Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

[Kell1]

Which is why it concerns me even more that the girl who reported being approached on the Evansdale Nature Trail said she was attacked by 2 men who were dressed as police officers. Like I said...if this person is impersonating an officer and approached the girls I have no doubt they'd go with him. No doubt whatsoever.

The question remains then - how have these men not been spotted by ANYONE who recognized them in Evansdale? Because they aren't FROM Evansdale.

The offender who abducted the girls, is most likely from the area, either the recovery or from the abduction site, no matter what anyones feelings are , barring the investigators themselves, the data is there to support this claim .

Could it be different?.. absolutely, but unless everything that LE has been studying all these years, is wrong, the safest bet is to stay to what we do know about these type offenders and the evidence in this case, falls pretty well into those typologies.

Sometimes we tend to over think things, I know when we get a hunch , we want to stay with it , but you have to understand unless you have 20 years investigating actual homicides as a member of a sworn LE department, you are basing your feelings off what you have probably read in the past etc... In reality most crimes, are not as scripted, or as romanticised, or even as deviant as we imagine.

I call it the TV syndrome

Motives certainly aren't always as complicated as we may make them seem, those who make the best investigators are the ones who stick to the evidence, and dont make assumptions about what couldve happened, they work with what they know did happen.

They may call in support (FBI etc..) to help calculate other factors, in which case hey may offer suggestions to aid in an investigation but ALL of those are based upon data we know applied to the evidence.

As hard as it may seem, you have to stay on track

The biggest issue I see here, on WS are members trying to link cases, without thoroughly investigating what they have 1st. Think trapping vs hunting, trapping you never know what you are going to get hunting you are looking for s specific prey item, thats what we want to do , allow their behavior, the evidence they left, put out what the public should be looking for prior, and post.

Instead of making suggestions

Now I know its not easy because only so much is listed, but think of it like this

Of all the millions of homicides committed per year , just under 1% may be attributed to serial killers , and I say MAY , because some aren't identified .

One guy in particular almost made me leave WS, everything was the work of the his "killer" .

Anyway Serial murder is actually an exceedingly rare phenomena, yeah it makes great TV, books and movies, but in reality its not that prevalent (thankfully).

But I'm willing to bet in 90% of the threads on here you'll be willing to find SOMEONE who will wager their kids souls, that said crime is the work of the infamous Serial Killer.

They will look up some case, that may have been 40 years earlier, it may have been completely different victim types, all evidence pointing away from any type of predatory crime....

Yet they will try to link it "He may have moved here as a kid and this could've been an early attempt".... The incident could have happened on the damn MOON, but they'll try to link it.

And its almost always not .

Police impersonators are indeed a problem, not because of what potential they have but because they may also cause suspicions and create distrust, in LE which in this day and age,can have huge implications.

Sometimes we get too into our own head in other words.

It isnt wrong , but its like going to the depths of space to see what our own planet is like , instead of looking at our own planet to see what other planets may be like ...If that makes sense



In cases where people were arrested for impersonating police officers , they usually aren't venturing far from home, police impersonation, is a MO, MO isn't always a reliable crime scene indicator, the reason is that MO is a dynamic, IE it can and does change over time , with experience, trial error.

The mere fact that someone reported a police impersonator , may change the offenders behavior , because now he knows, the public is wary of his (their) MO.

 

[Kell1]

While sleuthing a missing person case in Horry County/Myrtle Beach SC, a couple years ago, there was a police impersonator sexually assaulting college students. I did a search of the frequency of police impersonator crimes in the US. I was amazed at how common this ruse was used in abductions, sexual assaults, and a variety of other violent crimes.

All young drivers should be taught the proper safety procedures to follow when involved in a traffic stop by unmarked or suspicious police vehicles, especially at night. They should first contact dispatch; 911, to verify that it is actually LE, while slowly proceeding with their emergency flashers on to a safe location once verified. If it is not a legitimate police officer, the dispatcher will give proper directions to follow.

Been saying it or years, that it should be taught as part of HS drivers education classes .

 

[threecrazykids]

RichKelly -

Please know that I'm not implying that this person is completely unknown to the area, but rather, someone who isn't well known as a "creeper" in the town of Evansdale itself. I have no doubt whatsoever that this person is local. Not only were they likely very familiar with Seven Bridges - but they had have knowledge of Evansdale itself as well to be at the location where these girls were allegedly abducted.

The area they were abducted from isn't an area that people would likely just "hang out" for lunch. They were there with a purpose...and likely KNEW that no one would be coming along soon enough to interfere with the abduction itself. I have a hunch the girls were familiar with this person somehow. That is 100% my assumption. Maybe he did put a knife or gun to both of them and they complied - but I just can't shake this feeling that these girls went willingly.

I have no off the wall theory on this being a serial killer or some random construction guy who just happened in the area. No way...this was someone who was not only comfortable with Meyer's Lake - but also very familiar with Seven Bridges...that is NOT a place you'd just happen by. Especially the area they were found - this killer had thousands of gravel roads and acres of farmland to dump a body. But they chose that park. I've never gotten past the "taken from a park, found in a park" mantra. There is a connection there, it's just finding out what that connection is. Fishing comes to mind (over hunting) since Meyer's Lake and Seven Bridges both offer fishing.

 

[Kell1]

RichKelly -

Please know that I'm not implying that this person is completely unknown to the area, but rather, someone who isn't well known as a "creeper" in the town of Evansdale itself. I have no doubt whatsoever that this person is local. Not only were they likely very familiar with Seven Bridges - but they had have knowledge of Evansdale itself as well to be at the location where these girls were allegedly abducted.

The area they were abducted from isn't an area that people would likely just "hang out" for lunch. They were there with a purpose...and likely KNEW that no one would be coming along soon enough to interfere with the abduction itself. I have a hunch the girls were familiar with this person somehow. That is 100% my assumption. Maybe he did put a knife or gun to both of them and they complied - but I just can't shake this feeling that these girls went willingly.

I have no off the wall theory on this being a serial killer or some random construction guy who just happened in the area. No way...this was someone who was not only comfortable with Meyer's Lake - but also very familiar with Seven Bridges...that is NOT a place you'd just happen by. Especially the area they were found - this killer had thousands of gravel roads and acres of farmland to dump a body. But they chose that park. I've never gotten past the "taken from a park, found in a park" mantra. There is a connection there, it's just finding out what that connection is. Fishing comes to mind (over hunting) since Meyer's Lake and Seven Bridges both offer fishing.

No. No, Im not saying YOU do but im using it as an example of how things get spun, from what we know using what we "think" we know.

Stay to the facts, stay to what we know of these types, you'll tighten your focus , perhaps even come up with something to ferret out this .

 

[carbuff]

Depressing thought of the day: what if LE has already released essentially all of the forensics and actual evidence in the case?

I sometimes wonder if there wasn't just a huge lack of forensic and other evidence, so that the only thing LE knows that hasn't gone public is that everything has gone public. Clearly, they cannot release the list of everyone who has been interviewed or everyone who has been the subject of a tip or the contents of tips.

So, for example, fingerprints. What if there were so many different fingerprints at the scene that trying to pick out the perp's is hopeless? What if there is no DNA? Or the DNA that has been found is so degraded as to be useless? What if the cause of death was not determinable beyond the impossibility of it being suicide?

If this were the case, I doubt LE would say so because that would be giving the perp way too much information and emotional comfort.

I want, very badly, to believe that LE does have at least some information they aren't sharing.

I think it's very likely you're right, though.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Another thing I've always wondered...is why Smock has always been SO certain this crime would be solved. He's made that statement over and over - "we are certain this crime will be solved, it's just going to take that ONE person to call in and give us the tip we are looking for".

SBM

Meh, that's just standard operating talk used in many, many, many investigations. It doesn't really reflect anything about the status of the case, it's usually a LE strategy to keep the perp(s) nervous and feeling under pressure. The reasoning goes that if the perp is nervous, they may start doing something or continue doing something that eventually attracts someone's attention, who then contacts LE with suspicions.

It is also aimed secondarily at encouraging anyone who has a tip to feel that the information they have may really be important and to subtly underscore the rise in status someone would enjoy if they turned in the tip that led to the perp.

One person who wrote about this sort of strategy is John Douglas, the retired FBI profiler. He refers to deliberately using such statements as part of the strategy in an investigation. After all, talk is relatively cheap and it isn't really a falsehood, either. If LE had given up on the girls, they wouldn't still have a detective assigned to their case full time (as I dimly recall reading relatively recently but I cannot remember where... probably the WC Courier but I don't have a date or headline to search on).

 

[carbuff]

Sometimes it's just LE-speak, too. Of course they're always sure every case is going to be solved. It's their job. It's really rare that any LE spokesperson will admit on the record that any given case won't be solved.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The entire reason this case is still outstanding may well be Smocks own personal Reverse Linkage Blindness. :gaah:

 

[Bootsctr]

The entire reason this case is still outstanding may well be Smocks own personal Reverse Linkage Blindness. :gaah:

I completely agree with that statement. I'll see your :gaah: and raise you a :banghead:. Plus let's just throw in the mix of:

State Crime Lab Fires Worker After Noting Errors

April 14, 2014 | 8:26 am

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — Iowa public safety officials are tightening oversight at the state police crime lab after firing an employee they said mishandled fingerprint data.

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/State-Crime-Lab-Fires-Worker-After-Noting-Errors-186401141.html

A question about Lyric's bike that was given to her by Aunt Tammy: Was the bike kept exclusively in Evansdale? I just don't see Lyric being able to ride the streets freely on a bike in Waterloo and thus the bike was kept in Evansdale. I just can't see them transporting the bike back and forth, or see some family member loading it into an SUV to take to Evansdale every time they visited. If the bikes were dumped at the lake, there might have been fingerprints there if the perp was in such a rush that he didn't wear gloves.

And just for old times sake, a ride down memory lane:



A most excellent picture. I think it captures the emotion of the scene perfectly.

http://archive.desmoinesregister.co...Bridges-Wildlife-Area-closed-off-combed-clues

 

[Grainne Dhu]

A question about Lyric's bike that was given to her by Aunt Tammy: Was the bike kept exclusively in Evansdale? I just don't see Lyric being able to ride the streets freely on a bike in Waterloo and thus the bike was kept in Evansdale. I just can't see them transporting the bike back and forth, or see some family member loading it into an SUV to take to Evansdale every time they visited. If the bikes were dumped at the lake, there might have been fingerprints there if the perp was in such a rush that he didn't wear gloves.

And just for old times sake, a ride down memory lane:

View attachment 84182

A most excellent picture. I think it captures the emotion of the scene perfectly.

http://archive.desmoinesregister.co...Bridges-Wildlife-Area-closed-off-combed-clues

SBM

As to whether a child could ride a bicycle in Waterloo, keep in mind that Waterloo is far from being Manhattan. There are plenty of residential neighbourhoods filled with single family dwellings, so it would all depend on exactly where she lived. Her immediate neighbourhood may have looked a lot like Evansdale.

However, I think you're right and the bike probably did stay at the Collins residence rather than being hauled back and forth. Maybe I'm just not that in touch with modern child parenting but I can't see hauling a bicycle back and forth every day to her childcare provider's location (which would be the Collins, of course). ETA: It seems to me that, knowing she was going to be there every day, it would make most sense to leave it there.

As for the picture above, that had to have ben taken in late fall because there are no leaves on the trees and no weeds or vines in sight. In the summer, a photo from the same angle would be much more closed in with much shorter sight lines. I seem to recall Ollipop saying that in the weeks after the girls disappeared, city maintenance went through on the bike path, mowed down all the tall vegetation and hacked the vines off the fences.

 

[lawstudent]

While sleuthing a missing person case in Horry County/Myrtle Beach SC, a couple years ago, there was a police impersonator sexually assaulting college students. I did a search of the frequency of police impersonator crimes in the US. I was amazed at how common this ruse was used in abductions, sexual assaults, and a variety of other violent crimes.

All young drivers should be taught the proper safety procedures to follow when involved in a traffic stop by unmarked or suspicious police vehicles, especially at night. They should first contact dispatch; 911, to verify that it is actually LE, while slowly proceeding with their emergency flashers on to a safe location once verified. If it is not a legitimate police officer, the dispatcher will give proper directions to follow.

This sort of thing creeps me out because I would be terrified to not just stop and comply. I would want to confirm, and if things were super suspicious I probably would call 911, but I think a lot of police officers would not know what I was doing or not care. If I kept driving or refused to get out, even if I cracked the window and gave a quick explanation, I'd be afraid of being accused of resisting/fleeing or worse. I realize most police officers would not handle it that way, but the likelihood of being stopped by a police impostor is also really rare. Being a tiny female who looks really young makes me a target for nefarious characters and also makes police assume I'm a clueless, impulsive teenager - neither is a good thing!

 

[Wondergirl]

Worth Repeating -


Any tips provided will be very carefully examined. Call the Evansdale Police tip line at 319-232-6682 with any information you have.

A $150,000 reward is still available for information leading to an arrest and conviction in the case.

The Seven Bridges area is about 22 miles north of Meyers Lake in Evansdale where the girls were last seen alive. Smock said it's on a dead end road. It is very common park known to the local community, but not widely known to those outside the area, authorities said.

http://m.kcci.com/news/police-to-give-update-on-evansdale-cousins/31065070

 

[Foxfire]

This sort of thing creeps me out because I would be terrified to not just stop and comply. I would want to confirm, and if things were super suspicious I probably would call 911, but I think a lot of police officers would not know what I was doing or not care. If I kept driving or refused to get out, even if I cracked the window and gave a quick explanation, I'd be afraid of being accused of resisting/fleeing or worse. I realize most police officers would not handle it that way, but the likelihood of being stopped by a police impostor is also really rare. Being a tiny female who looks really young makes me a target for nefarious characters and also makes police assume I'm a clueless, impulsive teenager - neither is a good thing!

<BBM for Focus>
lawstudent, most young drivers would be terrified not to stop and comply when they see the blue lights. This mind think is what the perp is banking on and one of the reasons that young victims are targeted. Knowledge is power. Although this ruse is rare in the scheme of things, it does happen. There have been cases where the proper safety precautions were adhered too, which prevented tragic outcomes while taking a sexual predator off the streets.

Oakland County police impersonator spotted in Milford
http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/2855894-story

 

[Grainne Dhu]

This sort of thing creeps me out because I would be terrified to not just stop and comply. I would want to confirm, and if things were super suspicious I probably would call 911, but I think a lot of police officers would not know what I was doing or not care. If I kept driving or refused to get out, even if I cracked the window and gave a quick explanation, I'd be afraid of being accused of resisting/fleeing or worse. I realize most police officers would not handle it that way, but the likelihood of being stopped by a police impostor is also really rare. Being a tiny female who looks really young makes me a target for nefarious characters and also makes police assume I'm a clueless, impulsive teenager - neither is a good thing!

To put it plainly, if I were African-American, I would be terrified that not stopping within the first second of the lights flashing or the siren going would be the first mistake I made on my way to becoming yet another African-American statistic. That would go double were I an African-American man below the age of, maybe, 75.

I know that the vast majority of police officers are professional and all around great people but it is very true that the behaviour of a few bad apples does taint the whole barrel.

 

[dotr]

Worth Repeating -


Any tips provided will be very carefully examined. Call the Evansdale Police tip line at 319-232-6682 with any information you have.

A $150,000 reward is still available for information leading to an arrest and conviction in the case.

The Seven Bridges area is about 22 miles north of Meyers Lake in Evansdale where the girls were last seen alive. Smock said it's on a dead end road. It is very common park known to the local community, but not widely known to those outside the area, authorities said.

http://m.kcci.com/news/police-to-give-update-on-evansdale-cousins/31065070

Again, echoes of Russell Williams, former Col comes to my mind, he was fairly new to the neighbourhood where he stalked for victims, when he asked a long time resident where his favorite hunting/fishing area was located, and RW ultimately put one of his victim's body in that area.

Could it be an" outsider" who became very familiar with the area through an" insider?
Might he have staked out the place long beforehand, prepared a spot, then went out hunting each day to find a victim to bring to his " camp"?
imo.

 

[Wondergirl]

Again, echoes of Russell Williams, former Col comes to my mind, he was fairly new to the neighbourhood where he stalked for victims, when he asked a long time resident where his favorite hunting/fishing area was located, and RW ultimately put one of his victim's body in that area.

Could it be an" outsider" who became very familiar with the area through an" insider?
Might he have staked out the place long beforehand, prepared a spot, then went out hunting each day to find a victim to bring to his " camp"?
imo.

Oh, now that's a good point.

Williams wanted to know Jones hunting spot so he could dump his murder victim there to pin it on him. Which as we know, LE was very focused on Jones and it damn near worked.

But to parallel that to this case, would mean we were dealing with someone of extreme intelligence and cunning.

Is that where we are with this child killer?

Rich thinks it's a common, "normal" criminal. Nothing special. Not likely a serial predator.

What arguments can be made for that?

In reality, this SOB has literally stolen 2 girls in broad daylight, murdered them, and seemingly not left much evidence at all.

Maybe some thinking outside the box is indeed necessary.

I will throw it out there. ......how about LE or former LE?

Does seem a pretty sophisticated crime, and I'm not sure anyone would think it was a stretch that the girls would go with a LEO.

Or maybe that's just all creative imagination.

However, it certainly did happen in Williams case. God the absolute cunning and audacity with which that SOB operated as one of Canada's most powerful military Colonels. Blah

Likely spinning wheels in the mud here....

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Again, echoes of Russell Williams, former Col comes to my mind, he was fairly new to the neighbourhood where he stalked for victims, when he asked a long time resident where his favorite hunting/fishing area was located, and RW ultimately put one of his victim's body in that area.

Could it be an" outsider" who became very familiar with the area through an" insider?
Might he have staked out the place long beforehand, prepared a spot, then went out hunting each day to find a victim to bring to his " camp"?
imo.

Maybe.

Most of Iowa is privately owned land, though, so a lot of hunters have favourite hunting spots that are privately owned, usually farmed. Even my teensy 4.5 acre plot has someone who hunts it (usually every other year and his absolutely charming teenagers come to my door each time to gush over what a great spot it is and thankyousomuch). So he'd likely have to ask more than one person.

I know one thing for sure and that is NO ONE would tell a stranger or casual acquaintance or even a friend where their favourite mushroom hunting spot was. Not even all their relatives! Back in the day, I didn't tell even my (now ex) husband because I knew he'd tell his family. I like morels, I know they need due concern for conservation and I am not inclined to share them.

I hope someone would remember getting a question like that from someone who doesn't hunt and maybe call the tip line.

 

[SapphireSteel]

OK as far as a random hunting - His car would've been seen.

Whoever it was HAD to have a vehicle to transport the girls.

There was no vehicle seen at that spot, which means whoever it was did not sit about with a campstool and thermos. It was literally in, grab, go. Even the placement of the purse implied they went via a car from the highway.

Only the locals know and use that particular parking spot. Its not an Offical Parking Area. Hence, it was a local. Not a random hunter.

It was a trap, ITA - but one set by someone who knew when the girls were likely to be there.

Otherwise a vehicle would've been seen and traced by now. There were other people roaming about who pretty much saw (and heard!!!) nothing.

Also, the girls were not supposed to be there.

That's kinda, one coincidence too many, to me.

It seems utterly planned and the girls the targets, intentionally. IMO.

No one could've known where they were headed before they got there as they were pretty much playing hookey. Going where they weren't supposed to go, allegedly.

WHY<<<is what I want to know. Why did they go there, then, against the rules, to walk into a trap set by someone who apparently was expecting them?

 

[Kell1]

Rich thinks it's a common, "normal" criminal. Nothing special. Not likely a serial predator.

What arguments can be made for that?

Evidence, experience, Data, Years of Case studies done by local, County, State and Federal Law Enforcement agencies , University studies, Independent studies , Studies done by bodies within the Federal Government, Similar cases, Studies done by State psych institutions, Studies done by local, state and federal Correctional facilities , Thousands of hours of offender interviews , etc..

Think outside the box all you want, Ill stick to the evidence , and the hard facts.

As for evidence , I'm sure there was evidence, however after being exposed to the elements for just over 5 months how much of it was viable or not tainted in some form I can't say

This the last post I will make on the case

 

[carbuff]

Thank you for your insight, RichKelly. I've really appreciated having your experience brought to bear.