IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #4

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My first gut instinct about this was that it had something to do with Lyric. IMO and IME an at risk child that might engage in risky behavior is search of love, stability, approval, validation. She looks more like a teen than a 10yo, which opens her to a lot of bad situations for a little girl to find herself in. All that no, no, no way stuff is a red flag to me...let's face it, all was not unicorns and rainbows and Father Knows Best for this child.

:cow:
Good points. Does anyone know if Lyric used the internet? I know she knew how to use a cellphone. I wonder if she used a computer at home, and if that's being looked into.
She apparently used the Grandmother's cell phone.

I would imagine that LE has gone over that phone's use.
 
Here is my theory:

The girls were never at the lake. The dogs picked up their scent at the bikes and the woods just off the bike path because their bikes (with the girls' scent) were put there by someone else. So the dogs just ran to the bikes and then to the wooded area and then stopped. That was it. If the girls had been on that road (on bikes, walking, or by car) wouldn't that dogs have kept going? Someone planted those bikes/purse there.

SBM

Your theory about the dogs could be true but it is hard to tell one way or the other. The dog handlers are experts and they keep meticulous training logs that can stand up to scrutiny in court proving that their dogs are reliable when used under the conditions encountered. A report from the dog's handler can be considered fairly likely to be accurate.

I want to say, though, that reading dogs is a combination of experience and long term training with that particular dog. So an onlooker's interpretation of the dog's actions may not mean what that person thought it meant. The only person who knows to any degree of certainty is that particular dog's handler.

If someone else planted the bikes and purse by the lake, the dogs would have indicated on the bikes and then gone... essentially nowhere. Typically, a dog in that situation will circle the object starting close up and spiralling outwards until the handler gives up and either starts the dog all over again, moves to a different spot in the same general area to try again or just gives up for that area.

Dogs are trained to follow the freshest scent of the victim that is available. If the freshest scent was only on the bicycles and all other scent was older, the dog would stick to the bicycle and ignore the older scent.

If the girls were by the bikes at any point that afternoon, the dogs would start by circling the bikes to find the freshest trail from whichever point they approached them. Then the dog would move along the same line that the victim moved along (in this case, theoretically from the bikes into the woods).

If the victim made a sharp turn, the dog may overshoot the turn by anywhere from a couple inches to several feet and then stop, circle back to the last spot they could smell the victim and then cast around as above until they find the new direction.

If the victim is riding a bicycle or is being carried, that usually leaves plenty of scent for a dog to find.

Dogs can be trained to trail victims that are in vehicles but it's pretty hit or miss because there are so many variables. For instance, some vehicles are quite airtight (for instance, a vehicle with windows up and a/c set on recirculate) and some vehicles are quite leaky. Usually, the newer and higher cost the vehicle, the more likely it is to be very airtight. The older the vehicle and the cheaper, the more likely it is to be relatively leaky. Road conditions can kill off scent, particularly heavy gasoline or diesel fumes.

So if the dog keeps tracking the victim and you know they were in a car (because the track leads onto an interstate, for instance), that's a positive indicator that the victim travelled that way. But if the dog stops tracking, it doesn't mean that the victim was picked up in a helicopter, it just means that particular dog under those particular conditions was not able to find any more scent.

Now, what did the FBI Bloodhounds find? I have no idea because I'm not either dog's handler.

So in the end, I don't think any firm conclusion can be drawn at this time based on the evidence given. The only report we're getting is from someone who is not either dog's handler and probably has never handled a tracking dog herself.
 
Good points. Does anyone know if Lyric used the internet? I know she knew how to use a cellphone. I wonder if she used a computer at home, and if that's being looked into.
She apparently used the Grandmother's cell phone.

I would imagine that LE has gone over that phone's use.

Her older brother had a computer that LE took
 
Detailed history of Misty's past criminal history at link below. Also,

In the weeks before the girls' disappearance, Misty and Daniel were having problems at home – they were preparing to file for divorce after being separated for years.

"They are not a couple," Misty's sister Tammy Brousseau told ABC News Wednesday. "They are currently separated and maybe well on the way to a divorce."


http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-suspe...ls-case-family/story?id=16810959#.UAi2ZkRqpig
 
Where would an 8 & 10 yr old go for 7 days with no money or food-I don't believe they ran away & besides don't kids that age miss their mommys & daddy when they haven't seen them for awhile!
and even if they did runaway JVM-Lyric would have taken her purse with her!! Talk about distractions!!!

Purse with cell phone used for games belonged to Elizabeth.
 
Thx Gitana! As someone who "went under" as a child that is the horrific truth!

Thank GOD! the lifeguard at the lake saw me waving my arms for help because you can't make a peep!

In my case, at 8 years old, I was trying to swim to a raft as part of the test to pass my swimming class. Not only could I not make it to the raft, but I kept sinking lower and couldn't even get to the surface once. By the time the life guard realized I wasn't coming back up, jumped in and pulled me out, I was basically just laying on the bottom (still trying to get the strength to 'swim' to the surface for a breath.) I was just lucky he was paying attention because my swimming teacher and the other 10 kids in my class were standing there watching me and had no idea there was a problem.
 
Detailed history of Misty's past criminal history at link below. Also,

In the weeks before the girls' disappearance, Misty and Daniel were having problems at home – they were preparing to file for divorce after being separated for years.

"They are not a couple," Misty's sister Tammy Brousseau told ABC News Wednesday. "They are currently separated and maybe well on the way to a divorce."


http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-suspe...ls-case-family/story?id=16810959#.UAi2ZkRqpig

wow to come right out and say they suspect dad?
and the history!
Now why??? why?? would family do this??? money?? pay back a drug debt?
 
I still don't understand the following discrepancies:

Time last seen:
Gram says 11:30 - LE says 12:15. Even if Gram's original general timeframe thrown out WAS 12:15 and she then took a bit to think about it and was more able to confirm 11:30, why are the police so adamant in sticking to the 12:15 time. Unless of course they have a way to CONFIRM they were there until 12:15. If they can give the detail to say for certain "they were last seen at 12:15" one would believe they have a way to prove that.

Clothing they were wearing:
Posters and parents give descriptions of what the girls were wearing - LE says they don't know what they were wearing. Is this because they want to leave this open for anything they find that could belong to them? Again, another reason for me to think that maybe they don't NEED a description of what they were wearing because they aren't concerned with people needing to "keep an eye out" for them, or their clothing description.

Any ideas on why police haven't been able to agree with the parents on these simple details?
 
Perhaps, related to earlier announcement of the closing of lake parking lot (I think it was the PL) this evening at 10PM??

IOW, wonder why lake parking lot closing tonight?

I heard it was because they would be parking big equipment there.
 
Would the dogs pick up the girls scent on the bikes even if they were not the last ones to touch their bikes?
I hope Im making sense.

Yes.

At least, they should be able to and their handlers do tons of training and keep meticulous records so that they can prove in court that their dog has a record of accuracy and reliability.

Howevah! Neither dogs nor humans are omniscient and can make mistakes.

I would find it very odd if both dogs made exactly the same mistake, though.
 
Good points. Does anyone know if Lyric used the internet? I know she knew how to use a cellphone. I wonder if she used a computer at home, and if that's being looked into.
She apparently used the Grandmother's cell phone.

I would imagine that LE has gone over that phone's use.

Yes. Lyric has her own Facebook page.
 
Captain Abben thinks it is a distraction. However, people have rights in this country and by invoking them, they should not be criticised by police. This is not ok by me. Cooperation is one thing...but if 100% cooperation means getting dragged out of bed at all hours of the night or being detained without cause or being interrogated repeatedly that is bordering on illegal police conduct. These people need to utilize an attorney to not only protect themselves, but their sanity. Shame on Captain Abben for trashing them in public for this.

I don't think he trashed them at all. I think he was truthful. When parents stop talking to police - that IS a distraction! How can police help THEM to solve this mystery if THEY won't talk to police? I don't know what all was asked of these parents, or if Dan was actually accused, or just feels that way. I don't know why they still bother with the polygraph tests, when they are so clearly inaccurate and flawed! I think the officer is right - officers can easily become distracted and mistrustful of parents who stop cooperating suddenly! It is bound to make them think the parents have something to hide, even if they don't!
 
LOL no need to be argumentative. IIRC I got a finger shakin yesterday for reposting facts from a link here and from JVM about the meth connection to the families. It was MY right for stating the meth facts.

Captain Abben is NOT trashing the referred to person. That persons arrest record and his OWN comments are not off limits. Capt Abben didn't make things up, he stated facts.

I wanted to add to this -
Capt. Abben and police didn't reveal the parent's criminal histories. They respected their privacy whether out of respect or by law I do not know, but still, that would have been an easy one to get leaked out there! It didn't come up until the parents brought it up themselves that I know of. I read today that the parents approached media (was it CNN) to advise them of their own accord to put it out there. Police also haven't said whether they've confirmed parent's alibis, etc, but have clearly stated over and over they don't have a reason to believe the family was involved. Could be the police are saying this to quell the families concerns about being labeled as suspects, but thus far, they haven't named anyone related or otherwise as even a POI....
 
I don't think he trashed them at all. I think he was truthful. When parents stop talking to police - that IS a distraction! How can police help THEM to solve this mystery if THEY won't talk to police? I don't know what all was asked of these parents, or if Dan was actually accused, or just feels that way. I don't know why they still bother with the polygraph tests, when they are so clearly inaccurate and flawed! I think the officer is right - officers can easily become distracted and mistrustful of parents who stop cooperating suddenly! It is bound to make them think the parents have something to hide, even if they don't!

I will never forget John Walsh saying "LE could ask me to stand naked in the street and I would if they thought it would help find Adam." Now to me that is what a real parent does. To me the rest is BS. MOO IMO IMOO
 
But didn't Jim Spellman say that the family came to him and told him about all the history and past charges between the couple? My feelings on them are they were forthcoming about their history and showing they want to get this out in the open because they have nothing to hide.
 
But didn't Jim Spellman say that the family came to him and told him about all the history and past charges between the couple? My feelings on them are they were forthcoming about their history and showing they want to get this out in the open because they have nothing to hide.

Or that they're trying to give that impression so later on their attorney can argue that.
 
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