IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #36

[dotr]

So the girls left the house just after noon, within approx 11 minutes they were riding away from the lake.. Seems like they were nabbed towards the ride home and bikes dropped off at Meyers lake, because perp wanted to make it look like that is where they went missing, imo. The perp would not necessarily know that they were not supposed to go to the lake.
Maybe they were followed after they initially left home, was perp keeping an eye on G.mom's house? imo.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...-collins-lyric/story?id=16850676#.UBAlKzFYv32

" Although the girls only look like a blur as they cross the frame on their bicycles in the video, and the footage of the two girls lasts only seconds, investigators say they now are analyzing it for any clues that could lead to information about the girls whose bicycles were later recovered on a trail by nearby Meyers Lake in Evansdale, Iowa.

"It looked kind of grainy, I mean just zoom they were by the thing and so it's very hard to really make much out of the thing," Black Hawk County Chief Deputy Rick Abben said. "The girls were less than a block from the house when this camera captured them riding by, important to note they were riding away from Meyers Lake."

The video also matches the police timeline. Investigators say the girls left the home to ride their bikes shortly after noon July 13. The camera's clock shows it was 12:11 p.m. when they rode by."

rbbm.

 

[watcher9]

Thanks for bringing this back up.

I know it has been discussed in detail early in the case, but maybe we can reexamine this with fresh eyes.
The girls were riding their bikes in the morning, came in for a drink which they didn't drink, and went back out riding their bikes. Did the camera catch them riding in the morning also or just at that one time after noon? I wonder what other info may have been on that camera that has not be released?

Since LE especially noted they were riding "away" from the lake, I wonder why he felt it was important? When all the maps were made back then, it was found that the girls could have reached the lake going either direction.

No witnesses at all that whole day? Well, the guys behind the grocery store supposedly had a story to tell. Why was it dismissed so fast or is that evidence that is kept hidden?

It's one thing for LE to keep evidence close to their vest when working a case, but after all this time, maybe a little more info would trigger someone's memory if it's not too late.

Side note - I thought I had posted this earlier today, but tonight it wasn't here. First time I have tried the auto saved button and it was still there so I didn't have to retype it all. I sure like that button now!

 

[nikb]

Thanks for bringing this back up.

I know it has been discussed in detail early in the case, but maybe we can reexamine this with fresh eyes.
The girls were riding their bikes in the morning, came in for a drink which they didn't drink, and went back out riding their bikes. Did the camera catch them riding in the morning also or just at that one time after noon? I wonder what other info may have been on that camera that has not be released?

Since LE especially noted they were riding "away" from the lake, I wonder why he felt it was important? When all the maps were made back then, it was found that the girls could have reached the lake going either direction.

No witnesses at all that whole day? Well, the guys behind the grocery store supposedly had a story to tell. Why was it dismissed so fast or is that evidence that is kept hidden?

It's one thing for LE to keep evidence close to their vest when working a case, but after all this time, maybe a little more info would trigger someone's memory if it's not too late.

Side note - I thought I had posted this earlier today, but tonight it wasn't here. First time I have tried the auto saved button and it was still there so I didn't have to retype it all. I sure like that button now!

Good questions Watcher9. I always thought it was so strange that they said the girls were riding "away from the lake" when the maps looked like they could have been going to the lake, away from it, or just around it. I wonder if they did have other unreleased video that made it more clear which direction they were going. I guess it might not matter now, but maybe it does. I can't believe whoever did this hasn't been found and arrested yet.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I check the girls thread all the time, I don't always have anything to say, but think of them often.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Why would the girls ride their bikes to the lake knowing grandma wanted them home in a short time? This is one of many things I keep trying to figure out.

I think they may have had a prearranged meeting with someone at the lake and thought they could make it back in time.

There are just so many questions.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I check the girls thread all the time, I don't always have anything to say, but think of them often.

Me, too.

 

[Confusion]

I know this is unlikely, but I've been trying to think of something I can add that I haven't already said. I know many people believe the bikes were planted there, and many think they weren't because the dogs did seem to follow a scent for a short time. Is it possible that whoever took them used a shirt or something of theirs wrapped around their hands to move the bikes? That would prevent accidentally leaving their own DNA on them, and taking the item back to the vehicle might have left enough of a scent for the dogs to pick up. Is that at all possible? TIA

 

[NWLady]

I still am not convinced that it is Elizabeth and Lyric on those bikes in that surveillance video. I have watched it over and over and I admit I am not very technical savvy and do not know any ways of making the video appear better and/or enlarge it or enhance etc., but I still for some reason am not convinced it is the girls. It appears to me to be two young males, most likely teens, and I could swear that one appears to not even have a shirt on. But this is all JMO.

It's just so sad that no arrests have been made in this case and there's been no justice for these two young girls whose lives were taken. I try to keep a positive attitude/outlook in hopes that an arrest(s) will eventually be made but it seems to me that it has gone cold. I do not think it was a stranger, I do not think it was sexually motivated, I do feel the girls knew who their abductor/killer(s) were and I feel their lives were taken because of either; A) Something they knew and/or saw and they had to be silenced. B) They possibly were the victims of some type of abuse and either they threatened to tell and/or the person responsible lost their temper and harmed them/killed them. C) Their deaths brought some type of monetary benefit to those involved. D) All of the above.
I might also add that I feel the person(s) involved has shown a great decline in overall health and well-being since the girls death. This is all JMO and I could be completely wrong about all of my ideas/thoughts but that is how I feel at this time. If I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it. I do feel LE has a very good idea of who is responsible and they do not feel anyone else is in danger because the girls were targeted.

 

[nikb]

I know this is unlikely, but I've been trying to think of something I can add that I haven't already said. I know many people believe the bikes were planted there, and many think they weren't because the dogs did seem to follow a scent for a short time. Is it possible that whoever took them used a shirt or something of theirs wrapped around their hands to move the bikes? That would prevent accidentally leaving their own DNA on them, and taking the item back to the vehicle might have left enough of a scent for the dogs to pick up. Is that at all possible? TIA

I don't personally think the bikes were planted. I've always thought that seemed way too complicated. I hadn't thought about someone using one of the girls' shirts to move the bikes, though. That's an interesting thought (and IMO definitely possible).

 

[iamnotagolem]

I've always wondered how closely some things were looked at in this case. There is one person who still kind of bugs me, I'd love to know how well he was investigated.

I've been on the fence on whether the bikes were staged or not. I wonder what the girl's riding route looked like, I pulled up the map and wonder if they girls would go over to the trail, ride south a bit, then hop on Wema or East End head back west then back north on Forest river road. It'd make a nice little loop and not put them too far from home. I also wonder if the girls were seen on video more than just once, they'd have to be, right?

Did anything ever come of the surveillance from the Casey's store?

 

[Squeeze]

There are more direct routes to the lake, besides River Forest and the other street (Evans?). I also think there probably are one or two unsavory characters - more than likely - who live along there that may have followed them. So many possibilities. No, I don't think anything came of the Caseys video.

 

[threecrazykids]

I don't personally think the bikes were planted. I've always thought that seemed way too complicated. I hadn't thought about someone using one of the girls' shirts to move the bikes, though. That's an interesting thought (and IMO definitely possible).

My hamster wheel of thoughts on this subject:

1. LE wasn't able to get a good enough sample of prints/DNA from the bikes.
2. Because we were told that the bikes had been moved from where TG had seen them (he states he swerved around them on the bike path - they were laying down -yet they were found leaned up against the fence by LE) - that may throw a kink in proving the case IF there happened to be more than 1 pair of "foreign" prints. The defense is going to say that this "other person" COULD be the person who harmed the girls.
3. LE actually WAS able to get a print/DNA - however, this person hasn't been charged with a crime that warrants their info in CODIS for a match so they aren't able to know who the DNA/prints belong to.
4. The only prints/DNA found were familial and could be easily explained as to why those prints would be on the bikes and not prove anything as far as harming the girls.

 

[iamnotagolem]

There are more direct routes to the lake, besides River Forest and the other street (Evans?). I also think there probably are one or two unsavory characters - more than likely - who live along there that may have followed them. So many possibilities. No, I don't think anything came of the Caseys video.

Sorry I meant in general where the girls typically rode their bikes if they didn't ride to the lake. I was trying to look at possible loops they could have taken and where they could have been abducted if their bikes were staged.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I don't think the bikes were staged, because IMO that would have been an unnecessary risk. I think the person(s) who took the girls gave them a reasonable explanation for leaving the bikes behind.

But one thing that has always bugged me is Lizzie's purse being left behind. If the bikes weren't staged, what reason could there be for Lizzie leaving her purse? That doesn't seem like something a little girl would do.

See, it's this kind of thing that keeps me wondering if my theory is right.

 

[nikb]

I don't think the bikes were staged, because IMO that would have been an unnecessary risk. I think the person(s) who took the girls gave them a reasonable explanation for leaving the bikes behind.

But one thing that has always bugged me is Lizzie's purse being left behind. If the bikes weren't staged, what reason could there be for Lizzie leaving her purse? That doesn't seem like something a little girl would do.

See, it's this kind of thing that keeps me wondering if my theory is right.

True, didn't think about the risk factor - but yes it seems like that would be an awful lot of extra risk. I think they were probably grabbed pretty quickly and the perp(s) just took off with them. ETA: or got in the vehicle on their own pretty quickly.

As far as Lizzie's purse I think it really depends so much on the kid. I was never a "purse girl" so to speak and even as an adult I've accidentally left it behind before (yeah, not good, but I just don't think about it). My sister in law, on the other hand, is well known for always having a purse with her, ever since she was a little kid. I'm curious what Lizzie's normal habits were.

 

[Marilynilpa]

True, didn't think about the risk factor - but yes it seems like that would be an awful lot of extra risk. I think they were probably grabbed pretty quickly and the perp(s) just took off with them. ETA: or got in the vehicle on their own pretty quickly.

As far as Lizzie's purse I think it really depends so much on the kid. I was never a "purse girl" so to speak and even as an adult I've accidentally left it behind before (yeah, not good, but I just don't think about it). My sister in law, on the other hand, is well known for always having a purse with her, ever since she was a little kid. I'm curious what Lizzie's normal habits were.

IIRC, some mention was made that Lizzie took her purse everywhere. I'll have to go back and check where I read that.

So, if she was the kind of girl who always took her purse then I would think she was taken so quickly she left it behind. But that isn't in keeping with my theory that the girls met someone they knew and went willingly with them. If the girls went willingly, it seems Lizzie would have taken her purse rather than leaving it behind. JMO.

Yikes, the more I go over the facts, the more I confuse myself.

 

[nikb]

IIRC, some mention was made that Lizzie took her purse everywhere. I'll have to go back and check where I read that.

So, if she was the kind of girl who always took her purse then I would think she was taken so quickly she left it behind. But that isn't in keeping with my theory that the girls met someone they knew and went willingly with them. If the girls went willingly, it seems Lizzie would have taken her purse rather than leaving it behind. JMO.

Yikes, the more I go over the facts, the more I confuse myself.

That's a really good point. If she was a "purse girl" it's hard to believe she would leave it willingly.

I don't have any super strong theories but I've thought before that they probably went with someone they knew (or thought they knew). Now I'm rethinking that... from the little bit we do know, not much really points to leaving willingly. Ugh. I think I'm confusing myself now too.

 

[carbuff]

As far as the risk goes, killers don't think the same way as you and I do. What seems like an "unnecessary risk" to us might just be part of the thrill of the chase to them.

 

[nikb]

As far as the risk goes, killers don't think the same way as you and I do. What seems like an "unnecessary risk" to us might just be part of the thrill of the chase to them.

Very good point. I'm usually pretty glad I can't and don't think like they do.

 

[Marilynilpa]

As far as the risk goes, killers don't think the same way as you and I do. What seems like an "unnecessary risk" to us might just be part of the thrill of the chase to them.

That's true.

My theory is that this was carefully planned in advance by someone known to one or both families. IMO that would include taking as few risks as possible.

But if this was a random person. I agree that the risk might have been part of the thrill.