IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #5

[elmomom]

Drug addiction (and nicotine is a drug), changes your brain. You have chemicals that are released to keep your mood balanced, and there are receptors for these chemicals in the brain. Taking a drug causes more "happy" chemicals to be released. Your brain fights to be "normal" and not overstimulated, so it starts making less receptors for the chemicals over time. When you take away the drug from an addict, their brain is not a normal brain and they will suffer mental pain trying to just be normal, since their brain is used ti having lots and lots of happy chemicals around as the state if "normal". Over time, most brains will start replacing the down regulated receptors and the addict will recover. But it isn't always the case, and it isn't an easy road.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I don't know if it is appropriate Mods to ask this here, please remove if warranted-
but is Wylma the mother, OR grandmother, of MC, HC, TB( who must have a different father??)

SBM

I'm not sure why you think TB has a different father. If you're talking about last names, keep in mind that all three women have different last names: Cook, Collins, Brousseau.

It is still very common in Iowa for women to take their husband's last names at marriage. I still get confusion from strangers because I chose to retain my birth name when I married.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Trained tracking dogs can distinguish between identical twins, apparently as easily as they distinguish between unrelated people (judging from their behaviour).

Genetics is only a part of what creates a person's unique scent. Environment in the form of what the person has eaten, the person's fitness level (research shows that people in excellent physical condition secret less protein in their sweat), their personal culture of skin bacteria and mold, etc, go into making each person's scent unique.

I suppose there's a chance that if identical twins did everything identically and always together their entire lives, a dog might not be able to distinguish them. But I don't see that as a realistic experiment.

The reason they had the family do a lineup together for the dogs is so that if the scent articles (or anything else) had a family member's scent on it, the dogs would ignore it.

Really? I had no idea a scent dog could differentiate that way. That's amazing.

 

[Ollipop]

Just watched the kwwl interview with drew and heather. They handled the situation so well. Refusing to comment on Dan and misti. I think it would be hard to not say something in the situation. I am impressed with their restraint. Regardless of wheteher they are involved, their past makes this case more challenging and the Collins have remained focused on the girls only. Also they own their own business so I imagine it is suffering while they are focusing on this case. I imagine the money will help pay a few bills until some resolution is reached. Also just fyi, 5th degree theft could be a bad check in Iowa. Its a misdeamor.

I was just talking to a friend earlier on FB, and we both agreed: it is hard to define Drew Collins as anything other than "a class act." The Collins', IMO, are kind, generous, and forthcoming. Heather's sister and that segment of the family, IMO, has been attempting to emulate the Collins', but unfortunately it doesn't come as naturally to them. Not judging, just saying that events in their lives - some brought on by choices they've made, some by no fault of their own - means that they view the same events through a different lens than the Collins'. Especially early, discussing their faith and whatnot, I got the feeling they were attempting to maintain the demeanor seen with the Collins'. Just my opinion.

For instance, I work in a bar. Worked last night, and the police came in. Some people instantly look away, get paranoid, freeze up, try to leave in a hurry. Others, instantly become curious: "why are they here, what's going on?" Others still, despite the police clearly being visible and present, do not bat and eye, could care less. Everyone deals with "the authorities" differently, and it serves no purpose to judge those reactions. Just because you act paranoid doesn't make you guilty, just because you seem unaffected doesn't mean you are completely innocent.

What I can say, because I know him somewhat and I know so many who know him well, is that Drew Collins is, by all measures, a stand-up guy. I would trust him with my children, if that means anything. I've never met anyone else in the family, although my wife and children have dined in the Collins' home on at least one occasion.

oh that's baloney that someone JUST NOW FOUND A VM. I don't buy that a second.

When I saw this I interpreted as he had heard the message before, but assumed the message had been deleted, and only realized it was still there shortly before the interview. But yes, obviously they sensationalized it just a tiny bit. Ron Steele's been in the biz a while.

Yes I find it odd too because I would be constantly checking my phone. However I do live in the same town as they do and there have been many times I have had vm show up days later. I even got a new phone because of it but it still occasionally happens. Happens to my husband too. Must be the carrier. Yet I still think le had the Collins play it to humanize the girls as pp suggested.

Same here. I've left a message for a friend before I left work, and have actually been standing next to him at the end of the shift when his phone suddenly alerts him to my message. I can't understand it, but its frustrating if the message is important. Maybe we in Iowa are farther backwater than even we realize, lol?


And I got a house full of kids - surprise sleepover! But I'm going to get to work uploading and posting pics of the trail area in a bit.

 

[MotherOcean]

Whew... I am catching up. Atleast I have caught up on this thread. I have finally watched several of the interviews with Lyric's parents and read some about their backgrounds. It's a shame that the parents have to be under suspicion when children are missing. We all know it has to be that way, from LE's perspective, but I'm feeling thankful that WS is a victim/family friendly place to discuss these cases. I don't think Lyric's parents knowingly or purposely have anything to do with her missing. It's clear there is not a strong mother-daughter bond. I never once heard MCM say her daughter's name. Neither did dad. At first it seemed odd to see her so lovely and smiling but after getting a better understanding of her religious faith and knowing a little bit about the teachings of her church and religious figures that she seems to admire (found this through FB), I can understand her seemingly calm manner. She is drawing strength from her faith, I believe. Dad has said several times that this is "reconciling" the family. He uses the word "reconcile". I think they must be consulting with a religious mentor of some kind. "Reconcile" is a faith-based kind of word. It's what Jesus did for man and a common theme in churches. It is almost like he sees this as a good thing because it has drawn the family closer. Actually, I think he outright said that in one interview. I can't judge that negatively because that is just the right response to have in any tragedy if someone is relying on their faith.

So, that's my two cents about Lyric's parents.

I think this is an abduction. I feel really scared for the girls.

 

[marlame]

This just sounds a little contrived to me. I mean, your child is missing and a week later you find a voice mail from her that she left on the day she went missing? Wouldn't you check your phone for all messages in case someone called and left a message about an emergency or something else. I mean a WEEK later... What if she had left a message saying Dad i'm at ____ and I need help....
I just think this was made up by either the FBI, the family themselves or the TV station to keep the story alive. No way do I believe he _just_ found this message.

Possibly, Elizabeth's dad didn't "HEAR" the message until Saturday...because LE had the phones?

KUDOS to LE and the family for releasing the voice message! This is an excellent tactic to personalize the child so the kidnapper doesn't see the child as an object. I am praying they are alive and found soon!!!! lease:

 

[sreshowtime]

SBM

I'm not sure why you think TB has a different father. If you're talking about last names, keep in mind that all three women have different last names: Cook, Collins, Brousseau.

It is still very common in Iowa for women to take their husband's last names at marriage. I still get confusion from strangers because I chose to retain my birth name when I married.

I understand that ...I too use my maiden name

admittedly I was curious as to extended/other family/past members, and any possibility they might have had a role in the girls missing...any grievances.., a family tree has many branches

 

[StacyMarie83]

I guess it depends on the addict. My ex-husband tried Chantix more than once and still hasn't quit smoking. However, I don't think he loves smoking more than he loves other people.

I really don't know much about addiction (fortunately), but I think I read that saying about addicts loving drugs more than they love other people somewhere.

I also think some drugs are more mind-altering than others. Comparing cigarettes with meth doesn't seem to be an equal comparison in all regards.

OT...but as a smoker, I love smoking. I have good willpower, quit when I was pregnant, etc, but I LOVE smoking. I honestly do not think that makes me an addict. I've quit many times before, I'll do it again if I want to. Just like a person who drinks once in awhile because they enjoy it, does not make them an alcoholic. Trust me, I grew up w/ alcoholics! JMO, IMO

Meth does NOT seem to be in equal comparison, completely agree 100% It's totally off the charts compared to ANY drug IMO Heroin is pretty close, but I would say meth is worse b/c of it's quickness in taking someone down

 

[Advocate1]

Whew... I am catching up. Atleast I have caught up on this thread. I have finally watched several of the interviews with Lyric's parents and read some about their backgrounds. It's a shame that the parents have to be under suspicion when children are missing. We all know it has to be that way, from LE's perspective, but I'm feeling thankful that WS is a victim/family friendly place to discuss these cases. I don't think Lyric's parents knowingly or purposely have anything to do with her missing. It's clear there is not a strong mother-daughter bond. I never once heard MCM say her daughter's name. Neither did dad. At first it seemed odd to see her so lovely and smiling but after getting a better understanding of her religious faith and knowing a little bit about the teachings of her church and religious figures that she seems to admire (found this through FB), I can understand her seemingly calm manner. She is drawing strength from her faith, I believe. Dad has said several times that this is "reconciling" the family. He uses the word "reconcile". I think they must be consulting with a religious mentor of some kind. "Reconcile" is a faith-based kind of word. It's what Jesus did for man and a common theme in churches. It is almost like he sees this as a good thing because it has drawn the family closer. Actually, I think he outright said that in one interview. I can't judge that negatively because that is just the right response to have in any tragedy if someone is relying on their faith.

So, that's my two cents about Lyric's parents.

I think this is an abduction. I feel really scared for the girls.

I completely agree with your thoughts on the Morrissey's.
I think Grandma and aunt Tammy may be big influences in Lyric's life and helped raise her while her parents have both battled drug addictions and been in and out of jail.
I don't think Lyric's parents are directly involved in any way but I think its very possible one or both may be indirectly involved in the girls abduction.

 

[Mjskit]

I guess it depends on the addict. My ex-husband tried Chantix more than once and still hasn't quit smoking. However, I don't think he loves smoking more than he loves other people.

I really don't know much about addiction (fortunately), but I think I read that saying about addicts loving drugs more than they love other people somewhere.

I also think some drugs are more mind-altering than others. Comparing cigarettes with meth doesn't seem to be an equal comparison in all regards.

I don't know. I read that it is harder to stop smoking than to stop using herion. I used Chantix 5 years ago but could only afford a 1 month supply. While on it I didn't have a problem but when those pills were gone it was all me. I kept a calendar and put a big red X on each day I did not smoke. It took everything I had to make it through 5 more months but I did it. No struggles in month 6 but month 7 I had visitors from Japan who left cigarettes on my table. I thought 1 won't hurt. Ha Ha. You can guess the rest. I learned the hard way the 1 most definately WILL hurt.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

I completely agree that nicotine and meth cannot be compared. I smoke. I have never stolen things from others to feed my habit. I've never gotten violent under the influence of a cigarette or made poor choices because I was high on nicotine. I, too, quit when I was pregnant. Meth addicts Go to jail, lose their kids, and lose jobs over their addictions. I currently have a MS in marital and family counseling and let me tell you...meth rips families apart! I have never once experienced relationships as turbulent as With those enmeshed in meth. It is horrible! These addicts will risk it all for their next high.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Greetings, I'm a newbie..

Am I the only one that notices that the "cyclist" or man on a bicycle....actually put himself at the scene and possible time of the "abduction", within minutes of the video and returns to the "scene" hours later? By doing that, if his tracks or scent trail were subsequently detected, it could be said that would be expected, since he had already admitted to being at that location earlier. The man reportedly said that he frequently uses that trail, and is from Waterloo. Why does everyone take his word at face value...even comparing his "time" to GMA's... Did anyone see him in the area on the of the disappearance, i.e., did anyone see him on a bicycle? When he came back after the bikes were located, he was on a bike and was photographed with some off-duty officers I believe. I know he called his daughter, but I've always understood that the cell towers point to an area between cell towers...not an actual GPS location. Also, was Lyric in Waterloo at the time that she was late with her other cousin several days before going missing? If so, could they have met up on the 13th or "run into" each other?

One more thing...in the very blurry video showing the two people cycling by...The second bicycle is substantially larger than the first one. Were their bicycles totally different sizes? Just sayin'.


I've read and watched just about everything on this case so far and all of this is just my humble opinion, but this timing issue keeps bothering me.
JMHO

Welcome to Websleuths, Sunlight!

As for the time that Grandma Cook last saw the girls (12:15 pm), that is confirmed by video from the Big And Tall shop, which caught the two girls on video at that time.

Lyric was in Waterloo with her cousin KB when she was late returning a few days before she disappeared.

Since the two girls were about 10 inches apart in height, I'd expect their bikes to be substantially different in size.

 

[cluciano63]

I completely agree that nicotine and meth cannot be compared. I smoke. I have never stolen things from others to feed my habit. I've never gotten violent under the influence of a cigarette or made poor choices because I was high on nicotine. I, too, quit when I was pregnant. Meth addicts Go to jail, lose their kids, and lose jobs over their addictions. I currently have a MS in marital and family counseling and let me tell you...meth rips families apart! I have never once experienced relationships as turbulent as With those enmeshed in meth. It is horrible! These addicts will risk it all for their next high.

No kidding...there is NO way all addictions are alike. Lots of things are addictive, including caffeine. I take plenty of that, as well as prescription pain pills and cigarettes. I have never committed a crime of any kind. Never spent money on my "drugs" that should have gone to food or clothing. Never been arrested or in jail. Never forgot to feed my cat. I'm sorry, but meth is a totally different thing from almost any other drug and there seems to be no limit as to what people when under its influence.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Why do they know believe the girls are alive but all week they thought the girls drowned? Hmmm.

Monday, Chief Deputy Rick Abben said that LE was confident the girls were not in the lake.

I believe they drained the lake because:

A) if there was even 0.000001% doubt, it was a good thing to get rid of it;

B) it did not take resources away from the rest of the investigation;

C) there was a chance that they might have found some object of evidentiary value in the lake.

I think LE was more than reasonably sure the girls were not drowned but had other reasons to drain the lake. Plus, it kept the media pretty much pinned to the lake which may have been very convenient for the rest of the investigation.

 

[superbee]

I am wondering if either girl wore a watch? How else would they know the time to head back home? Is there a big town clock visible where they usually ride? If any watches were worn, I wonder if LE is checking for a watch that could have fallen off at any of the locations the girls were at? Or if they were in a vehicle and realized they were in danger, could one of them gotten her watch off and hid it, hoping LE would find it later in a search? Did either girl wear contact lenses? Thinking along the same lines.....

 

[MotherOcean]

Oh, I'm feeling sick. I made it to the google street level maps of the area where the bikes were found. It seems like the "ideal" place to lure two small little girls. I don't know why the purse would have been tossed toward the road. I've been thinking it was thrown towards the lake. The only thing I can figure is that someone lured (or grabbed and took) the girls to the wooded area there and tossed the purse to make it look like the girls had climbed the fence.

Someone mentioned that a "bag" was found. Is that the purse?

lease:lease:lease:

 

[Ollipop]

Oh, I'm feeling sick. I made it to the google street level maps of the area where the bikes were found. It seems like the "ideal" place to lure two small little girls. I don't know why the purse would have been tossed toward the road. I've been thinking it was thrown towards the lake. The only thing I can figure is that someone lured (or grabbed and took) the girls to the wooded area there and tossed the purse to make it look like the girls had climbed the fence.

Someone mentioned that a "bag" was found. Is that the purse?

lease:lease:lease:

Got some pics of this area uploading from my camera now.

(Didn't realize this digicam may still be holding every pic its ever taken in its 5 years...taking forever)

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Good question about the watch. I don't remember it being mentioned. Just out of curiosity, are you leaning more towards totally random abduction or an abductor who may have been familiar with the girls on some level?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Did anyone else think it was odd that the lead on this announced he was leaving for the weekend? I doubt he was going on a weekend getaway in the midst of all of this...out of town suspect?

He's a Chief Deputy, not the commanding officer of the investigation.

My guess is that he had plans for the weekend and was not required to give them up.

For people who work stressful jobs, the ability to walk away and de-stress is important or they don't last in the job for long.

Being spokesperson is not a critical job. Having someone else do it for a few days is not a big deal and the person chosen has already been representing the FBI to the media. So it's not like they didn't have anyone on hand who already had experience both in the job and with the specific investigation.

I hope Chief Deputy Abben has a nice weekend.

Sadly, tomorrow the highs are predicted to be over 100 F!!! I know I have absolutely no intention of venturing outside tomorrow.

 

[shefner]

He's a Chief Deputy, not the commanding officer of the investigation.

My guess is that he had plans for the weekend and was not required to give them up.

For people who work stressful jobs, the ability to walk away and de-stress is important or they don't last in the job for long.

Being spokesperson is not a critical job. Having someone else do it for a few days is not a big deal and the person chosen has already been representing the FBI to the media. So it's not like they didn't have anyone on hand who already had experience both in the job and with the specific investigation.

I hope Chief Deputy Abben has a nice weekend.

Sadly, tomorrow the highs are predicted to be over 100 F!!! I know I have absolutely no intention of venturing outside tomorrow.

I don't know....I think he's working. It would not be typical, in my experience, for a Chief Deputy to walk away for a nice weekend during the case of a lifetime. Most of these officers are dogged in their determination. Unless his daughter is getting married or something like that, my guess is that he is somewhere working this case.