IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #8

[Thinkzerz]

bbm
WHO ? WHO says that when their child could be with a sexual predator or worse? :moo:

Don't mean to be a downer here but usually that is why kids get kidnapped.
Edited: I think i misunderstood your post. Forgiving is maybe a way to get the children back in their minds???

 

[Wishbone]

I'm not very good with time, I'm always late or early, so I decided a while ago that the FBI have probably thought of everything in that regard, they're kinda smart like that.

So the FBI were at his shop, him there with his US phone (whatever that is) probably making coffee for the FBI guys and shooting the breeze, eating donuts together and eavesdropping like crazy, as LE were there for a day and a half...long enough to get friendly.

Also, being a small town, you can imagine his buddies happened in for a cup of joe as well and had their :twocents:. No doubt Mr Gamerdinger was one of them.

I have a lot of faith in the wisdom of older gentlemen, especially in packs, when they put their minds to something, so if they've decided it's eight minutes, and that if fits the FBI timeframe to boot, I'm willing to put my house on it.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall during that day and a half that's for sure.

:moo:

Since LE has never mentioned the 12:20 sighting then maybe they are saying there was enough time from the video recording until the time the bikes were located at 3:58. All I know is that one minute would not be long enough to get from where they were recorded to where the bikes were found. I quit.

 

[gregjrichards]

Don't mean to be a downer here but usually that is why kids get kidnapped.
Edited: I think i misunderstood your post. Forgiving is maybe a way to get the children back in their minds???

Very true and extremely upsetting.

 

[Thinkzerz]

Question kinda off topic. Is it the norm for Meth heads to worship the lord as much as this family does? Seems odd. But a good thing.

 

[Mimiof8]

I need a break, I'm tired been on here since 10am. Bbl

 

[CHERIE.T]

Question kinda off topic. Is it the norm for Meth heads to worship the lord as much as this family does? Seems odd. But a good thing.

No kidding.

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM/SBM
"Go to the lake..." why? Because they always go there? No. Because they would swim there? Well, no. Because you think they've been abducted and you think they were abducted from a place they would not go?

huh.


Did she ever elaborate on that gut feeling? Why would the lake be the first impulse?

Every now and then, someone does have a hunch or psychic vision that comes true.

I'm not a believer in psychic phenomena but there are sometimes things that make me stop and go "huh?"

For instance, a woman in California heard of a missing nurse and instantly had a vision of where her body was located. She went out and drove to the spot, then led a sheriff's deputy to it.

And then she was arrested and jailed for four days until the real perp confessed.

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-03-31/local/me-1552_1_psychic-vision

In the article, the Assistant DA says that LE believes that the psychic vision may have been a result of neighbourhood gossip or some other natural means.

I don't know.

It isn't mentioned in that article but I do recall an interview where she said that if she ever had another psychic vision, she'd keep it to herself!

So maybe TB's gut feeling just happened to be correct.

 

[gregjrichards]

Question kinda off topic. Is it the norm for Meth heads to worship the lord as much as this family does? Seems odd. But a good thing.

I am not criticising the family at all this is a general statement.

I know I find it strange when people who are convicted criminals start praying to the Lord when they do not behave the way the Lord would want. I guess they believe God listens to everyone no matter what they have done.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I can't dispute that Misty's demeanor is really odd. Inappropriate response/affect, hotel room with DM, etc.

I remember thinking that Ed Smart seemed kind of "off" and his "choked up" voice/face seemed fake to me. And as it turned out, he was an innocent grieving parent.

On the other hand, I got major hink from Scott Peterson the first time I saw him on TV and he was guilty as sin.

And I think both Celis parents are at the very least hiding something besides themselves. I may be way off there.

So, ya know, ya just don't know until ya know.

No one is saying you can ever tell from demeanour alone.

You can't. What you can do is consider repeated behaviours, body language, what is said and what is not said, and a myriad of these things have led me to believe what I believe.

There was a case in the UK of a raped and murdered little girl. The police were certain her step father had done it, so certain that they purposely made them do a formal press conference, with flashing lights, cameras, questioning media, the lot, just to watch his reaction. They didn't even consider mum. Reason? Demeanour. Genuine grief is unmistakeable and usually what LE means when you hear them say, x is not considered a suspect. Genuine grief is palpable and LE (especially FBI) are extremely skilled at analysing it.

Anyway the result of the press conference was that they were even surer it was the step father. He appeared to be incoherent, he rushed off the stage, he hid his eyes, no tears were seen.

Everyone was absolutely gob-smacked when the evidence was discovered that he was 100% innocent. One of his friends had done it.

So...I always bear this in mind because I saw this guy's film clip and he did appear like he was "faking" tears...he did appear, even to me, guilty as sin...at least when he was under pressure.

I have not seen MCM being interviewed under pressure. She doesn't appear to be feeling any. Also, it is not just one strained press conference. It is clip after clip of relaxed stances, smiling faces, and even laughter.

She even said - today, I'm feeling pretty good. :what:

(I might have that slightly paraphrased). Mind boggling.

:moo:

 

[paris_paris]

It would be great if a poll could be done to see what our opinions are about what happened in this case.

I think what happened to these girls is one of the 14 things/people/places we aren't allowed to talk about here.

Something I wanted to mention because it keeps coming up... between my sister and I, I can off the top of my head remember 4 times where we lost track of one of our children. The first place we looked was the water... even if it wasn't right "there". Except that one time I lost my son in a department store. I knew to go look where the bikes were. None of those times did it occur to me that any of them had been abducted.

 

[gregjrichards]

I need a break, I'm tired been on here since 10am. Bbl

Thank you for your dedication and to you and everyone else who cares about Lyric and Elizabeth. It restores your faith in humanity that so many on here care given the evil and trouble in the world.

 

[Fukiyama]

Side notes:

1. In reference to a question upthread regarding the 'US phone, whatever that is', US Cellular is a cellular phone provider that is prominent in Iowa, not sure how widespread it is across the US.

2. When the guy talks about the CCTV time being eight minutes behind his phone, has anyone read anything to indicate that his phone is on time or are we just assuming that the cell phone is actually the correct time? Depending on the model and type of plan, the guy's phone may not update the time automatically through the US Cellular service. Given how much stock people are giving those eight minutes, I think this is kind of important.

 

[GrainneDhu]

bbm
WHO ? WHO says that when their child could be with a sexual predator or worse? :moo:

I'd say it if Elizabeth were my daughter.

I'd say anything that I thought might make the perp feel safer and less paranoid, which translates into less likely to kill my child. If saying "I have already forgiven you" would increase my child's chance of coming home alive by even 0.00001%, I'd say it.

I'm sure that saying "I've already forgiven you" would work a whole lot better than saying "You better hope the police find you before I do, you horrible scum of the earth."

When my child was home with me, I figure that's when I would have the luxury of expressing my true feelings.

But not until my child is safe.

 

[Sunlight]

Sometimes when people are cooperating with investigators by giving up information on really dangerous people in order to plea deal, there can be substantial threats to family members. While the trap is being laid, sometimes family members are whisked away to a safe place till the heat dies down. Those who know about it are sworn to secrecy and cannot contact or discuss it with anyone...even their mother, father, sister, brother, etc. Just sayin'. MOO

 

[FrayedKnot]

No one is saying you can ever tell from demeanour alone.

You can't. What you can do is consider repeated behaviours, body language, what is said and what is not said, and a myriad of these things have led me to believe what I believe.

There was a case in the UK of a raped and murdered little girl. The police were certain her step father had done it, so certain that they purposely made them do a formal press conference, with flashing lights, cameras, questioning media, the lot, just to watch his reaction. They didn't even consider mum. Reason? Demeanour. Genuine grief is unmistakeable and usually what LE means when you hear them say, x is not considered a suspect. Genuine grief is palpable and LE (especially FBI) are extremely skilled at analysing it.

Anyway the result of the press conference was that they were even surer it was the step father. He appeared to be incoherent, he rushed off the stage, he hid his eyes, no tears were seen.

Everyone was absolutely gob-smacked when the evidence was discovered that he was 100% innocent. One of his friends had done it.

So...I always bear this in mind because I saw this guy's film clip and he did appear like he was "faking" tears...he did appear, even to me, guilty as sin...at least when he was under pressure.

I have not seen MCM being interviewed under pressure. She doesn't appear to be feeling any. Also, it is not just one strained press conference. It is clip after clip of relaxed stances, smiling faces, and even laughter.

She even said - today, I'm feeling pretty good. :what:

(I might have that slightly paraphrased). Mind boggling.

:moo:

I gotcha.

I do suspect that MCM may be (legitimately) medicated.

Whatever I think of Patsy Ramsey (guilty!!!!!!), I do think some of weirdness, for lack of a better word, was the fact that she was tanked to the gills on anti anxiety meds, legally prescribed.

She just seemed so floaty and her face never showed grief or panic or distress. Just spacey.

That said, I do not believe Misty is guilty of anything other than being an absentee parent because of her drug convictions. And past drug abuse. But she really may be on some benzos.

I know I'd HAVE to be, or I'd be running thru the streets, howling and babbling.

 

[MotherOcean]

I was very confused as to why the grandmother had become concerned at 12:30 and went to go looking for the girls,
Then I saw this video that I hadn’t seen before and now it makes more sense.
Misty at the 3:00 mark on this video.




http://youtu.be/J9MTo6tzU-8

That's along time and kids can get far an an hours time.


Also I didn't know Grandmother and 12 boy had gone to the lake and then came back before Tammy and her went down there.

I can hardly even stand to watch videos of the family anymore. It's so heart-breaking. I think they are very brave to talk to NG, to open themselves up, to even get out of the bed everyday and keep breathing.

This video atleast gives a color for the bikes. One was red and one was purple.



:anguish:

 

[jacy]

Every now and then, someone does have a hunch or psychic vision that comes true.

I'm not a believer in psychic phenomena but there are sometimes things that make me stop and go "huh?"

For instance, a woman in California heard of a missing nurse and instantly had a vision of where her body was located. She went out and drove to the spot, then led a sheriff's deputy to it.

And then she was arrested and jailed for four days until the real perp confessed.

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-03-31/local/me-1552_1_psychic-vision

In the article, the Assistant DA says that LE believes that the psychic vision may have been a result of neighbourhood gossip or some other natural means.

I don't know.

It isn't mentioned in that article but I do recall an interview where she said that if she ever had another psychic vision, she'd keep it to herself!

So maybe TB's gut feeling just happened to be correct.

It may be. I just get the feeling there may be something driving her thought process, consciously or subconsciously. A little piece of the puzzle that we don't know.

People have referred to me as 'psychic' because I get deep gut feelings of outcomes. There's no explanation for it, I don't call myself psychic, but I do get that some things are inexplicable.

 

[Sunlight]

I can hardly even stand to watch videos of the family anymore. It's so heart-breaking. I think they are very brave to talk to NG, to open themselves up, to even get out of the bed everyday and keep breathing.

This video atleast gives a color for the bikes. One was red and one was purple.



:anguish:

They are doing the best they can IMO. I notice when asked about them riding to the lake, she said something like "if indeed they did"...seems she had doubts they were ever actually there herself early on. Interesting.

 

[Angleena]

Question kinda off topic. Is it the norm for Meth heads to worship the lord as much as this family does? Seems odd. But a good thing.

I have been in a 12 step program for several years. I have seen some recovering meth heads and it is very common for recovering meth addicts to get extremely involved in religion. They seem to swap the addiction to meth for an addiction to God. However, it is a huge accomplish to actually recover from meth, so it is understanding why one would do a flip flop like that.

It is also extremely common for those who are new into recovery from any addiction to hit the extreme end of God for the first 6 months but it usually does normalize. It's what a lot of people refer to as recovery high.

But there are also a significant amount of people who are supposed to be in recovery who use the God act as an act to convince other people they are in recovery when they really are not - again this would be on the extreme end of it.

moo

 

[SapphireSteel]

Since LE has never mentioned the 12:20 sighting then maybe they are saying there was enough time from the video recording until the time the bikes were located at 3:58. All I know is that one minute would not be long enough to get from where they were recorded to where the bikes were found. I quit.

They did...Tammy Breault, FBI -

“There was a gentleman who regularly runs around the lake. He didn’t see either one of the girls ... but he did see their bikes and he was able to pinpoint the time of the day that he saw the bikes. Small details like this are really important to the investigation,” she said.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html