IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #7

[threecrazykids]

If I understand correctly one video time is 12:11 and the other 12:15. Probably just a case of one (or both) of the security systems having the wrong time by a couple of minutes. MOO

I think we only have ONE video of the girls. The video is the exact same as the one released several days ago...is it not?

I have seen the "newly released" video and it looks exactly the same as the one we've already seen...it's just not zoomed in.

Did I miss something?:what:

 

[Unscripted]

It is possible that the girls had previously asked if they could ride to the lake (earlier in the summer) and were told “no” and to stay close – within a few blocks. Mr. C. and his wife on Lake St. reported that they would frequently see them ride by, especially Elizabeth, and said the girls always turned around before they got to the lake. In the mind’s of children that equates to obeying the rules – they rode their bikes within a half block of the lake, but didn’t go TO the lake. Maybe Gma/Heather/Drew didn’t want the girls to pass by a specific house near the lake?

On that Friday it had rained in the early morning and the temperatures were much lower -- in the mid 70s -- so it was pleasant bike riding weather. Perhaps they rode around the lake on the bike path earlier (between 11:30 and 12:11) and wanted to go again but decided to scootch by Elizabeth’s house to see if Gma was waving them to come in? Not seeing Gma and knowing that they had to be back by 12:30ish they zoomed by before they could be reeled in for lunch.

They could have made it from Brovan (even travelling westbound as per the video) to the southeast portion of the bike path in 8-10 minutes (west on Brovan to River Forest to East End Ave, down S Evans to Gilbert to Lake to Maiden Lane = 1.5 miles), as there appears to be very few cars and no traffic lights between the house and the lake. (speed calculator: http://www.unitarium.com/speed-calculator ) Mr. C. seemed to say they went by really quickly so the girls were maybe hoofing it to get around the lake and back for 12:30.

I think it’s very probable that someone observed them earlier in the day (and during the week/previous weeks) and that they were lying in wait. Or the girls came onto the perp.’s radar because he was visiting people in a house on/near the lake… or someone passed along a “tip” via the “Child RSO network”.

TG (cyclist) could have passed by (at 12:20-12:25) while the girls were being held in the nearby bushes and, unfortunately, been none the wiser. This happened on a Friday so it is very possible the plan was to get the girls out of town to another weekend location. JMO.

 

[HeavenLeigh]

I'm not one to usually bash LE, but why didn't they ask businesses to check for videos of the girls? Or did they and this business owner didn't get the message? It has been almost two weeks.

They did. This was 2 days ago. I do not know if they were asked prior to this though.
BBM
Authorities are also asking anyone in Evansdale with home or commercial surveillance cameras to contact police. They are pursuing every lead that comes in on the tip lines and continue to look for new evidence.
Link: http://www.kwwl.com/story/19084897/...dale-girls-continues-with-little-new-evidence

 

[Marilynilpa]

I think we only have ONE video of the girls. The video is the exact same as the one released several days ago...is it not?

I have seen the "newly released" video and it looks exactly the same as the one we've already seen...it's just not zoomed in.

Did I miss something?:what:

The only thing new about this video, IMO, is the time on it - 12:11 as opposed to 12:15.

 

[tlcya]

No matter what has been released in the media it sure seems LE is very satisfied with the timeline they have according to the statements made by LE in the ABC article.

Something just doesnt make sense though. They were going away from Myers Lake at 12:11 pm and they were peddling fast.... so fast Elizabeth was lagging behind. So they would make good time going the other way from the lake in no time.

I am beginning to believe those girls never went to the lake and the bikes were put there by someone else who just threw them down in the bike path. I think if the girls had really been there they would have used their kick stands and wouldnt have left them blocking the path. It seems to me someone threw them out in a hurry and moved on out quickly.

IMO

BBM This has been my concern from day one.

 

[azuredewdrop]

The mother of an Iowa boy missing since 1982 said she got a “sickening feeling” in the pit of her stomach when she heard news that two more of the state’s children, cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey and Elizabeth Collins, had vanished while riding their bicycles, a pursuit as iconic in Midwest culture as delivering the morning newspaper once was.

The news was salt in a wound that has never healed for Noreen Gosch, whose son Johnny’s abduction while delivering the Sunday paper in his West Des Moines neighborhood 30 years ago remains unsolved.

She said she “knew it was “a kidnapping right off the bat.”

And Gosch knew it was going to forever alter the lives of the families of Elizabeth, 8, and Lyric, 10, just as then 12-year-old Johnny’s disappearance on Sept. 5, 1982 inexorably changed hers.

http://marion.patch.com/articles/io...ny-gosch-s-mom-s-30-year-wound#photo-10749474

This is the story that changed my childhood. I grew up in sw Iowa in the 80s and when Johnny disappeared, all of the mom's and aunts and grannies started watching us all so much closer. Such a sad story with no closure and as it's been mentioned before, missing people in Iowa just don't seem to get found. Praying it's a different story for Elizabeth and Lyric!

 

[winterrose]

No matter what has been released in the media it sure seems LE is very satisfied with the timeline they have according to the statements made by LE in the ABC article.

Something just doesnt make sense though. They were going away from Myers Lake at 12:11 pm and they were peddling fast.... so fast Elizabeth was lagging behind. So they would make good time going the other way from the lake in no time.

I am beginning to believe those girls never went to the lake and the bikes were put there by someone else who just threw them down in the bike path. I think if the girls had really been there they would have used their kick stands and wouldnt have left them blocking the path. It seems to me someone threw them out in a hurry and moved on out quickly.

IMO

Good point, girls are usually better about throwing out the kickstand and maybe even putting the purse on the handlebars. They also could have thrown them down and was running from someone.

 

[Jax49]

I think we only have ONE video of the girls. The video is the exact same as the one released several days ago...is it not?

I have seen the "newly released" video and it looks exactly the same as the one we've already seen...it's just not zoomed in.

Did I miss something?:what:

Two videos from businesses next door to each other, if I understand correctly, thus the two different time stamps.

Quote:

Authorities in Iowa investigating the disappearance of 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins and her 10-year-old cousin, Lyric Cook, have obtained new video of the missing girls from the day they vanished 12 days ago.

End quote:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...deo-elizabeth-collins-lyric/story?id=16850676

 

[Squeeze]

For those of you who are thinking in this direction, what do you think about the dogs finding their scent there by the woods?

If TG was wrong about the bikes that he saw, if he didn't see the girls' bikes, then the girls could have made it to the lake and been abducted later that day.

I don't know what to think. We aren't supposed to sleuth family, friends, associates, neighbors, witnesses, so I haven't... until last night. Now I'm troubled and wish I had not. My husband says "curiosity killed the cat" and he is right.

But who told us that the dogs had the scent by the lake?? Wasn't it Misty? Did law enforcement ever really confirm this? It was discussed at length in an earlier thread here.

 

[shefner]

I think we only have ONE video of the girls. The video is the exact same as the one released several days ago...is it not?

I have seen the "newly released" video and it looks exactly the same as the one we've already seen...it's just not zoomed in.

Did I miss something?:what:

I'm pretty sure this is a second video...time on the surveillance is 12:11 vs. 12:15 on the other one.

Someone smack me if I'm wrong, cause it won't be the first time.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Imo, the lake and the bikes being there is a diversionary tactic to distract from where the girls were really abducted. I now dont believe they ever went there nor had any intentions of doing so.

The answer is not between where they were seen on camera and the distance to the lake. Imo, it is from where they were captured on camera at 12:11pm and how far they would have gotten going in that same direction with the bikes being able to be discarded in the bike path around 12:20pm.

Imo, someone in the area saw them riding there bikes heading in the same direction seen on camera and saw no one was around and took the opportunity to abduct them.

I noticed in the video no one was out in their yards and the girls seems to be the only ones out there at the time.

It reminds me of Sandra Cantu's video. One minute she was skipping across the road and the next minute she had been kidnapped by Melissa Huckaby to be molested and murdered.

IMO

 

[Shelby2]

I was under the impression based on Tammy and Gramma's statements in interviews that they went to the lake after having checked the neighborhood blocks, nearby parks and other logical places to look and that the lake was sort of the place of last resort having run out of other places to check.

That is possible, though Tammy did not mention that on JVM-just that she had a 'gut feeling they were at the lake' so they all went there. See post below


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #7

 

[Patty G]

The only clocks that match in my house are on my computer, DVD player, landline and cellphone. My bedside clock is off 2 minutes, an old school clock is off 3 minutes.

The difference between the children shown on surveillance and grandma, IMO is not a reg flag.

 

[Sunlight]

In the video, Lyric is behind, not Elizabeth.
The bikes were found standing up, not on the ground across the path.
No sign of struggle.

This could have happened anytime between 12:15 and 3:58 when the bikes were discovered along with the purse, which was on the other side of the fence on the shore side.

 

[MotherOcean]

MotherOcean check Jules71 posts from last night.

I have but all I've found is that someone with the same last name lives near or on the lake. That doesn't seal the deal for me at all. So, I thought some other info. must be available.

Not that I'm sleuthing the BF!! Just saw the discussion and wondering if we know he lived on the lake, or not!

 

[ShyViolet]

I wasn't there, so I don't know.

I do know that according to Ollipop, a verified local, almost the entire bike trail can be seen from the parking lot. There aren't any ways to ride a bike off the trail in the one place that can't be seen. The lake is 26 acres, so if the lake were a perfect circle the trail would be over 7/10ths of a mile long.

It makes sense to me to hold still and watch to see if the girls pop into sight riding their bikes. And since they knew Heather Collins had gone to the PD to report the girls missing, they probably didn't want to get far from the car so they could go immediately if LE wanted them to go somewhere else.

BBM. I also read that post last night, and was very surprised by that description. Certainly does not sound like the dark wooded place I envisioned that would lend itself to a perp laying in wait in the woods, then nab two girls without being seen or heard.

 

[Jax49]

In the video, Lyric is behind, not Elizabeth.
The bikes were found standing up, not on the ground across the path.
No sign of struggle.

This could have happened anytime between 12:15 and 3:58 when the bikes were discovered along with the purse, which was on the other side of the fence on the shore side.

BBM

I came in late on this case, but I don't remember hearing that. I know the LE spokesman said they were against the fence when he arrived (IIRC), but he wasn't the one who found them. And, what about the cyclist who reported they were across the path (had to swerve to miss them)?

 

[Sere-nity]

It is the same video. The camera angle is exactly the same. The news man points to the same video.

The difference is only this one shows more of the video and confirms why the quality is so horible on the first one that is released. The focal point on the camera is right on the back entrance and not on the street.

Also they showed the time stamp of 12:11.

 

[Marilynilpa]

No matter what has been released in the media it sure seems LE is very satisfied with the timeline they have according to the statements made by LE in the ABC article.

Something just doesnt make sense though. They were going away from Myers Lake at 12:11 pm and they were peddling fast.... so fast Elizabeth was lagging behind. So they would make good time going the other way from the lake in no time.

I am beginning to believe those girls never went to the lake and the bikes were put there by someone else who just threw them down in the bike path. I think if the girls had really been there they would have used their kick stands and wouldnt have left them blocking the path. It seems to me someone threw them out in a hurry and moved on out quickly.

IMO

If the last known sighting of the girls was at 12:11 (video), would there have been enough time for someone to abduct the girls, take their bikes to the lake, dump the bikes on the path and be out of sight (or hiding) by the time TG swerved to avoid the bikes at approx. 12:20?

I keep wondering why TG didn't see/hear the girls when he passed the two bikes. I wonder if one/both of the girls needed to pee, they went off the trail for that purpose and kept quiet when TG came by because they were embarrassed. That could explain why the bikes were there and why TG didn't see Lyric and Elizabeth.

But that still doesn't answer one nagging question - why would the girls have been there in the first place?

And who moved the bikes from the path to where they were later found?

 

[Jax49]

It is the same video. The camera angle is exactly the same. The news man points to the same video.

The difference is only this one shows more of the video and confirms why the quality is so horible on the first one that is released. The focal point on the camera is right on the back entrance and not on the street.

Also they showed the time stamp of 12:11.

Sorry to disagree, but I've seen two videos, with two different time stamps. MOO