

In the Evansdale case, there is still no abductor or suspect vehicle information.

http://westdesmoines.patch.com/grou...in-evansdale-cousins-johnny-gosch-kidnappings
Click to expand...

<sniped & BBM>


"Anything that makes it easier to get the word out to the public when a child is missing and may be at risk is a benefit to everyone involved," Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock told Patch via email. "I would support any change that helps protect our children."

With the search for Elizabeth and Lyric's killer still open, Smock said he can't comment on what might or might not have happened differently had an AMBER Alert been issued July 13, 2012, when the girls disappeared while riding their bikes near Meyers Lake.

In the Evansdale case, there is still no abductor or suspect vehicle information.

Local media and neighboring residents were still informed of the disappearance quickly; the difference between an AMBER Alert and a purely local alert is in its breadth. An AMBER Alert is issued across the state via television broadcasters, the National Weather Service, the Department of Transportation and the Iowa Lottery, through which the alert is quickly blasted via T.V., text messages and the Internet.

"Every situation has a different set of circumstances, and whether issuing an Amber Alert would or would not have helped in this case is speculation," Smock said. "Different people will draw different conclusions as to its possible effectiveness. However, in my opinion, if this change relaxes the requirements to use the Amber Alert tool when a child goes missing, then I'm fully in support of it, if circumstances warrant its usage."

http://www.kwwl.com/story/22671327/2013/06/24/evansdale

Authorities on Monday morning said they have three separate witnesses who say they saw a white, older-model, full-size SUV-type vehicle -- similar to a Chevy Suburban or a Ford Bronco -- parked on Arbutus Avenue on July 13.

Investigators want to speak with the person or persons in the vehicle or anyone who has frequented the Meyers Lake area in a similar vehicle.

Two of the witnesses say they saw the white SUV parked between these two bike trail signs.

The other witness told police they saw the vehicle parked near the woods on the east side of the lake -- only a few hundred feet from where the bikes were found.

"There (are) just a lot of reports, a lot of information to read through," said Mike Roehrkasse with the Iowa Department of Criminal Investigation. "Now that there's a little bit of a lull, we are able to start pouring through those reports and make those connections."

"I think, and I hope, that this is kind of the beginning," he added.

All three of the witnesses describe the vehicle as a large and clunky white SUV.

One of the witnesses described the SUV as an old-style boxy suburban.

Two of these witnesses came forward with this information during canvassing. The other tip came in several months later because the person thought someone had already brought this up.

"The one that kind of got the ball rolling was actually several months later. They didn't know if it would be important and that's kind of what we want to stress to the public is any piece of information can be important," said Roehrkasse.
 
BunnyHop said:
I need a translation please. :scared:
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The defense filed a motion for the sentencing to be delayed again. They (defense & prosecution before the judge) will argue that if they didn't already today and the judge will decide to set a new court date for DM's sentencing. Between JS and DM, it's like a ping pong match as who is sentenced first. jmo

Iowa Court Online isn't working very well for me right now to see if there's any updates since my last post. I'm getting error messages so they might be updating or? I'll check in the morning but my morning is two hours later than Iowa's.
 
Something that is occasionally mentioned in this case is wondering if or when Elizabeth and Lyric's cause of death is going to be released.

I thought about that after looking up a detail in the Evelyn Miller case. One of the pieces of evidence against Casey Frederiksen is that he confronted a man Frederiksen said he suspected and asked the man why he stabbed Evelyn in the neck. That injury had been withheld from the public, so how did Frederiksen know?

He told a different man that Evelyn's body was clothed when she was found. Again, a detail that had been withheld from the public. I vaguely remember getting the impression from media stories that Evelyn's body had been found nude. How did Frederiksen know?

I think that something of the same thing may be going on in Elizabeth and Lyric's case. Keeping details secret so that if someone states information they couldn't have gotten except by getting there, well...

It's not a fast strategy but it is a legitimate one.
 
Grainne Dhu said:
Something that is occasionally mentioned in this case is wondering if or when Elizabeth and Lyric's cause of death is going to be released.

I thought about that after looking up a detail in the Evelyn Miller case. One of the pieces of evidence against Casey Frederiksen is that he confronted a man Frederiksen said he suspected and asked the man why he stabbed Evelyn in the neck. That injury had been withheld from the public, so how did Frederiksen know?

He told a different man that Evelyn's body was clothed when she was found. Again, a detail that had been withheld from the public. I vaguely remember getting the impression from media stories that Evelyn's body had been found nude. How did Frederiksen know?

I think that something of the same thing may be going on in Elizabeth and Lyric's case. Keeping details secret so that if someone states information they couldn't have gotten except by getting there, well...

It's not a fast strategy but it is a legitimate one.
Click to expand...

Police have said, since the time that the bodies were found, that some information would not be released in order to protect the integrity of the investigation. What you mention above is an excellent example of what is meant by that statement.

It seems that there are always some posts on forums where investigators are heavily criticized for doing the jobs they were hired to do. That is, they are criticized for protecting the integrity of investigation. I think that criticism speaks volumes about the critics.
 
Originally Posted by Grainne Dhu View Post
Something that is occasionally mentioned in this case is wondering if or when Elizabeth and Lyric's cause of death is going to be released.

I thought about that after looking up a detail in the Evelyn Miller case. One of the pieces of evidence against Casey Frederiksen is that he confronted a man Frederiksen said he suspected and asked the man why he stabbed Evelyn in the neck. That injury had been withheld from the public, so how did Frederiksen know?

He told a different man that Evelyn's body was clothed when she was found. Again, a detail that had been withheld from the public. I vaguely remember getting the impression from media stories that Evelyn's body had been found nude. How did Frederiksen know?

I think that something of the same thing may be going on in Elizabeth and Lyric's case. Keeping details secret so that if someone states information they couldn't have gotten except by getting there, well...

It's not a fast strategy but it is a legitimate one.
Click to expand...

otto said:
Police have said, since the time that the bodies were found, that some information would not be released in order to protect the integrity of the investigation. What you mention above is an excellent example of what is meant by that statement.

It seems that there are always some posts on forums where investigators are heavily criticized for doing the jobs they were hired to do. That is, they are criticized for protecting the integrity of investigation. I think that criticism speaks volumes about the critics.
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Only a couple of items of hold back evidence/info are necessary for successful investigations, interrogations, etc., imo.

Imo, due to advancements in technology; forensics/CSI; FBI CODIS, communications advancements, and other resources that were not available in the past. In the 21st century, to adhere to the close to the vest; silent investigative strategy in abduction investigations only causes innocent victims lives lost and mounting cold cases, imo.

The American public is the most valuable investigative resource in abduction/missing/murdered person cases. Why squander your most valuable resource?

Imo, we may be witnessing the tragic results of this antiquated investigative strategy in L & L and KS & DH's abductions.. The integrity of the investigation is of little importance when the probable sexual predator; MJ Klunder, who is responsible for these abductions, continues to prey on other children, and then commits suicide..imo..

__________________________________________

Ironically, the vehicle identification of Adam Mayes was released by Nancy G or JVM only hours before Alexandria and Kyliyah Bain were rescued on 05/12/2012 and Adam Mayes(MS/TN) killed himself.. LE had searched for them for 13 days without success....until the public received the valuable hold back information..

Missing Tennessee Girls Found Alive, Suspected Killer Adam Mayes Shoots Self Dead

http://abcnews.go.com/US/suspected-killer-adam-mayes-shoots-dead-missing-tennessee/story?id=16319838

Bain Sisters Strength Inspires FBI Agents
http://wreg.com/2012/05/11/bain-sisters-strength-inspires-fbi-agents/

_____________

The mother of Morgan Harrington; Gil Harrington, says it much better than I ever could..

http://www.newsplex.com/home/headli...s-Murphy-218720651.html#.UgPgd9JCJL4.facebook

Gil Harrington Urges Community to Help Find Alexis Murphy

"Someone saw something happening, or has some little piece of information that they are discounting, and they're not letting their intuition come forward. And you want to jog those memories, and tell people in sifting the volumes of tips, any little bit may be critical,"
 
Imo, the red Toyota truck that MJ Klunder was driving during KS & DH's abduction may have been a recent purchase due to the paper license plate. The vehicle/s that he had access too on July 13/2012, should be shared with the public.. This info may jog someone's memory from 13 months ago...imo..


http://www.messengernews.net/page/c...h-area-expands-for-missing-Iowa-girl--15.html

Iowa Department of Public Safety spokeswoman Jessica Lown said investigators have been reviewing Klunder's cellphone records to try to track his movements after the abduction, and have been receiving tips from residents who may have seen his distinct red Toyota pickup truck.

Police released a photo of Klunder's truck, which had a temporary paper license plate on the back window, a Tommy Lift tailgate and a silver toolbox located on the driver's side. Investigators asked anyone who may have seen the truck Monday to come forward.
 
One big problem with releasing too much information, even if it's not critical, is that you put it in the public's mind that things happened a certain way. And that can prejudice a jury pool in a way that influences their decision.

Certain clues that are otherwise innocent can tip off a killer that the investigation is heading their way. We had an incident of that in Boston a couple of years ago where a TV report gave a man time to escape back to Ecuador, where he's unlikely to be extradited.

Possibly the biggest danger though is mob/vigilante action. We had a couple of instances of that during the serial killer investigation here. There was a man's name leaked as a target; somebody decided to inflict justice and beat up on a different guy with the same name. And it turned out the first guy had nothing to do with the case beyond being another customer of some of the murdered women.

Public safety is not as simple as we tend to think it is. Maybe they could have done differently -- but maybe not. It's all second-guessing.
 
Personally I believe LE are running an undercover investigation.

If they've planted someone say, in jail beside a suspect or suspected accomplice, this can take some time.

There's one positive about most criminals - they just can't keep their mouths shut. Eventually, someone will start talking, even if it is just to a cell mate.

For those who say it's taking too long - it took 8 years and an undercover op before Daniel Morcombe's abductor was arrested, even though he was on the Hot List from the second week.

We could be looking at a similar timeframe here, especially if this crime was as well planned as I suspect and there is more than one accomplice.

:twocents:
 
carbuff said:
One big problem with releasing too much information, even if it's not critical, is that you put it in the public's mind that things happened a certain way. And that can prejudice a jury pool in a way that influences their decision.

Certain clues that are otherwise innocent can tip off a killer that the investigation is heading their way. We had an incident of that in Boston a couple of years ago where a TV report gave a man time to escape back to Ecuador, where he's unlikely to be extradited.

Possibly the biggest danger though is mob/vigilante action. We had a couple of instances of that during the serial killer investigation here. There was a man's name leaked as a target; somebody decided to inflict justice and beat up on a different guy with the same name. And it turned out the first guy had nothing to do with the case beyond being another customer of some of the murdered women.

Public safety is not as simple as we tend to think it is. Maybe they could have done differently -- but maybe not. It's all second-guessing.
Click to expand...

RE: One big problem with releasing too much information, even if it's not critical, is that you put it in the public's mind that things happened a certain way.


carbuff, these same results can also occur due to a lack of transparency by investigators. I think it was fairly obvious as to the initial focus by investigators in the L & L investigation. It was days or weeks before investigators concluded that the girls had even been abducted.. Two months after L & L's abduction, investigators stated that they believed them to still be alive.

Twelve months later, a vague description of a vehicle of interest was released by investigators to the public to BOLO. Too little, too late, due to communication & evidence management issues, imo..
L & L's abduction was very high profile and attracted worldwide ms media & social media coverage. This very valuable resource was squandered due to the silence and initial perceived hypothesis by investigators, imo..

Compare the kidnapping of 16 year old Hannah Anderson, by James Lee DiMaggio, in CA, on Monday of this week.. The investigation was conducted very professionally and proactively. The public was kept very well informed and updated by the San Diego Sheriff's Dept. All resources were utilized by SDSO.

The vehicle was located today, due to an aware citizen's tip, in Cascade, Idaho, approximately 1,000 miles north of San Diego, CA and roughly 400 miles from the Canadian border. Victim Hannah Anderson, and abductor James Lee DiMaggio were witnessed deep in the wilderness by horseback riders.

___________________________________

'This is a very urgent plea for help, complete with adequate information provided by the CA investigative agency to insure success, imo'..

NATIONWIDE AMBER ALERT! SUSPECT CONSIDERED "VERY DANGEROUS", MAY HAVE RIGGED CAR WITH EXPLOSIVES! #AmberAlert for California, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Search extends to Mexico and Canada! SHARE!

Amber Alert Issued For 2 Children After Remains Of Mother & Child Found In Suspect&#8217;s Burned Home Possibly En Route To #Texas or #Canada

DiMaggio and Anderson are said to have had a close platonic relationship. He is now wanted for murder and arson.

&#8220;We need the public&#8217;s help in locating these people,&#8221; Lt. Glenn Giannantorio said. &#8220;We would definitely like to locate the children. We believe that if they are with Mr. DiMaggio, that they in danger.&#8221;

The Amber Alert was issued after the children&#8217;s grandparents reported them missing.

Hannah is described as having blonde hair and blue eyes. She is 5 feet 7 inches tall and weighs about 115 pounds.

Ethan is described as 4 feet 11 inches tall, weighing about 65 pounds with sandy blonde hair.

DiMaggio, 40, is described as a White male with brown hair, 5 feet 9 inches tall and weighing about 150 pounds.

Authorities believe DiMaggio may be driving a four-door, 2013 Blue Nissan Versa with the California license plate number 6WCU986. They believe he may be headed to Texas or Canada.

Anyone who sees DiMaggio or the children should call 911 immediately.

#URGENT #AmberAlert #Emergency #Abducted #California #SanDiego #Imperial #abduction Share this flier right away at https://www.facebook.com/missingcases/like

MAP - San Diego County: http://goo.gl/maps/l1Mk7

MAP - Imperial County: http://goo.gl/maps/FRWNL

MAP - Boulevard, California: http://goo.gl/maps/U7UWE

SOURCE(s): http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/AmberExternalFCServlet?act=retAmberCase&amberId=11325 and http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013...ains-of-mother-found-in-suspects-burned-home/
 
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