Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

[Grainne Dhu]

I know this may not be the majority opinion here, but I feel that although they followed the protocol of what to do in the case of a missing child, I didn't get the feeling (initially anyway) LE thought it was just a random kidnapping.

I really felt at the beginning that while they were trying to keep everything close to the vest, their real focus was a narrow scope. From the taking of Dan and Misty's cell phone, to the beating down of the hotel door in the middle of the night - flat out accusing Dan of knowing what happened to the girls, to the subpoena of Misty's interview with KWWL, to the requests of multiple lie detector tests, to the tightening up of Dan's supervision, to the flat out lying to the public that "all RSO's have been cleared" within 48 hrs (later finding out they were still interviewing them a week later), to denying knowledge of witnesses (TG), to the ambush of the house a block from where Wylma lived, etc...the list goes on.

Do I think they were keeping open the "possibility" that a random perp had taken the girls? Absolutely. And publicly they were doing all the "right" things that LE should do in the case of a missing child. But do I think that they really thought they were going to find the girls stuffed in the trunk of someone's vehicle at a checkpoint? Not for one second.

In my opinion, I think they had their faces sniffing down the "obvious" rabbit hole - and truly, honestly felt that is where the strongest lead was - that the girls were not really "missing" but rather "conveniently missing". I have ZERO facts to back this up, this is just what MY impression was early on.

I feel that over time that focus shifted...after months of waiting and searching through all of these thousands of "leads" they reportedly receive. The focus then shifted to the white SUV, the paddleboat rider, the location of Seven Bridges, etc...slowly shifting the focus to a much broader scope.

Drew has made it clear via his interviews that he feels this is a sex offender, period. Heather? Not so much. She maintains her belief that it was, indeed, tied somehow to drugs and Misty and Dan's connection to that world.

But I think straight out the shoot...the most obvious, the most likely, the BEST possible outcome, would have been that it WAS tied to drugs (aka Dan and Misty) and their disappearance was no more than an attempt to maintain freedom (per Dan's words of "I'm not ready to go to jail").

And that is why I personally think they commented that they had reason to believe the girls were still alive. I know others may not agree...that is just how I felt at the beginning. I think differently now, but at the time of that comment I really felt they thought they were getting close to finding out this was all a big sham and the girls weren't in danger.

SBM & BBM

As to accusing Dan of knowing what happened to the girls? That's SOP in all interrogations except ones in which the person they are talking to is clearly innocent. Multiple lie detector tests doesn't surprise me either--who wouldn't have a good chance at failing a polygraph when their child is missing? Those who support the use of this fallacious technology often say "parents should take the polygraph right away so the police can rule them out and concentrate on finding their children." They conveniently ignore the issue that if a factually innocent parent like Steve Groene fails the polygraph, it causes LE to concentrate efforts on that parent, which diverts LE from other investigative leads.

When I read what you wrote above, I did start thinking maybe LE was concentrated too much on Dan and Misty. If they did so because they failed polygraphs, then that's yet another example of investigations being pulled off track by junk science.

I don't know. My impression from within a few days of the disappearance was that the girls were already dead and it was actually a recovery effort rather than a rescue mission. I wish I hadn't been correct, though.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I know that trauma has away of scattering thoughts and making things difficult to recall. Fortunately or unfortunately God has blessed me with a strong sense of recall at least in terms of human facial recognition.
A little OT comment. I worked for a major electronic retailer for almost 30 years as a salesman and manager. In sales an important sales tool is to observe as much information or detail about a person in your brief encounter and introduction. Observing and listening could be a key to additional sales opportunities. One day a gentleman came into the store. He wore an expensive suit and expensive shoes. He had a purchase order "from the state to purchase a police scanner and some additional small items. I saw the gentleman maybe 3 or 4 minutes because the Store Manager was the person who was actually handling the sale. I was busy helping our other customers being that this was a Saturday afternoon and usually a busy time for us. The customer finished with his purchase and left the store. About 6-8 weeks later we had a police detective come to the store and he wanted us to idea a potential suspect. The detective showed their lineup and I was the one to identify the prep not my Manager who had spent considerable amounts of time with him. This gentleman had been very busy. He had used fraudulent PO#'s to secure about 500 K dollars worth of stuff from all over the area. There are people who do have the ability to recall faces and events pretty accurately the question becomes when trauma sets in or is a part of the equation. The human emotional experience usually doesn't like to dwell on negative things and painful or fearful events even less so.

There are so many of these cases like Lyric and Lizzy and Celina Cass and Hailey Dunn and so many other cases were there is some comfort for the families knowing that their loved one is not suffering and they have been returned to them. But justice has not been served because nobody has been arrested and or convicted for taking these innocent young girls lives.

As difficult as it is for us as a curious and well meaning group advocating justice for these victims and their families the wheels of justice just go so exceedingly slow. But even the smallest of clues can make a difference. Another little sidebar. I had a cousin who had not been seen or heard from since 1999. He was on the Unidentified boards on WS. It was determined that he had died in Oct of 1999 and his human remains were setting in storage in a medical examiners office in Pinellas County Florida. An old school friend had save a letter that my cousin Fletcher had written him about 19 years earlier. The friend who happened to be a writer for the Tampa Bay Hearld opened his letters from the end. So the ME office was able to extract DNA from the saliva that Fletcher used when he sealed the letter in the middle. Who would have thought that something so insignificant in the order of the universe would help us to unlock the mystery of my cousin after all these years.

I'm sorry about your cousin, Figbarinc. That is amazing about how the saved letter confirmed his ID.

I think I am your opposite. I have great difficulty in remembering faces and even greater difficulty in identifying a real person in a photograph. Somehow I have great difficulty in making that 2D to 3D leap.

Maybe it's because I've been concussed so many times? Dark humour, that, because I really have had multiple concussions and have sustained brain damage.

 

[alliemay]

I also feel that the focus in the beginning was that the children were kidnapped because of drugs. That could be why FBI made the BOLD statement that they felt the girls were alive, really though I am sort of shocked any agency could make this assumption without physical proof.

IIRC, I think there was also something about a message on one of the parents phones where they thought the message was sent after the girls went missing when in fact if was prior.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Elizabeth & Lyric Case Archive:

http://s296.photobucket.com/user/cr...ns - Lyric Cook-Morrissey -IA-?sort=6&page=1

 

[Confusion]

I think part of the reason the reason they concentrated on Misty and Dan so much in the beginning was that they didn't pass the polygraphs. Whether they failed them or the results were inconclusive, I believe it was caused by their use of drugs. MOO

 

[Bootsctr]

Elizabeth & Lyric Case Archive:

http://s296.photobucket.com/user/cr...ns - Lyric Cook-Morrissey -IA-?sort=6&page=1

I :loveyou: your site! :gthanks: :yourock:

 

[Bootsctr]

I think part of the reason the reason they concentrated on Misty and Dan so much in the beginning was that they didn't pass the polygraphs. Whether they failed them or the results were inconclusive, I believe it was caused by their use of drugs. MOO

Yes, the results can be skewed by drug use, or sometimes it depends on the person who gives the polygraph. I'm just glad they're not admissible in court. I was watching an ID program regarding the murder of a young woman and the profiler they brought in gave a VERY, VERY detailed profile of the killer down to what type of car he would driving (VW), the color, and the fact that he would be able to pass a polygraph. Indeed, in the end the killer had taken the polygraph and passed it. This was not Ted Bundy, but I believe Bundy did pass a polygraph and so did Gary Ridgeway. I imagine Joseph Duncan could have passed a polygraph too.

AFAIR, Misty took two. She was told she failed the first one and she agreed to take one more test. I don't think they released the results. :moo:

 

[Bootsctr]

I also feel that the focus in the beginning was that the children were kidnapped because of drugs. That could be why FBI made the BOLD statement that they felt the girls were alive, really though I am sort of shocked any agency could make this assumption without physical proof.

IIRC, I think there was also something about a message on one of the parents phones where they thought the message was sent after the girls went missing when in fact if was prior.

It was Drew I believe who found a message on his from Lizzy that was old.

I do remember they brought a POI pretty quickly from some CCTV from a convenience store that was driving a white van - so LE was doing their jobs in viewing other footage around town for clues and suspects. The guy was cleared, but it is interesting that we are looking for a white vehicle... I guess.

 

[Figbarinc]

I had an early interest in Law Enforcement/FBI agent between the ages of 10-14. I guess I should have followed up on that desire. Somehow I got confused about the qualifications for the FBI. I thought that it required a law degree. I didn't have enough confidence in my scholastic aptitude for that nor felt I was financial able to do that either.
So true crime, the science of forensic study, criminal psychology and criminal behavior has always interested me. I think that interest would be evidence of why I joined WS in the first place. I monitored several websites in the beginning and I felt that WS was the most organized and did the best job of protecting the interest of the victims and their families. The Brooke Bennett case brought me here and I have been here every since.

Well given all the background stuff I want to make an observation. I think there is a certain amount of bias in public safety or the various LEO entities. IMHO the investigation is normally going to be focused on the immediate or close relatives first. They usually get eliminated first so the investigations can move forward. When one family group is already front and center because of previous questionable or criminal behavior Leo is going to focus hard on these groups. Now whether this focus preventing them looking elsewhere early on I don't know. We only know so much which we have tracked and looked at and have grappled with it for 3+years. What we do not know about are the cards that LEO holds and until there is a viable suspect or arrest we may never find out.

 

[Bootsctr]

I never thought LE, at the time of the girls' disappearance, were able to move past Dan's drug use and history. I do believe they did investigate the abduction aspect, but I think the focus was concentrated around Dan and his "circle of friends". I believe Misty was making an honest effort to clean her life up and be a mother for Lyric. It's hard to completely cleanse yourself of that lifestyle when you move right back into it though. I don't think she had a lot of choices though, or at least she felt she didn't have a lot of choices...

I was going back through some of notes I had jotted down about the case and I came across this quote from Elizabeth Smart:

"Miracles do happen. For as many bad things that we hear about that happen, for as many kidnappings and terrible stories of children, why can't these girls be the exception? There's always hope."

I think we all had hope here, but I do think the majority knew what the outcome would be. The odds were always against the girls. I pray that LE will soon have a suspect and an arrest. It has been long time for the families and this community to go without answers.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Yes, the results can be skewed by drug use, or sometimes it depends on the person who gives the polygraph. I'm just glad they're not admissible in court. I was watching an ID program regarding the murder of a young woman and the profiler they brought in gave a VERY, VERY detailed profile of the killer down to what type of car he would driving (VW), the color, and the fact that he would be able to pass a polygraph. Indeed, in the end the killer had taken the polygraph and passed it. This was not Ted Bundy, but I believe Bundy did pass a polygraph and so did Gary Ridgeway. I imagine Joseph Duncan could have passed a polygraph too.

AFAIR, Misty took two. She was told she failed the first one and she agreed to take one more test. I don't think they released the results. :moo:

BBM

Not to mention every spy with a security clearance caught in the US in the last 50+ years (J Edgar Hoover loved polygraphs). Most of those spies who were cleared by the FBI took yearly polygraphs and passed every single one. The US has never caught a spy via use of the polygraph... and yet they keep on hooking people with security clearances.

It's ridiculous and embarrassing to think that our government puts any credence in such claptrap after so many failures.

 

[Bootsctr]

:bump: Still no information about the suspect in the sexual assault at George Wyth State Park? :notgood:

I wonder if they were able to obtain any DNA from under her fingernails or elsewhere?

 

[Ommmm]

Not a word. It's disturbing to see yet another violent attack which looks like it's going unsolved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[giagreen]

I keep thinking of these piir girls. I remember their flyers up all over town. (About and hour SE) I keep thinking a random bored nobody killed them. Maybe an off beat loner who was out squirrel hunting or something. I think it was a random act and the girls ran into someone who took advantage of the opportunity. I really wish the person responsible for this would be cought.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Anytime I see a case with similarities, I think of the girls. This probably has nothing to do with them, but I wanted to mention it.

Oklahoma - Washington Co. deputies search for suspect accused of attempting to coax young girls into car

The little girls told deputies that they were riding their bikes in a driveway near West 4000 Road in Washington County when a dark colored car arrived.

Deputies say the girls claimed a man stepped out of the car and asked the them to accompany him because he needed directions. The girls said the man then walked toward them and they ran towards their home.

The male suspect is described as 5’10” to 6-feet and around 55 to 65 years of age. He is said to be a white man who weighs between 200 and 220 pounds with balding grey hair, a full beard and trimmed mustache.

http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news...used-of-attempting-to-coax-young-girls-in-car

 

[watcher9]

Anytime I see a case with similarities, I think of the girls. This probably has nothing to do with them, but I wanted to mention it.

Oklahoma - Washington Co. deputies search for suspect accused of attempting to coax young girls into car

The little girls told deputies that they were riding their bikes in a driveway near West 4000 Road in Washington County when a dark colored car arrived.

Deputies say the girls claimed a man stepped out of the car and asked the them to accompany him because he needed directions. The girls said the man then walked toward them and they ran towards their home.

The male suspect is described as 5’10” to 6-feet and around 55 to 65 years of age. He is said to be a white man who weighs between 200 and 220 pounds with balding grey hair, a full beard and trimmed mustache.

http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news...used-of-attempting-to-coax-young-girls-in-car

Thanks for posting this.
I googled the address in Washington Cty OK and found it is in the postal area of Shiatook OK which is on the outskirts of Tulsa OK. There is a direct route on I-35 from Evansdale to Tulsa, with Kansas City half way between the two.

 

[Aymstriss]

:bump: Still no information about the suspect in the sexual assault at George Wyth State Park? :notgood:

I wonder if they were able to obtain any DNA from under her fingernails or elsewhere?

Without going into specifics....I would bet everything I own that DNA was obtained...

 

[threecrazykids]

Without going into specifics....I would bet everything I own that DNA was obtained...

Awwww...COME ON! Ya can't say something like that and then leave us hanging! That's nothing short of torture for sleuthers! I have no doubt DNA would attempt to be obtained, but I have a feeling you may have insider info on that case.

:gaah:

:thinking:

ullhair:

 

[Ommmm]

I hate it when the thread goes quiet :/

 

[gofer]

I mentioned this before so I'll bring it up again since the thread is slow hopefully we can get the ball rolling again. With all of the confusion that was going on when they first went missing, how well did LE scrutinize the alibis? Was J.C's alibi his girlfriend? Wasn't Dan's alibi that he was home sleeping with Dillon in the house?

I wonder who Dan got the ATV from to look for the girls and who else had access to it?

Wasn't Dan driving his girlfriends pickup at one time without a valid DL?

Morrissey's court appearance Friday came hours after one of the girls' uncles, Jeremiah Cook of Waterloo, was hospitalized following an apparent overdose. Cook, 32, had been very close to the girls and was having trouble eating and sleeping since they disappeared, his mother, Wylma Cook, said.

She said Jeremiah was recovering in a Waterloo hospital and was expected to be okay.

"It all took a toll on him," Wylma Cook said. "My grandchildren were his prize possessions. He loved the children, and he's a very soft-hearted person."

Thompson, the sheriff, said the overdose was not related to the girls' disappearance.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1710467.html