IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9

[winterrose]

I am still 10 pages behind (!!! Ugh!), so this may have been said, but very early on in this investigation, Abben said that there is NO REASON for OTHER local parents to have fear for their own children. This, more than anything else, makes me think that LE know who did this.

Maybe they got fingerprints off the purse. The only way I can place the purse on the other side of the fence is for it to have been thrown there. Possibly to make LE think the girls were in the lake, to give the perp a head start (which worked). If that's the case, it hopefully has prints on it from whoever threw it. If those prints belong to DM or JW or anyone else not regularly around Lizzy, we have our perp. (It was LIZZY's purse, not Lyric's.)

About the purse, kids riding a block and back home would normally not take a purse,IMO. So I believe going to the lake wasn't a rare thing. BTW, if the aunt did know they were going there and didn't let anyone know, knowing they weren't allowed, I'd have such a problem with that as a parent, esp now. So by taking the purse, I wonder if they had a little money to stop and grab a soda or snacks for the lake.

GRACE: OK, so they could have gone down and they were playing at the water`s edge. But Tammy, we`ve got their bicycles. We`ve got their little purple purse. We`ve got a play cell phone, a cell phone that was only used for games, sitting there. But where are their shoes? Where are their clothes?

BROUSSEAU: No, they didn`t. No. Lyric, Misty, myself and my 11- year-old daughter, we have spent the summer swimming almost every day. Elizabeth had black high-top tennis shoes on. Lyric had her flip-flops on. If they were going to go for a swim, yes, they might have went in in their clothes and got wet. They know they would have gotten in trouble for it, but they might have done that. But they would have certainly kicked their shoes off at the water`s edge.

 

[Sunlight]

We don't know if it was a man, a women, men, women, or man and woman. MOO

 

[GrainneDhu]

I have a question for you all. The house that is for sale, it's also empty. Can I walk around the yards and look at it, kinda like Im looking to maybe buy it? Or, do you have to have a realestate agent present?

Considering the circumstances (recent disappearance) I'd say either have the real estate agent present or call the Evansdale PD to make sure they are cool with it.

 

[Thinkzerz]

Here's what has convinced me -

We have TG's conviction (he is apparently very reliable);

We have the FBI referring to "pinpointing" the time - strong language indeed, and not used lightly. Could easily have said estimating or helping with the time;

We have Mr Pahl, owner of cctv, who had the FBI in his shop for a day and a half saying the below;

Pahl is the manager of Cornbelt Auctions, 3520 Lafayette Road, where a 24-hour camera captured the footage from its position behind the building. The time and date stamp — 12:11 p.m. July 13 — fits the police timeline of the case
“It’s pretty hard for girls to get a mile and a half away ... in eight minutes,” Pahl said. “I don’t even think I could ride a bike a mile in eight minutes.”
.

So essentially we have a credible civilian/witness/prominent local figure who had a day and a half with the FBI in his premises, and now believes that they are dealing with an 8 minute time frame, plus a credible civilian/witness/prominent local figure as a witness;

There is also a marked lack of the usual sort of "LE would like to speak to anyone who saw a white/blue/pink vehicle around x time which is also a clue, in and of itself.

Good enough for me, until I hear different.

There is only one "official" time in this so far - 12.15.

:moo:


I would post the link again but I already have...read up a page

I don't understand LE in some things. If they have this vehicle on cam (not sure they do) why not show the public? Someone would know the vehicle at least you would think. JMO

 

[GrainneDhu]

I don't think the girls rode their bikes to the lake. As much as I can't fathom a stranger taking their bikes to the lake and risk being seen doing so, I just can't believe they rode to the lake. That is a long distance to ride with no confirmed witness sightings. Yes, Mr. C stated he saw them, but I've not seen that confirmed by LE.

I think of all of the houses, cars, businesses, other people I would pass in a mile and a half. People doing yard work, sitting on their front porches, washing their cars, jogging, walking,cycling...

Then, I add in the cyclist(TG), and the young man fishing. Neither of them saw the girls. We have NO confirmed sightings after the time stamp of the surveillance video. Aunt T states that someone told her he saw them, but even that story has changed somewhat. The lack of confirmed sightings is gnawing at me, enough so that I can't shake the feeling they were snatched closer to home.

Keep in mind that usually the only witnesses we hear about are those who are willing to talk to the media.

If there were other sightings of the girls, LE may well have asked those witnesses to stay quiet, so as not to give the perp more information.

So maybe there are no other witnesses but maybe there are witnesses. No way to know at this point.

 

[Jax49]

I don't understand LE in some things. If they have this vehicle on cam (not sure they do) why not show the public? Someone would know the vehicle at least you would think. JMO

BBM

Think you may have misunderstood the post. He/she is saying LE does not have that type of info. At least that's how I read it.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I'm sure Grandma's plate is overflowing with her daughter's health problem, her other daughter & son's drug problems, etc... She is the "go to" for childcare, laundry, meals, etc. I can only imagine the stress this lady was under in "normal" circumstances. When I was young I wouldn't tell my Mom where I was going because she would tell me it was too far so I would lie - then haul buns to the forbidden land... Mom never knew.

ETA: the reason for my post is because I'm going to cut Grandma some slack.

I totally agree.

My heart aches for her. With each new picture, she looks like she's aged a few more years.

 

[Thinkzerz]

I really hate to say this but Misty was always smiling and now every pic or video she is crying. Maybe it has finally set in that the kids are missing idk. But i remember Victoria Stafford's mother was strong and didn't show emotion until after her daughter was found. MOO.I find it hard to have an opinion about Misty's actions even though they are hard to ignore. The fact is until LE charge someone, this can be a stranger abduction but i do believe someone of who know the family.

 

[Thinkzerz]

Just wanted to say to those that are going out to that house and those that have sleuthed around. Be careful. I was right into the Victoria Stafford case. Sleuthing almost everything and the next thing i knew cops were at my door. Not a fun experience. Especially since Victoria's body was found close to where i live. Its okay to Sleuth but be careful in how far you go with it.

 

[Thinkzerz]

Ive been reading on Facebook something about TB talking about Orlando? Does anyone know what this is about? Was it last night when the show was on?

 

[Sunlight]

Ive been reading on Facebook something about TB talking about Orlando? Does anyone know what this is about? Was it last night when the show was on?

Do you mean Orlando as in Disney World or the Anthony case?

 

[Thinkzerz]

Do you mean Orlando as in Disney World or the Anthony case?

I have no idea? Just reading what i am hearing. Something that apparently was said on the show last night??

Oh never mind. TB said its not like its a big city like Orlando.

 

[katydid23]

I have no idea? Just reading what i am hearing. Something that apparently was said on the show last night??

Oh never mind. TB said its not like its a big city like Orlando.

YES. I remember. She said something like: [ in answer to a question from Judge P. about the possibility that a drug connection exists in this case..]


TB: "This is a small community. it is not like we are in Orlando or anything..."

 

[smiley]

Thinkzerz, it was last night on Justice with Judge Jeannine Pirro. They were talking about possible drug connection and Aunt T said this isn't some big town like Orlando, FL. Now that just stuck with me. Seems alot of other big towns closer by she would have used to make her point that Evansdale is a small town.
Grandmother said she didn't said anything about DM narcing anyone out. TB spent more time defending DM that on the girls disappearance.
Grandma said girls NEVER went to lake, then TB said oh well yes, girl(s) have been to the lake. I can't imagine this wasn't discussed within the family, therefore Grandma would have been in the know about that.

 

[katydid23]

Thinkzerz, it was last night on Justice with Judge Jeannine Pirro. They were talking about possible drug connection and Aunt T said this isn't some big town like Orlando, FL. Now that just stuck with me. Seems alot of other big towns closer by she would have used to make her point that Evansdale is a small town.
Grandmother said she didn't said anything about DM narcing anyone out. TB spent more time defending DM that on the girls disappearance.
Grandma said girls NEVER went to lake, then TB said oh well yes, girl(s) have been to the lake. I can't imagine this wasn't discussed within the family, therefore Grandma would have been in the know about that.

I want to read the transcript because TB said a few interesting things last night. She also defended DM in a weird way when she said :

TB: " He did not have any idea where the girls were that day. he could not have done this and he would not have been able to tell anyone else where the girls were. ..bla bla bla"

She seemed to miss the point completely, imo.

 

[Thinkzerz]

It seems that LE need to be pressuring TB on what shes been holding back? JMO

 

[Sunlight]

Interesting...it made me jump, because I posted some threads back that maybe they are in protective custody with the powers that be on a sort of "vacation" at Disney World. MOO

 

[GateKeeper]

My girls and their friends do. They are all 8-10, about 12 of them in their little "click" will ride bikes together everyday. They like to go exploring, especially in a Forrest or wooded area. They make-up stories and play act the parts...
One thing little girls do, at least these girls do- when they ride their bikes and stop to get off--they always use the kickstand. Never just thrown down. The boys in my neighborhood just throw their bikes down and go.

Then the purse, these girls when taking stuff with them, tie their purse to the handlebars so they don't have to hold on to it and steer the bike at the same time.
Just thinking...interesting the way the bikes and purse were found.

Great post.
Ya know...through ALL the sleuthing here,I keep going back to this point. The purse thrown over the fence. It brings up this picture in my mind of the act of a bully. Someone bullying the girls..playing "keep away" with the purse,eventually it ends up on the other side of the fence....
...and then what?

 

[shefner]

I don't think a parent can be held responsible for choices their ADULT children make. You can be a wonderful parent, and still your grown kids might make lousy choices. Sometimes environment, genes, or random circumstances have a bigger impact than the way a person is raised, imo.

I love this answer, katydid! Been there and done that. It hurts so much when your adult child decides all of your values are trash and they go another way. Our children were raised in a Christian household...there was no alcohol and a healthy dose of discipline. Anything our children were interested in, whether music or sports, we encouraged them. We attended concerts and games and cheerleading competitions. If our children started something, they finished it and did the best they could. After that, if they found they didn't like it, they didn't have to play again the next year but were encouraged to find something new to do.

Our kids were taught about love, forgiveness, honor and respect of authority. They weren't forced into believing anything...but we tried to discuss things with them and respect their answers. We were open with them about the dangers of life....alcohol, drugs, premarital sex. When our sons wanted to go to some wild concerts, my husband bought the tickets and took them himself. While there, he shared with them about how some of the people there were involved in self-destruction behavior. He said, "You can enjoy the music and appreciate the value of the atmosphere without participating in all that."

Our kids were popular....Most Gifted Student in the Graduating Class, NC Scholar, Homecoming Court, School Mascot, Student Body Rep....and on and on I could go. My kids would come home and ask for money...not much, just $10-$15. I would say, "Sure but what do you need money for?" They would say, "Oh well, we need it for a friend. He doesn't have any jeans and he has to wear sweatpants everyday. People are making fun of him and we want to buy him some pants." ~Or, "There's this guy at school and he's a senior. He's never been to a high school football game cause his grandmother never has the money. We want to buy his ticket so he can go."
I had great kids.

Today they are all adults in their 20's:
One is an addict. He lives with his girlfriend who also has addiction problems.
Another had a complete psychotic break while in the Air Force. He is now considered disabled.
Another was pregnant before marriage.

If you want to hold me accountable for my adult kids' bad decisions, then go right ahead. No one can beat me up like I have beat up myself. But not anymore. I have grown a lot since the early days. I am a better person for it.

So sorry for the long post....

 

[JaimeInLA]

I'm almost as local as you can get (I can see the lake from my dining room table) and i didn't know about it. I went over to check out that pump/lift house, saw recent tire tracks leading into the undergrowth, but there was LE and locals all getting sketched out by my presence, so I left. I went back later, with my camera, and walked down those tracks, which turned out to be the remnants of an old "road" back there. It is now just a two-track path, with most of the gravel covered and grown over. Where it begins, at the edge of the woods in the driveway of the pump/lift house, it is essentially invisible. The undergrowth at the edge is much thicker, and it was obvious to me a vehicle had been back there very recently. I photographed it, walked back in there, got pics of stuff I saw, the view of the lake, the jetty, the trail, etc, from in there (but of course I cannot locate in which thread I posted them all). I called it in to the the tipline, etc. The people across the street obviously knew about it, as did, apparently, many other people, judging by the trash and whatnot back in there. FTR, it sits about 10-15 feet lower in elevation than Arbutus, down at the lake level, and is not big enough to turn a vehicle around in. So if you backed in there, as soon as your vehicle crossed the threshold, you'd be out of sight from Arbutus.

So to know about this super secret place, you'd have to live closer to it than Olli, like maybe 2 doors down in a now-vacant house that happens to have a green paddle boat in its yard? A green paddle boat that was in the water when the girls went missing (Visible behind the Morrisseys in interviews), but is now up on land, almost in the front yard (Per Olli's visit yesterday). Hmmmmm...