IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #7

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Ted is real. I spent many years living in a small town next door to my small town and seeing Ted and a few of his friends every morning drinking coffee at the local gas station. He does hvac and once upon a time, fixed our a/c unit when it froze up in the dead of summer. Nothing about Ted concerns me personally, I think he is reporting what he seen, nothing more. We've asked the public to come forward with anything they might know but then they get thrown into the what if mess.

I totally agree, there are some people who are really suspicious of him. I don't feel like there is one bit of anything hinky going on with him. I think it's good to have different people who suspect different things because then we cover all bases. :)

IMO, JMO, MOO
 
I thought we already knew that they took the East route to the lake, not the West route. They went Morrell to Evans to Arbusus. We know this because the Carpenters live on Arbusus and live saw them ride by, towards the lake.
I think, based on the surveillance footage, it shows them heading West at 12:15.

IMO, JMO, MOO
 
LE could stop the discussion about TG by acknowledging that he is a witness who claimed publicly that he witnessed something (bikes) at the "abduction" location possibly, within the timeframe that the girls were missing. Acting like they've never heard of him is troubling to say the least. He is relevant to the investigation in my humble opinion. I don't think he is the abductor, and I don't rule him or anyone else out either until there is clarity in what happened to these girls. It is not "poor TG"...he is a witness. Tell me what rules him out....he's a nice civic minded person? There are plenty of perpetrators of all sorts that are just the nicest guy you ever met..Moo

If we want people to come forward, and we do, then it is not generally a great idea to pounce the moment they appear. People are already frightened about talking to the police -- even as a witness -- and for damn good reason, particularly in a case like this one with no known suspect.
 
I think I made sense of the video. They were heading west on Brovan Blvd (the street E's house is on). If they kept going that direction they would hit River Forest Rd. Head straight down that (looks like sidewalks on both sides) and they would pass a Casey's (is this the one Misty works at?) and then they would turn left on Gilbert and then hit the trail there first heading south and then east around the lake to the spot where their bikes were found.

On the map, I marked the route in yellow - beginning where the red arrow is (which is where the video captured them riding west).

View attachment 24947

Hollye's map (first post on each thread) shows Misty's work location right by or on Lafayette down by Elk Run Heights Park.

I never even considered the route that you are showing on the map! That would be longer than the route I had mapped. I mapped their route down Evansdale Nature Trail because it looked like a straight path and I was trying to determine the least amount of time it could have taken them to get to the lake. Also, that route would have them crossing Gilbert Dr. and that is close to the home of the man who was watering his yard that day. I don't even know if that path is paved or anything about its condition. And, I didn't consider what direction they were headed from the Big & Tall store. Hmmm... now I have to rethink some things.

The distance on your map is approximately 2.7 miles with a biking time of 16 minutes, according to Google. The other map shows a distance of 1.5 miles and 7 minutes for the biking time. So if they booked it there quickly we are looking at sometime between 7 minutes (which would be incrediably quick, I think) and 16 minutes travel time.
 
from the article:
"Cook said she got nervous when they weren't back by 12:30 p.m. and started driving around town looking for them. After an hour of searching, she returned to the home. Cook said that Misty Morrissey stopped by after getting off work."

Where did she drive around during that hour? Isn't it a very small town? Did she drive out by the lake between 12:30 and 1:30?

ETA: Also, she saw them on their bikes nearby at 12:15. And then she is nervous at 12:30 so she goes driving around? What happened in that 15 minutes to make her nervous?

She's recalling the past, so her memory of times may not be accurate to the minute.

She has said that the girls usually stayed within sight of the Collins house. This seems to be widely doubted on WS but it could be true. If this was true, then it would be natural for her to feel concerned if she looked outside about 12:20 or 12:25 pm to check on them, didn't see them and they didn't reappear in 5 minutes.

As an example, being on time is very important to me so I am usually there 5 minutes early. If I were even a minute late, my husband would start to worry because he knows I'd call to let him know I was going to be late.

However, the California boy I married is still apparently running on California time after 18 years of marriage to this Iowa gal. If he were an hour late, I doubt I'd even notice it. He's have to be 2-3 hours late before I started to get concerned. Because I love him so, I choose to regard this as a charming quirk... most of the time.

I imagine that when Grandma Cook got into her car, she started out doing a grid search, doing squared off spirals around the last place she saw the girls (behind the Big and Tall store). She may also have stopped at homes where Elizabeth's friends lived.

So far, it sounds like a pretty normal response to missing kids who were old enough to play outside without constant adult supervision. The family gradually became more and more worried, calling in more and more family members to help search, until one person got worried enough to report the girls to the PD.

Lyric being late home a few days previously when she was with her cousin KB may have made Grandma Cook and her mother Misty less likely to call the police immediately. They'd just had the experience where Lyric was out with a cousin and returned late without harm. I wouldn't find it surprising if they were telling themselves and each other "boy, Lyric is really pushing the boundaries, isn't she?" without feeling much more concern than that.
 
Wow. The story has completely changed now, which leads to a different theory altogether and makes me begin to understand better what LE might be thinking. I'm not sure anymore what is allowed to be discussed here and don't want to venture into that territory, but it is quite a different ballgame. The word "roadblock" comes to mind.
 
I thought we already knew that they took the East route to the lake, not the West route. They went Morrell to Evans to Arbusus. We know this because the Carpenters live on Arbusus and live saw them ride by, towards the lake.

We don't know for sure if the Carpenter's recollection is correct and that it was for sure Lyric and Elizabeth they saw. From what I understand it has not been confirmed. I was trying to imagine how they would have traveled considering they started out going west.

I think, based on the surveillance footage, it shows them heading West at 12:15.

IMO, JMO, MOO

Correct. The video shows them going west on Brovan Blvd.
 
Not a good sign, timeline and facts are changing.

I've never been quite sure about what transpired between when Grandma first became concerned and when the family members wound up searching at the lake. It's been hard, IMO, to figure out who did what, when and with whom.

Does anyone have a clear understanding of what took place during that time period?
 
The body language of a witness that reported the bikes in the picture talking to L E thathe reported the bikes statment he had to swerve to not hit the bikes .Check out the body language seems odd to me it seems really defensive . Even the bike he is holding maybe it's a new one ? Hope he has a wide seat on that bike Ouch !!
 
I thought we already knew that they took the East route to the lake, not the West route. They went Morrell to Evans to Arbusus. We know this because the Carpenters live on Arbusus and live saw them ride by, towards the lake.

Ollipop, verified local, has explained why the testimony of Mr Carpenter may be mistaken.

I think it's possible they went that route but it's no more than a possibility.
 
Couldn't they have just crossed over one of the side streets, like Morell, back to Evans?
 
Right, and that should be sufficient unless and until LE indicates TG is anything other than a concerned citizen. What exactly has he done that is so wrong? I just fail to see it. JMO

I'm catching up so apologies if this is already "old news."

This has been my thought/point before. I definitely wouldn't rule him out but it feels like he's been "ruled in" (along with mystery paddleboat guy/girl) without any real reason other than being in the area. Or everyone's grasping at straws. I dunno I'm kind of new to this whole thing so maybe there's more of a pattern than I realize but I'm just feeling bad for this guy, not to mention doubting my own willingness to talk if anything ever happened. If it was a serious thing I would but I'm beginning to see how much of a risk I'd be taking.

Hmm maybe that's the key now that I think of it. It's not the talking to LE, it's the talking to, leaking to, or allowing permission to the media that's more the problem IMO. Based on personal experience anyway.
 
If we want people to come forward, and we do, then it is not generally a great idea to pounce the moment they appear. People are already frightened about talking to the police -- even as a witness -- and for damn good reason, particularly in a case like this one with no known suspect.

I was mocked mercilessly for my last name as a child and teenager.

As an adult, such mockery long ago lost it's ability to hurt but it does cause me to question the maturity and judgment of those who do so.

We know that at least a handful of locals have signed up for WS. On the rare occasions I've checked, there's usually about as many unknown "guests" as there are WS members reading these threads.

It's not much of a reach to guess that there are probably a handful of locals reading who have not (yet) signed up as members.
 
What could the physical evidence be? Maybe a text message. Did one of the girls have a phone with them? What could it be?
 
How can the LE say they are alive when they don't have anyone in custody responsible for taking the girls or the girls themselves? If they are taken by a stanger (more than likey for sexual purposes) then odds aren't in their favor. I know they are talking alot to the families and giving them poloygraphs but I don't see a family member being responsible as from what I know there aren't any custody issues as I think both girls parents are together.

Lyric's parents were not together, I think there was even a no-contact order the judge ammended since the girls went missing.
 
Hollye's map (first post on each thread) shows Misty's work location right by or on Lafayette down by Elk Run Heights Park.

I never even considered the route that you are showing on the map! That would be longer than the route I had mapped. I mapped their route down Evansdale Nature Trail because it looked like a straight path and I was trying to determine the least amount of time it could have taken them to get to the lake. Also, that route would have them crossing Gilbert Dr. and that is close to the home of the man who was watering his yard that day. I don't even know if that path is paved or anything about its condition. And, I didn't consider what direction they were headed from the Big & Tall store. Hmmm... now I have to rethink some things.

The distance on your map is approximately 2.7 miles with a biking time of 16 minutes, according to Google. The other map shows a distance of 1.5 miles and 7 minutes for the biking time. So if they booked it there quickly we are looking at sometime between 7 minutes (which would be incrediably quick, I think) and 16 minutes travel time.

I get 1.9 miles and 9 minutes via google maps.

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...lhwId_dB_-g&t=h&dirflg=b&mra=ps&z=15&lci=bike
 
Not nice! He's a real person that reported what he saw as requested by LE. He shouldn't be ridiculed. He or his family may read here.

I don't think the poster was ridiculing TG, just the fact that someone would make up a name or usE his name. Apologies if I am wrong.
 
I'm catching up so apologies if this is already "old news."

This has been my thought/point before. I definitely wouldn't rule him out but it feels like he's been "ruled in" (along with mystery paddleboat guy/girl) without any real reason other than being in the area. Or everyone's grasping at straws. I dunno I'm kind of new to this whole thing so maybe there's more of a pattern than I realize but I'm just feeling bad for this guy, not to mention doubting my own willingness to talk if anything ever happened. If it was a serious thing I would but I'm beginning to see how much of a risk I'd be taking.

Hmm maybe that's the key now that I think of it. It's not the talking to LE, it's the talking to, leaking to, or allowing permission to the media that's more the problem IMO. Based on personal experience anyway.

In almost every case I've followed over the last 40 years, there has been at least one witness that was not averse to media attention. The vast majority of the time, these witnesses are innocent and merely enjoy media attention.

So far, this is not like the Ward Weaver case, where Weaver sought out media attention. In that case, Weaver was guilty but apparently thought he could successfully bluff the police because he thought he had successfully concealed the bodies.

Weaver was an anomaly. Most of the time, the perpetrator does not seek out media attention (although they may well seek out police and/or family).
 
I just keep watching the video where they say "physical evidence they are alive" what could that be. That has to be big to say that!!! If you hace not seen that video than you havve to watch it, i cant post the link, i am not good on my iphone!!lol
 
Physical evidence could be a communication of some kind, a video, or maybe somebody wore a wire under a certain circumstance, i.e., "cooperated" with FBI and got something (that may or may not be a family member or associate) but it might be.
 
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