IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #4

[brighidin]

I think it's odd that Tammy is defending Dan so hard when he's been arrested for DV against her sister.

If he'd hit my sister, I'd be all like, "yeah, he's a crap person." ALLL over national TV.

I think she is working hard to try to show that the family is united.
Maybe. I actually have no idea what is going on. It is all very convoluted.

 

[palaminodee]

per the twitter KCRG page Misty was the one that told the reporters "no news" from the meeting at the command center this evening

 

[passionflower]

I will also add that both schools tin evansdale have lots of outside camera many of which look towards the wooded areas behind them, and as of today, LE has not requested any of their video footage

I know its a long shot that there would be anything on it but why not take it just in case there is?

wow! should be checked for anything strange!:what:

 

[Simp]

If the dogs picked the girls scent up at the lake then to the trail... Why couldn't the girls have been down by the lake then ridden onto the trail on their bikes? I just can't get over the fact that I feel they were abducted from that trail where the bikes were left. They were supposedly in the middle of the trail or at least blocking it. I can't understand why someone would "plant" the bikes or the purse somewhere to throw off an investigation. If a predator took those girls why would they take the time to distribute items to throw off the investigation? I mean if you were gonna grab some girls I'm sure time is limited and why would someone risk getting caught moving some bikes? Just my thoughts and I'm open to suggestion of course.

 

[CHERIE.T]

LOL...I am not arguing...I just get frustrated when LE comments (in many cases) about how people make things more difficult or create distraction, etc when people decide to use their rights to legal counsel, right to remain silent or not inmplicate owns self, etc...It is implied (through omission) that they are not cooperating fully. I just think his comment raised MORE speculation about the family in the general publics eye (seeing it as hiding something to use a lawyer, etc) and takes away from the investigation. LOL.

:seeya:Well now I agree with you about that. I should think first then reply.

 

[CHERIE.T]

If the dogs picked the girls scent up at the lake then to the trail... Why couldn't the girls have been down by the lake then ridden onto the trail on their bikes? I just can't get over the fact that I feel they were abducted from that trail where the bikes were left. They were supposedly in the middle of the trail or at least blocking it. I can't understand why someone would "plant" the bikes or the purse somewhere to throw off an investigation. If a predator took those girls why would they take the time to distribute items to throw off the investigation? I mean if you were gonna grab some girls I'm sure time is limited and why would someone risk getting caught moving some bikes? Just my thoughts and I'm open to suggestion of course.

Would the dogs pick up the girls scent on the bikes even if they were not the last ones to touch their bikes?
I hope Im making sense.

 

[Pacific2011]

I will also add that both schools in evansdale have lots of outside cameras, many of which look towards the wooded areas behind them, and as of today, LE has not requested any of their video footage

I know its a long shot that there would be anything on it but why not take it just in case there is?

Perhaps the cameras at the local schools are not turned on during the summer vacation?

 

[epiphany]

I think it's odd that Tammy is defending Dan so hard when he's been arrested for DV against her sister.

If he'd hit my sister, I'd be all like, "yeah, he's a crap person." ALLL over national TV.

Agree. IMO, given the circumstances, In-Laws here one could only dream and wish for.

 

[brighidin]

per the twitter KCRG page Misty was the one that told the reporters "no news" from the meeting at the command center this evening

I wonder what the meeting was about? :waitasec:

 

[Simp]

Would the dogs pick up the girls scent on the bikes even if they were not the last ones to touch their bikes?
I hope Im making sense.

I don't know for sure but I would think they would be able to. JMO

 

[gitana1]

They are not in the lake.

If they were, only one would be missing.

The statistical likliehood of two girls, both of whom could swim, one of whom was quite strong, getting trapped and drowning in a lake at the same time, silently and unseen, is just not credible. At their ages there would've been yelling, struggling, splashing, screaming.

I am glad they are draining it but believe they may well be looking for evidence, not bodies.

Because they have not surfaced, I highly doubt they have drowned either. However, it's just not true that it is not credible that two kids that age would get trapped and drown or that there would be yelling, screaming and splashing involved. I think it is very important, especially in the summer, that everyone knows how easy it is to drown and how quietly it can happen:

The 10-year-old girl and 7-year-old boy, who were cousins, were fishing with family members at the Old Milburnie Dam, just north of the New Bern Avenue Bridge, on Monday afternoon.
At some point, the children went out in the water, went under and never resurfaced

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/11320237/

One minute families were enjoying the sun, sand and water Friday afternoon on a crowded beach in Port Burwell.
The next minute frantic rescuers were doing CPR on a seven-year-old boy pulled from the water while shocked beachgoers walked in a line through the water to search for his sister.
The seven-year-old boy and his 10-year-old sister were unresponsive when they were rescued from Lake Erie just before 4 p.m. and flown by air ambulance to Victoria Hospital in London, Elgin County OPP said.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/07/13/19984846.html

He told Action News his two kids were playing in the pool and that his wife left to change her clothes for just a couple of minutes when tragedy struck.
A large circle of dead grass is where a pool once stood. Hanford Police say two children drowned here while playing Friday afternoon. The apartment's landlord removed the doughboy pool after medics rushed the kids to a nearby hospital. The eight and seven year old brother and sister were dead when they got there.

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=8266568

AHMEDABAD: Two children lost their lives in Shamlaji village in Khedbrahma taluka while they were taking bath in a village pond. The incident happened when around 12 pm Yuvraj Chuhan , 9, Sadev Chauhan, 10 had stopped by village pond on Tuesday afternoon for a quick bath. Normally the boys never entered the deeper section of the pond. But on the fateful day Yuvraj and Sadev decided to enter the pond where the waters were deep and the mud below was loose. No sooner did the boys enter the lake for a swim when they were sucked into the lake. "Normally children did not enter the lake without supervision. But here the boys decided to take a chance and succumbed

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-06-27/ahmedabad/32440109_1_village-pond-boys-lake

If you spend time on or near the water (hint: that’s all of us) then you should make sure that you and your crew knows what to look for whenever people enter the water. Until she cried a tearful, “Daddy,” she hadn’t made a sound. As a former Coast Guard rescue swimmer, I wasn’t surprised at all by this story. Drowning is almost always a deceptively quiet event. The waving, splashing, and yelling that dramatic conditioning (television) prepares us to look for, is rarely seen in real life.
The Instinctive Drowning Response – so named by Francesco A. Pia, Ph.D., is what people do to avoid actual or perceived suffocation in the water. And it does not look like most people expect. There is very little splashing, no waving, and no yelling or calls for help of any kind. To get an idea of just how quiet and undramatic from the surface drowning can be, consider this: It is the number two cause of accidental death in children, age 15 and under (just behind vehicle accidents) – of the approximately 750 children who will drown next year, about 375 of them will do so within 25 yards of a parent or other adult. In ten percent of those drownings, the adult will actually watch them do it, having no idea it is happening (source: CDC). Drowning does not look like drowning – Dr. Pia, in an article in the Coast Guard’s On Scene Magazine, described the instinctive drowning response like this:

1. Except in rare circumstances, drowning people are physiologically unable to call out for help. The respiratory system was designed for breathing. Speech is the secondary or overlaid function. Breathing must be fulfilled, before speech occurs.
2. Drowning people’s mouths alternately sink below and reappear above the surface of the water. The mouths of drowning people are not above the surface of the water long enough for them to exhale, inhale, and call out for help. When the drowning people’s mouths are above the surface, they exhale and inhale quickly as their mouths start to sink below the surface of the water.
3. Drowning people cannot wave for help. Nature instinctively forces them to extend their arms laterally and press down on the water’s surface. Pressing down on the surface of the water, permits drowning people to leverage their bodies so they can lift their mouths out of the water to breathe.
4. Throughout the Instinctive Drowning Response, drowning people cannot voluntarily control their arm movements. Physiologically, drowning people who are struggling on the surface of the water cannot stop drowning and perform voluntary movements such as waving for help, moving toward a rescuer, or reaching out for a piece of rescue equipment.
5. From beginning to end of the Instinctive Drowning Response people’s bodies remain upright in the water, with no evidence of a supporting kick. Unless rescued by a trained lifeguard, these drowning people can only struggle on the surface of the water from 20 to 60 seconds before submersion occurs.

http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/

 

[trigger]

she has also said alot of things that LE says are not correct:

off the top of my head:

1)last seen time (was reconfirmed today it was 1215)
2)clothing descriptions (LE still does not know what they were wearing)

She is also the one that is talking about the attorney.


Okay so say some members of the family have retained an attorney.. wouldn't you think that attorney would issue a statement?

We don't even have a name of an attorney or really know if one has been obtained... We only have what Aunt Tammy is saying... which in this sort of a high profile case is odd... The reporters would be swarming over that attorney for a statement but we have heard nothing.
:moo:

Adding another

July 17th

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So I`m trying to process all this. And you know much more about it. Please don`t take anything I`m asking personally, but is it possible that the little -- one of the little girls may have wanted to run away or been overly curious about just going off? Getting to that age where they want to just maybe take off?

M. MORRISSEY: No.

D. MORRISSEY: Absolutely not.

M. MORRISSEY: No.

(Well we now know Lyric did want to runaway.)

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ijvm.01.html

 

[SyraKelly]

Where would an 8 & 10 yr old go for 7 days with no money or food-I don't believe they ran away & besides don't kids that age miss their mommys & daddy when they haven't seen them for awhile!
and even if they did runaway JVM-Elizabeth would have taken her purse with her!! Talk about distractions!!!

 

[Londonrraine]

Would the dogs pick up the girls scent on the bikes even if they were not the last ones to touch their bikes?
I hope Im making sense.

Are the bikes being tested for fingerprints? Then matched against any SO's in the area?
Anyone know?



(Sorry if this has already been covered,...my first time on this thread.)

 

[palaminodee]

Would the dogs pick up the girls scent on the bikes even if they were not the last ones to touch their bikes?
I hope Im making sense.

yes, the dogs were given the girls items to smell, they are trained to pick up the "latest" smell of what they were given. If the girls were not there they would not have followed any scent.

They are only following that scent, no others.

 

[KathrynL]

Adding another

July 17th

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So I`m trying to process all this. And you know much more about it. Please don`t take anything I`m asking personally, but is it possible that the little -- one of the little girls may have wanted to run away or been overly curious about just going off? Getting to that age where they want to just maybe take off?

M. MORRISSEY: No.

D. MORRISSEY: Absolutely not.

M. MORRISSEY: No.

(Well we now know Lyric did want to runaway.)

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ijvm.01.html

My first gut instinct about this was that it had something to do with Lyric. IMO and IME an at risk child that might engage in risky behavior is search of love, stability, approval, validation. She looks more like a teen than a 10yo, which opens her to a lot of bad situations for a little girl to find herself in. All that no, no, no way stuff is a red flag to me...let's face it, all was not unicorns and rainbows and Father Knows Best for this child.

:cow:

 

[gngr~snap]

Thx Gitana! As someone who "went under" as a child that is the horrific truth!

Thank GOD! the lifeguard at the lake saw me waving my arms for help because you can't make a peep!

 

[dovebar]

That's going to make it hard to swim tonight. :-( A walk sounds like a better idea right now.

I'm starting to think the girls were taken as vengeance against the family. As in, from their drug involvement days, they owed money or had enemies. Sadly, I think there is a "market" for young girls and boys. We seem to see every day now drug addicts trading their kids for drugs, which they wouldn't be able to do if kids weren't a commodity in that culture. Valuable for sale. I don't think the parents offered them for sale but I think someone they knew, who knew OF the girls, and that they were lightly supervised, took them.

The mother even said something about her job at the convenience store, and that the girls had been there with her sometimes, even though it was a fairly new job, and that someone might have seen them and stalked them. I do think it's awfully coincidental that she starts that new job and then the girls disappear. I hope LE is looking at that angle. Mother's instincts are usually good ones, even when the mom has made some bad choices and had struggles in her past.

I don't know enough about their family to know whether it's weird of not that she defends her estranged ex. It might be a friendly divorce and she might dislike her sister. Her sister might be an "instigator" or a drug addict. We don't really know.

Praying for those little girls. I hope they are alive and they can escape, or get away from wherever they are.

 

[epiphany]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-suspe...-family/story?id=16810959&page=2#.UAi0RURqpig

But come Wednesday evening, as word of their criminal pasts made the rounds, the two were nowhere to be found. Only Brousseau, whose other sister Heather Collins is grappling with the disappearance of her daughter Elizabeth, spoke to reporters.

"They don't know where these girls went, so they're going to focus on the fathers. Do the moms, you know, have anybody who's out to get them? Do the kids have any enemies, things like that? That's just standard procedure. I know they've gotten really nasty with them and stuff, but that's their job, that's what they do, and that's how they bring stuff to the surface. So I'm glad they're doing their job."

 

[Jules71]

My first gut instinct about this was that it had something to do with Lyric. IMO and IME an at risk child that might engage in risky behavior is search of love, stability, approval, validation. She looks more like a teen than a 10yo, which opens her to a lot of bad situations for a little girl to find herself in. All that no, no, no way stuff is a red flag to me...let's face it, all was not unicorns and rainbows and Father Knows Best for this child.

:cow:

BBM. I agree with this statement.