IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #8

[katydid23]

I was very confused as to why the grandmother had become concerned at 12:30 and went to go looking for the girls,
Then I saw this video that I hadn’t seen before and now it makes more sense.
Misty at the 3:00 mark on this video.




http://youtu.be/J9MTo6tzU-8

That's along time and kids can get far an an hours time.


Also I didn't know Grandmother and 12 boy had gone to the lake and then came back before Tammy and her went down there.

I just watched that video again. Grandmother sounded very worried, very sincerely concerned. Misty, not so much, imo. She smiled the entire time, including when she was asked what she had to say to the public. Big smile, no apparent worry. Baffling, imo.

 

[GrainneDhu]

There were times when LE felt they were not getting full cooperation, but that is not the current condition. The reasons for them not cooperating - and btw that is how LE worded it, not the family - seem somewhat justified. If my daughter was missing, but I was being held in a room repeatedly being yelled at and accused of killing my daughter for 8+ hours, yeah, I think I might begin to get "uncooperative." And yes, if I'd told LE that I know my daughter and she wouldn't jump in a lake but if she did she could swim out of it, and that I'd talked to people at the lake who never saw anyone swimming there, who never saw the water disturbed, and I knew my daughter left the house happy and didn't have intentions to run away with her cousin, but then LE continued to ignore my thoughts and kept telling me that my daughter was probably in the lake, or wandering the woods miles from where her bike was found, etc, I can see where I might get frustrated with LE, and they might label me as "uncooperative."

SBM

Excellent points, the whole post.

I have been following crime stories for over 40 years. I know that most of the time, LE really are the good guys.

But I also know that there are bad people in every single profession and organisation, including police departments, sheriff's departments and the FBI.

What you outlined above is very similar to what Kevin Fox went through when his 3 year old daughter, Riley, was abducted from her home. Her body was found later the same day in a creek near her home.

The circumstances of the abduction seemed hinky to LE: she and her brother were both asleep in the living room, while her father was asleep in his room with the door open. Her brother woke up in the morning to discover that his sister had disappeared. This made it seem as though it absolutely had to be a family member. Specifically Kevin Fox.

LE focused so tightly on Kevin Fox, a man with no prior criminal record, that they somehow managed to completely overlook the discovery of shoes near Riley's body that were the type the Department of Corrections bought in bulk for prisoners. Those shoes even had the last name "Eby" written on the soles. A RSO named Scott Eby lived less than a mile away.

Kevin Fox was put through a prolonged interrogation complete with harassment and physical threats. The investigating officer asked him to speculate on how the crime was committed and then videotaped the answer, so that it looked like Kevin Fox had confessed (which he had not actually done).

Kevin Fox was charged with first degree murder and held in jail for 8 months until the Innocence Project helped his lawyer prove through DNA evidence that Kevin Fox was innocent.

Sadly, by the time LE matched up the DNA to Scott Eby, he had raped another little girl. If LE had followed up on the DNA properly in the first place, that little girl could have been spared.

 

[Mimiof8]

We're not allowed to discuss the scanner threads "upstairs."

I didn't that I know of, what do you mean?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Good point.

And once your 8, 9, 10 yr old rides away from your view on a bicycle, there is no telling WHERE they are riding to. We always went way past our supposed boundaries when we rode around in the summertime. Kids are kids.

It seems like grandma had a false sense of security when she claimed the girls would 'never go more than a block or two' away. That is how far one can travel in one minutes time. The girls were out that morning for 45 minutes before the sighting at BigNTall. Imagine how far they can ride in 45 minutes.

She said that every other time she hollered, they'd come.

Also, Elizabeth had been told in no uncertain terms, what the rules were.

If a person in authority instructed her however, to hop on her bike and run an errand, she would probably do so, as would Lyric I imagine, being lovely sweet good girls.

:moo:

 

[MotherOcean]

I guess I'm trying to say it wouldn't surprise me a bit if anyone on any of those streets between Elizabeth's house and the lake said they'd seen them riding on their street on a fairly regular basis. JMOO

Of course, but some streets are closer to where the bikes were found than others. The bikes got there someway by some route and the girls were seen on Lake Ave. sometime between 12 - 3. That's the only reason it's important.

 

[katydid23]

I was very confused as to why the grandmother had become concerned at 12:30 and went to go looking for the girls,
Then I saw this video that I hadn’t seen before and now it makes more sense.
Misty at the 3:00 mark on this video.




http://youtu.be/J9MTo6tzU-8

That's along time and kids can get far an an hours time.


Also I didn't know Grandmother and 12 boy had gone to the lake and then came back before Tammy and her went down there.

well, it was not REALLY an hours time. Because Grandma saw the girls at 12:15 on their bikes just beyond their street, in a big parking lot. So it was actually 15 minutes since she had seen them last.

But after looking for them from 12:30 until 1:30, I can easily see why they would be really worried then. I think the girls may have been kidnapped before Grandma even began her initial search. :rose:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Geez, can we keep these precious girls Alive until we have been told for sure they are not . Drugs or no drugs If it were my kids I would be on TV begging the perp to release them and let them go . Why is this lacking from the Parents .It really looks bad for them not to do some TV asking for the release of their children ..Such a darn shame ...

Drew Collins, Heather Collins, Wylma Cook, Tammy Brousseau and Misty Cook have all made appeals to the perp(s) via msm. I think Dan Morrissey has as well, but I cannot remember for sure. I think his mother, Vicky Weikart, has also made appeals.

HC and WC have gone so far as to say they have already forgiven the perp(s), just please drop the girls off somewhere they can get to a phone. That they're not interested in finding out who did it, they just want the girls back.

They've begged and pleaded to any reporter or msm show that would put them on the air.

I'm not sure what more they can do along those lines. My impression is that they are not the sort of incredibly wealthy people who could just buy TV advertising time. They have to try to get their pleas out via news shows.

 

[CN2Souls]

I just watched that video again. Grandmother sounded very worried, very sincerely concerned. Misty, not so much, imo. She smiled the entire time, including when she was asked what she had to say to the public. Big smile, no apparent worry. Baffling, imo.

Yes, the Grandmother really sounds upset..


Now, If the Grandmother and Grandson went to Myers Lake right at around 12:30 or so, when they were first searching, I wonder if they got out and walked around the lake or asked if anyone had seen them?
They were gone an hour...?:waitasec:

And why after her and Tammy, went searching did Tammy's want her to go to the lake wouldn't Grandmother say... Me and Grandson were already there and they weren't there?:waitasec:

 

[katydid23]

This was my very first inclination. That spot where the bikes were found is just a perfect spot for some teens who'd just found some bikes with purse to race to and rifle thru said purse, out of view. Nothing in the purse of value, so they just tossed it over the fence and left the bikes. If someone saw them ride in, they wouldn't see them walk out, if they kept going in the same direction. Pure speculation, obviously.

I agree, but then I have to wonder, would they tell anyone that they left the bikes there?

They saw the lake being drained, I am sure. So maybe they would be too afraid to mention that they put the bikes on the path.

I worked in a middle school for years, and one thing that kids learn well,is self preservation. They don't like to tell on themselves or their friends if it is going to mean consequences. :angel: Who does?

 

[Marilynilpa]

...they no longer need fred from jones street saying he heard a bird fart late Friday.
:moo:

SBM

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[katydid23]

Yes, the Grandmother really sounds upset..


Now, If the Grandmother and Grandson went to Myers Lake right at around 12:30 or so, when they were first searching, I wonder if they got out and walked around the lake or asked if anyone had seen them?
They were gone an hour...?:waitasec:

And why after her and Tammy, went searching did Tammy's want her to go to the lake wouldn't Grandmother say... Me and Grandson were already there and they weren't there?:waitasec:

I got the impression that Grandma and her grandson went to a whole lot of places and the lake check was cursory.

But it does seem weird that Tammy had her gut feeling to go to that lake, first thing. I mean the family says the girls never rode there, ever. So WHY go there?

I would go to their friends neighborhoods or to town near convenience stores or the skate parks, where other kids might be. So I found it odd.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Ok I'm going with the locals. They are obviously doing a bit of their own quiet sleuthing and have come up with an 8 minute time frame.

8 minutes for the girls to get from the cctv, to their bikes being seen at the lake.

It is absolutely doable.

Pahl is the manager of Cornbelt Auctions, 3520 Lafayette Road, where a 24-hour camera captured the footage from its position behind the building. The time and date stamp — 12:11 p.m. July 13 — fits the police timeline of the case.
However, Pahl said the camera’s clock is eight minutes slower than his U.S. Cellular phone.
About 4 p.m. the youngsters’ bikes and Collins’ purse were found on the south side of Meyers Lake. Ted Gamerdinger of Waterloo, a bicyclist who said he often rides the Evansdale Nature Trail, has previously told The Courier he saw the two kids’ bikes on the trail at about 12:20 p.m., but no sign of the children.
“It’s pretty hard for girls to get a mile and a half away ... in eight minutes,” Pahl said. “I don’t even think I could ride a bike a mile in eight minutes.”
Pahl said FBI officials arrived within 20 minutes of learning about the video and “sat up here all Monday until about noon on Tuesday watching everything we had.”
“I think they marked every single car that went by,” he said. “I know they downloaded a ton of stuff off of this.”

I've lost the link...doh...

If the girls were intercepted by car shortly after the cctv picked them up, there's plenty of time to get the bikes dumped by 12.20.

:moo:

 

[LittleMissContrary]

Regarding the video of MC where several people have said she is smiling the whole time: I think people are misreading her facial expressions. First of all she is squinting from having the sun in her direct line of vision, and is dealing with a time delay which forces her to wait an abnormally long time before hearing the question and responding to nancy, and the "smile" you are referring to looks more like a uncomfortable grimace.

After watching that video I am now convinced she has absolutely nothing to do with this abduction.

Everyone was jumping on Sierra LaMar's family too, suspecting things based on the statements made by her mother. Clearly we can learn from that mistake that people are not always right on with their assessments of "hinky" behavior.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I just watched that video again. Grandmother sounded very worried, very sincerely concerned. Misty, not so much, imo. She smiled the entire time, including when she was asked what she had to say to the public. Big smile, no apparent worry. Baffling, imo.

Grandma imho is sincere. She looks worried sick.
bbm, true. :moo:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Drew Collins, Heather Collins, Wylma Cook, Tammy Brousseau and Misty Cook have all made appeals to the perp(s) via msm. I think Dan Morrissey has as well, but I cannot remember for sure. I think his mother, Vicky Weikart, has also made appeals.

HC and WC have gone so far as to say they have already forgiven the perp(s), just please drop the girls off somewhere they can get to a phone. That they're not interested in finding out who did it, they just want the girls back.

They've begged and pleaded to any reporter or msm show that would put them on the air.

I'm not sure what more they can do along those lines. My impression is that they are not the sort of incredibly wealthy people who could just buy TV advertising time. They have to try to get their pleas out via news shows.

No one is questioning the amount of time the family has spent talking to the media.

That is one thing we can all agree on...they've gone out of their way to talk.

:moo:

 

[jacy]

But it does seem weird that Tammy had her gut feeling to go to that lake, first thing. I mean the family says the girls never rode there, ever. So WHY go there?

BBM/SBM
"Go to the lake..." why? Because they always go there? No. Because they would swim there? Well, no. Because you think they've been abducted and you think they were abducted from a place they would not go?

huh.


Did she ever elaborate on that gut feeling? Why would the lake be the first impulse?

 

[nikb]

Jaycee Lee Dugard always comes to mind because she's pretty local for me. She was maybe a 60-90 minute drive from home? For YEARS.

Yeah I'm quoting myself... I suddenly remembered another story today of a kidnapped local child who was returned alive after 6 weeks, Candi Talarico. I'm not sure how long the second child was missing, maybe same time frame? But they were both returned alive. It gave me a tiny bit of hope and I thought it might for others too. Here's one of the articles:
http://articles.latimes.com/1988-07-20/news/mn-6069_1_license-numbers.

It completely freaked me out when they found Candi because I was taking horseback riding lessons a couple of blocks away from where she was found at the time. I'd literally driven RIGHT PAST the place these girls were being held at least 6 times, maybe more, and I had no clue.

I know Candi's case isn't related to Elizabeth and Lyric but it gave me a tiny bit more hope. Maybe they'll be the next inspirational story. I hope.

 

[Thinkzerz]

I was very confused as to why the grandmother had become concerned at 12:30 and went to go looking for the girls,
Then I saw this video that I hadn’t seen before and now it makes more sense.
Misty at the 3:00 mark on this video.




http://youtu.be/J9MTo6tzU-8

That's along time and kids can get far an an hours time.


Also I didn't know Grandmother and 12 boy had gone to the lake and then came back before Tammy and her went down there.

HUh the girls were only aloud to go 3 blocks max but rule was to check in every hour? Usually ever hour check ins mean further distance. IMO JMO

 

[CHERIE.T]

This was my very first inclination. That spot where the bikes were found is just a perfect spot for some teens who'd just found some bikes with purse to race to and rifle thru said purse, out of view. Nothing in the purse of value, so they just tossed it over the fence and left the bikes. If someone saw them ride in, they wouldn't see them walk out, if they kept going in the same direction. Pure speculation, obviously.

Speculation? Yes because there has been NO confirmed
mention of strange teens
or anyone else being sighted on that trail that day.

 

[Marilynilpa]

BBM/SBM
"Go to the lake..." why? Because they always go there? No. Because they would swim there? Well, no. Because you think they've been abducted and you think they were abducted from a place they would not go?

huh.


Did she ever elaborate on that gut feeling? Why would the lake be the first impulse?

I don't know about her gut feeling, maybe Lyric and/or Elizabeth had confided to Tammy that they had ridden to the lake before? When my nephews were young, they would tell me stuff they wouldn't tell their mom. Nothing serious, just silly kid stuff for the most part.

If that is what happened, then it's logical for Tammy to believe they could be at the lake. IMO