IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #35

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Marilynilpa said:
It seems like most people nowadays have a smart phone with them - why not snap a quick picture of the vehicle and the license plate? It might not be a perfect picture, but it would probably be more helpful then an eye-witness description. JMO.
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My smartphone is not the quickest on the draw. Or maybe that's me......
 
CHERIE.T said:
:dramaqueen:

Some think it's OKAY to expect LE to keep the general public, especially locals, abreast of information during an investigation. Doesn't mean people expect LE to reveal every detail.. that's ignorant.
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I have only seen one person commenting with criticism, throughout this case, about investigators not doing enough in terms of releasing investigative details. It is not a local person.

Investigators have done an amazing job. They called in the FBI the afternoon that the children were discovered missing, shortly after 4 PM on July 13. They had planes in the air and ground searches. They found nothing. They have excluded the family and located the bodies. An island in the middle of a leech infested lake has been turned into a memorial. I hope that environmental sustainability concerns were examined and that the Island will soon be restored to a healthy environmental habitat.

No one expects investigators to disclose information that is critical to the investigation, such as information that only the murderer would know. The criticism seems unwarranted.

We now know that the children were probably removed from the location of their bikes well before 4 PM, as they were last seen in the area around 1 PM. Their bodies were found in a ditch, about 20 feet off the path in an abandoned provincial park/hunting ground. Apparently they were found by someone that was somehow driven to find them.

What we still don't know is why the children's bikes were at the sewage drainage gate on the leech infested lake. Obviously they weren't going swimming at the sewer pipe in the dirty lake, but it was still drained as investigators did everything that should be done ... even if it was only to rule out the obvious.
 
otto said:
I have only seen one person commenting with criticism, throughout this case, about investigators not doing enough in terms of releasing investigative details. It is not a local person.

Investigators have done an amazing job. They called in the FBI the afternoon that the children were discovered missing, shortly after 4 PM on July 13. They had planes in the air and ground searches. They found nothing. They have excluded the family and located the bodies. An island in the middle of a leech infested lake has been turned into a memorial. I hope that environmental sustainability concerns were examined and that the Island will soon be restored to a healthy environmental habitat.

No one expects investigators to disclose information that is critical to the investigation, such as information that only the murderer would know. The criticism seems unwarranted.

We now know that the children were probably removed from the location of their bikes well before 4 PM, as they were last seen in the area around 1 PM. Their bodies were found in a ditch, about 20 feet off the path in an abandoned provincial park/hunting ground. Apparently they were found by someone that was somehow driven to find them.

What we still don't know is why the children's bikes were at the sewage drainage gate on the leech infested lake. Obviously they weren't going swimming at the sewer pipe in the dirty lake, but it was still drained as investigators did everything that should be done ... even if it was only to rule out the obvious.
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RE: Their bodies were found in a ditch
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otto, is this new info that the bodies were found in a ditch, from an ms media article or is this new info?
 
FWIW, I remember a video of the officers going down a short slope deeper than a ditch, to and from the bodies. It was probably local news online. It maybe inclined about 20 feet? News was sketchy then though.

Foxfire, Hope you are doing well. :seeya: You sated in your post above, that the family has been cleared. I can't find a MSM article other than NG on HLN. . Did LE clear the family? My memory fails me who said it besides Abben or Breault? tia

Relatives say investigators were tough on Elizabeth and Lyric’s family, especially the men, in the beginning. But since then they have been completely cleared by polygraphs and are not persons of interest or suspects.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/10/22/whatever-happened-elizabeth-collins-lyric-cook
 
Foxfire said:
otto, is this new info that the bodies were found in a ditch, from an ms media article or is this new info?
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Apologies for sloppy language. No. They were not found in a ditch. They were found about 18 feet (anyone know the exact dimension) off the hunting path, in a depression on the ground. They were up to 50 feet apart from each other, although that is probably an exaggeration. The area where they were found normally floods in the Spring/Summer, so fortunately they were found in December. The fifth?

I'll look for the photos and repost.
 
I would have to agree otto - it's not a ditch. But it is a low lying flat of land well off the beaten path.

I don't even have the link to the thread of the videos I posted of the actual walk from the turnabout to the area the bodies were found, but they are here somwhere. :floorlaugh:

The Wapsi was almost non-existent that year due to drought so I personally believe if this person REALLY knew anything about the Wapsi they likely knew that in that particular year the chances of them being washed away was highly unlikely. HOWEVER, that area is typically very overgrown with no walking path to where the bodies were found and that person may have well been counting more on that than the washing away.

I think in the videos I walked off the distance between the two wreaths that had been placed there - but of course that may or may not be a TRUE representation of where the bodies were found. Everything in the area had been flattened due to the investigation so the representation of how thick with growth and vegetation is not displayed either.

IF this person hauled the girls in already deceased it was a pretty hefty task that would have taken more than what a 2 minute dump along a gravel road would take. Why make such an effort to hide? They don't appear to have been in any hurry with how the disposal was done. It was a LONG walk back to where the girls were found...and to make that trip twice would take some time.

Now, if they were taken there alive? Well then - that may not have taken nearly as long. Just leave them where they fall and walk out. :(
 
threecrazykids said:
I would have to agree otto - it's not a ditch. But it is a low lying flat of land well off the beaten path.

I don't even have the link to the thread of the videos I posted of the actual walk from the turnabout to the area the bodies were found, but they are here somwhere. :floorlaugh:

The Wapsi was almost non-existent that year due to drought so I personally believe if this person REALLY knew anything about the Wapsi they likely knew that in that particular year the chances of them being washed away was highly unlikely. HOWEVER, that area is typically very overgrown with no walking path to where the bodies were found and that person may have well been counting more on that than the washing away.

I think in the videos I walked off the distance between the two wreaths that had been placed there - but of course that may or may not be a TRUE representation of where the bodies were found. Everything in the area had been flattened due to the investigation so the representation of how thick with growth and vegetation is not displayed either.

IF this person hauled the girls in already deceased it was a pretty hefty task that would have taken more than what a 2 minute dump along a gravel road would take. Why make such an effort to hide? They don't appear to have been in any hurry with how the disposal was done. It was a LONG walk back to where the girls were found...and to make that trip twice would take some time.

Now, if they were taken there alive? Well then - that may not have taken nearly as long. Just leave them where they fall and walk out. :(
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RE: Now, if they were taken there alive?
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If my memory is correct, flip flops were found. If correct, this would indicate that they walked to the location, imo..
 
threecrazykids said:
I would have to agree otto - it's not a ditch. But it is a low lying flat of land well off the beaten path.

I don't even have the link to the thread of the videos I posted of the actual walk from the turnabout to the area the bodies were found, but they are here somwhere. :floorlaugh:

The Wapsi was almost non-existent that year due to drought so I personally believe if this person REALLY knew anything about the Wapsi they likely knew that in that particular year the chances of them being washed away was highly unlikely. HOWEVER, that area is typically very overgrown with no walking path to where the bodies were found and that person may have well been counting more on that than the washing away.

I think in the videos I walked off the distance between the two wreaths that had been placed there - but of course that may or may not be a TRUE representation of where the bodies were found. Everything in the area had been flattened due to the investigation so the representation of how thick with growth and vegetation is not displayed either.

IF this person hauled the girls in already deceased it was a pretty hefty task that would have taken more than what a 2 minute dump along a gravel road would take. Why make such an effort to hide? They don't appear to have been in any hurry with how the disposal was done. It was a LONG walk back to where the girls were found...and to make that trip twice would take some time.

Now, if they were taken there alive? Well then - that may not have taken nearly as long. Just leave them where they fall and walk out. :(
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IMO the girls were walked in, then killed. Or perhaps one girl was carried in while the other was walked in. In any event, I feel the perp(s) already knew where he was going to leave the girls, it wasn't just happenstance. There was careful planning. JMO.
 
I just can't seem to get this piece of this puzzle out of my head:

Taken from a park
Found in a park

Coincidence? Possibly.

Likelihood that it was coincidence? Very small, IMO.
 
Assuming there was no flooding and the girls were intact, I believe they walked in, most likely at the same time one perp per girl.

The other scenario is (apologies) a hunting type crime, ie let go and shot while running.

The assumption I am making here is that they werent found tied up in any way...this indicates arms length type execution to me, clean and efficient - gunshot from a distance.

Whoever did it convinced themselves it was a necessary act. God alone knows why.
This wasnt a thrill kill to me, sexual or random. I strongly feel the girls knew their abductors and may never have even seen it coming. They were told they were getting a treat and died excited and happy.

I wish Le would release COD. I think they would have if they felt a murdering monster was snatching up children.
 
and importantly, it is doubtful a stranger would just happen to end up at 7 Bs.

Pretty much, this area is known to locals (primarily hunters and fisherman) ... and that is who found the remains.

Another senseless, sad situation!
 
What type of wildlife are you permitted to hunt in early December ... just curious?
 
SapphireSteel said:
Assuming there was no flooding and the girls were intact, I believe they walked in, most likely at the same time one perp per girl.

The other scenario is (apologies) a hunting type crime, ie let go and shot while running.

The assumption I am making here is that they werent found tied up in any way...this indicates arms length type execution to me, clean and efficient - gunshot from a distance.

Whoever did it convinced themselves it was a necessary act. God alone knows why.
This wasnt a thrill kill to me, sexual or random. I strongly feel the girls knew their abductors and may never have even seen it coming. They were told they were getting a treat and died excited and happy.

I wish Le would release COD. I think they would have if they felt a murdering monster was snatching up children.
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Do you have a link where they weren't found tied up in any way? I'm sorry but I have never read anything that was ever released like that from LE. Thank you in advance.
 
This article is O/T, but there is something in it that struck a chord:

A man lured two brothers, ages 5 and 8, from their yard in south Mississippi and took them to his camper trailer, where he sexually abused them and slashed the older boy’s throat, authorities said Thursday.

[snip]

Shane Tucker, chief deputy with Pearl River County sheriff’s department, said Smith is a cousin of the boys’ father’s live-in girlfriend. He said Smith had not been around the boys much, but was familiar with them, and lured them away while they played in the yard.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...s-kill-escape-article-1.1553422#ixzz2o15Rt5Bg

BBM

Something similar could have occurred with Lyric and Elizabeth - someone they didn't know well but were familiar with approached them, and they went with him/her. Could have been someone from church, the neighborhood, a friend's parent, someone a family member knew, etc. It's been my theory for quite some time that the girls went willingly with someone known to them. JMO.
 
Snowbunny said:
Do you have a link where they weren't found tied up in any way? I'm sorry but I have never read anything that was ever released like that from LE. Thank you in advance.
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SS said her assumption was the girls were not tied up in any way. IMO she wasn't stating it as fact.

SS, please correct me if I'm the one who is misunderstanding you. It wouldn't be the first time!:notgood:
 
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