IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9

[Bodhi]

I've debated on posting this for days now but I'm just going to go ahead and do it. Much of what I'm about to say has been batted around as theories but I'm going to share my experiences.

Much has been made of MCM's demeanor and as a loving, devoted mother I too find it baffling but as the daughter of a woman like her I get it. My mother walked off when I was 5. The next time I saw her I was 10 and then I rarely saw her again until I was 13. By the time I moved in with her at 13 I didn't see her as a mother. I felt that I didn't need a "mom" at that point. I was pretty much raised and my grandmothers had did a d@mn good job of it. My mom also felt she had no right to parent me so we developed a sister or friend type relationship. That parental disconnect made for some very interesting dynamics and baffled most people looking in.

Now for the harder point. Again much has been said about the possibility of Lyric being used as a "mule". Both of my parents were involved with drugs, using and selling (growing on one side). Because they dealt in different types of illegals (pot & pills) they liked to trade between the two sets (to further own up to the dysfunction I was raised in my parents married a set of exes). Anyway their favorite way of trading was to put stuff in my brothers' bags as they traded them for weekend visits. My brothers were 10 & 11 when this started and by the time the boys were 12/13 they knew what was going on and were starting to take small amounts out before they handed over their bags.

O/T because I am in no way suggesting this applies to L & E but I just want to share the lasting effects of this. Neither of the boys were 18 when they were busted for having robbed nearly every drug store in 2 counties. At 33/34 they have fathered 8 daughters and never been out of jail for more than 2 years at a time because they can't kick the drug habit they developed more than 2 decades ago thanks to our parents.

Further O/T. I have never gotten anything other than a speeding ticket nor have I ever experimented with drugs. My ex-SIL is one of my best friends and her theory is that I watched my parents fail miserably and learnt exactly what not to do. I lost my dad 6 years ago and while I love and miss him terribly I have always struggled to have a relationship with him and my mother.

I can't believe I'm sharing all this and please know it isn't for sympathy but simply because I think it is nearly impossible for the average person to really grasp that this sort of thing happens. We bat it around in theory but we want to believe that it is so far fetched that it is impossible. It happens far more often than we realize and in families that you would never expect, my dad was a respected, business owner from an upstanding, very religious family.

Now other than MCM's behavior I have no idea if any of this applies to L & E. I have no reason to believe Lyric was being used as a mule or if it is relevant to her abduction even if she was. I have felt from the beginning that the girls are very close to home. I rarely have gut feelings about these cases but I think these girls were lured away by a friendly face and were taken to a nearby home. It won't surprise me if a teenager is involved here. The only thing that gives me pause is the fact that they haven't been found yet. I keep thinking back to the case where the neighbor boy hid the little girl under his bed - teens generally don't hide their victims well so where are these girls?


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Thanks for sharing that with us, vasportsmom! I'm glad you were able to overcome it and create a happy, stable environment as an adult. Your grandmothers would be very proud of you!

I like your theory about someone right around the lake, possibly a teen, taking the girls. It also makes me think about Jessica Lunsford, who was right across street, in the glow of all the the media lights.

 

[cindersoot]

When I grew up in SanDiego Calif at the age of 8 to 13, I rode many neighborhood blocks. I also want to clarify that I also was raised my very disfunctional parents who did drugs in front of me. That was in the late 70's and I guess I would call myself street wise at such a young age. I had many perps try to get me in their vehicles just walking a few blocks to school. What I'm getting to is coming from such a disfunctional drug ridden family makes for a child that is more apt to be mislead by some wacky characters.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Do you know the address of the house for sale? I cannot find it. Also wonder if that paddle boat there is locked to the dock, making it impossible for them or perp to take? Sorry if this has been said before...

I should come up and help look too...think I will try to get a sitter, maybe I will see you there! I drive a 2010 light grey Subaru Forrester with Iowa plates ( of course )...

It's great that you guys live close enough to go sleuthing, but please be careful. Someone who would abduct two little girls might do anything if he felt threatened, IMO.

 

[whittymom4]

I've debated on posting this for days now but I'm just going to go ahead and do it. Much of what I'm about to say has been batted around as theories but I'm going to share my experiences.

Much has been made of MCM's demeanor and as a loving, devoted mother I too find it baffling but as the daughter of a woman like her I get it. My mother walked off when I was 5. The next time I saw her I was 10 and then I rarely saw her again until I was 13. By the time I moved in with her at 13 I didn't see her as a mother. I felt that I didn't need a "mom" at that point. I was pretty much raised and my grandmothers had did a d@mn good job of it. My mom also felt she had no right to parent me so we developed a sister or friend type relationship. That parental disconnect made for some very interesting dynamics and baffled most people looking in.

Now for the harder point. Again much has been said about the possibility of Lyric being used as a "mule". Both of my parents were involved with drugs, using and selling (growing on one side). Because they dealt in different types of illegals (pot & pills) they liked to trade between the two sets (to further own up to the dysfunction I was raised in my parents married a set of exes). Anyway their favorite way of trading was to put stuff in my brothers' bags as they traded them for weekend visits. My brothers were 10 & 11 when this started and by the time the boys were 12/13 they knew what was going on and were starting to take small amounts out before they handed over their bags.

O/T because I am in no way suggesting this applies to L & E but I just want to share the lasting effects of this. Neither of the boys were 18 when they were busted for having robbed nearly every drug store in 2 counties. At 33/34 they have fathered 8 daughters and never been out of jail for more than 2 years at a time because they can't kick the drug habit they developed more than 2 decades ago thanks to our parents.

Further O/T. I have never gotten anything other than a speeding ticket nor have I ever experimented with drugs. My ex-SIL is one of my best friends and her theory is that I watched my parents fail miserably and learnt exactly what not to do. I lost my dad 6 years ago and while I love and miss him terribly I have always struggled to have a relationship with him and my mother.

I can't believe I'm sharing all this and please know it isn't for sympathy but simply because I think it is nearly impossible for the average person to really grasp that this sort of thing happens. We bat it around in theory but we want to believe that it is so far fetched that it is impossible. It happens far more often than we realize and in families that you would never expect, my dad was a respected, business owner from an upstanding, very religious family.

Now other than MCM's behavior I have no idea if any of this applies to L & E. I have no reason to believe Lyric was being used as a mule or if it is relevant to her abduction even if she was. I have felt from the beginning that the girls are very close to home. I rarely have gut feelings about these cases but I think these girls were lured away by a friendly face and were taken to a nearby home. It won't surprise me if a teenager is involved here. The only thing that gives me pause is the fact that they haven't been found yet. I keep thinking back to the case where the neighbor boy hid the little girl under his bed - teens generally don't hide their victims well so where are these girls?


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Thank you for sharing, you should be commended for growing up without the troubles your brothers had because of your parents. I had a best friend growing up who had a similar situation. When we were 10 her mom threw her out of her family home. She sent her to live with her aunt, mom's sister, and her uncle. Her mom was/ still is an alcoholic. When she went to live with her aunt and uncle she learned of their drug abuse and they moved a lot of drugs for big dealers. She got hooked on cocaine and alcohol when we were just 12, at that point I wasn't allowed to be with her but I still did talk to her just about everyday. She started making deliveries on her bike for them. When she was 15 she was driving all around making deliveries of cocaine. She was also being sexually abused by that same uncle, no one knew but me. She died of an overdose of prescription pain meds when we were 16. I will never forget her. I pray she is at peace...BTW, her aunt and uncle both worked for the county sheriffs dept. I think they moved or maybe were fired, I haven't seen them in years...so sad.

Just wanted to share, this world can be a very evil place at times.

 

[Bodhi]

When I grew up in SanDiego Calif at the age of 8 to 13, I rode many neighborhood blocks. I also want to clarify that I also was raised my very disfunctional parents who did drugs in front of me. That was in the late 70's and I guess I would call myself street wise at such a young age. I had many perps try to get me in their vehicles just walking a few blocks to school. What I'm getting to is coming from such a disfunctional drug ridden family makes for a child that is more apt to be mislead by some wacky characters.

What a dangerous environment to grow up in, cindersroot. Thanks for sharing your story with us.

 

[cindersoot]

I have a question for you all. The house that is for sale, it's also empty. Can I walk around the yards and look at it, kinda like Im looking to maybe buy it? Or, do you have to have a realestate agent present?

 

[Bodhi]

Thank you for sharing, you should be commended for growing up without the troubles your brothers had because of your parents. I had a best friend growing up who had a similar situation. When we were 10 her mom threw her out of her family home. She sent her to live with her aunt, mom's sister, and her uncle. Her mom was/ still is an alcoholic. When she went to live with her aunt and uncle she learned of their drug abuse and they moved a lot of drugs for big dealers. She got hooked on cocaine and alcohol when we were just 12, at that point I wasn't allowed to be with her but I still did talk to her just about everyday. She started making deliveries on her bike for them. When she was 15 she was driving all around making deliveries of cocaine. She was also being sexually abused by that same uncle, no one knew but me. She died of an overdose of prescription pain meds when we were 16. I will never forget her. I pray she is at peace...BTW, her aunt and uncle both worked for the county sheriffs dept. I think they moved or maybe were fired, I haven't seen them in years...so sad.

Just wanted to share, this world can be a very evil place at times.

Wow, whittymom4! So sad! She went from the frying pan to the fire. I can only imagine the impact that has had on you.

 

[vasportsmom]

Vasportsmom,

I am so glad that you made it through that minefield that you call childhood. Well Done. Many don't make it past those kinds of experiences. Thank you for sharing.

I know a lot of people keep saying that the families criminal drug background is just a distraction or a red herring. but I disagree. As you said, it can affect a child's life in so many ways. In my opinion it opens a child up to so many more vulnerable situations, so many more unsavory people, and rough experiences.

I do not think we can afford to ignore the parents background at all. They can still be victims and have their lifestyle be relevant. My brothers were 12 & 13 when they got their first drunk in public. My parents were each so desperate to have the boys like them best and want to live with them that they allowed them to take part in many inappropriate activities. They also had their first sexual experience that weekend because they were allowed to become drunk and then taken advantage of (in my eyes) by a woman that was partying with my father. So as you said, the parents lifestyle can and likely has exposed Lyric to many unsavory people and experiences.

With that said, it may all turn out to be irrelevant in the end but we can't just ignore it in the mean time. There is no doubt that DC & MCM won't be winning parent of the year but they can be victims in their daughters abduction without being innocent of having exposed her to the people or circumstances that led to it. IMO only.


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[Jax49]

Now other than MCM's behavior I have no idea if any of this applies to L & E. I have no reason to believe Lyric was being used as a mule or if it is relevant to her abduction even if she was. I have felt from the beginning that the girls are very close to home. I rarely have gut feelings about these cases but I think these girls were lured away by a friendly face and were taken to a nearby home. It won't surprise me if a teenager is involved here. The only thing that gives me pause is the fact that they haven't been found yet. I keep thinking back to the case where the neighbor boy hid the little girl under his bed - teens generally don't hide their victims well so where are these girls?


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SBM

BBM

I'm so glad you overcame your childhood and thank you for sharing an insider's view. The case you refer to was the first I became involved it. I was one of the thousands who searched for her. We all walked by the home where she was hidden. It was a week before she was found by the 14 year old murder's mother. Maddie Clifton's body had been in their home under the son's waterbed the whole time we searched. I remember we were all heart broken.

As I posted earlier in this thread, I can't keep thinking about all the victims found close to home. The good part of that thought is that its been two weeks and I'd think if they were deceased and still in the area they would have been found. Hopefully they are safe. lease:

 

[Sunlight]

How do you become a guardian of little kids, when at least 3 of your own children have major drug issues? MOO I don't get that. Am I wrong in asking that?

 

[whittymom4]

How do you become a guardian of little kids, when at least 3 of your own children have major drug issues? MOO I don't get that. Am I wrong in asking that?

No, I don't understand that at all! I agree with you...

 

[katydid23]

How do you become a guardian of little kids, when at least 3 of your own children have major drug issues? MOO I don't get that. Am I wrong in asking that?

I don't think a parent can be held responsible for choices their ADULT children make. You can be a wonderful parent, and still your grown kids might make lousy choices. Sometimes environment, genes, or random circumstances have a bigger impact than the way a person is raised, imo.

 

[whittymom4]

I have a question for you all. The house that is for sale, it's also empty. Can I walk around the yards and look at it, kinda like Im looking to maybe buy it? Or, do you have to have a realestate agent present?

That's what I am going to do, I don't think you have to have an agent. But I bet we get stopped or questioned...I am an hour from there, be there soon... Be careful! Oh, I read it is empty...no one lives there. We can look in the windows too, hopefully.

 

[vasportsmom]

I also don't think we can afford to ignore Elizabeth as the target. I have a first cousin that was raised by very strict, religious parents. Growing up she was kept on a very tight leash because her parents didn't want her exposed to "evil", i.e. she was never allowed in my room because her parents didn't want her seeing the typical boy band posters or hearing their music. At 13 she was given her first taste of freedom and she ran with it. She had her first son at 14 (her parents forced her and the father to marry).

We know that the girls were testing the rules by going much further than they should have, maybe that was just kids being kids but it is possible that it was Elizabeth not Lyric making the most of her new found freedom and getting in over her head. We all want to think of her as a young, innocent girl but the fact is that kids today are much more worldly and wise than they were just a generation ago. We simply can't afford to allow ourselves to get boxed in in regards to our thinking. These two young girls are still missing and thinking inside the box, going with the obvious has got us nowhere. Maybe it is time to throw out our old theories and come at it again from new angles.


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[Tramp123]

I've debated on posting this for days now but I'm just going to go ahead and do it. Much of what I'm about to say has been batted around as theories but I'm going to share my experiences.

Much has been made of MCM's demeanor and as a loving, devoted mother I too find it baffling but as the daughter of a woman like her I get it. My mother walked off when I was 5. The next time I saw her I was 10 and then I rarely saw her again until I was 13. By the time I moved in with her at 13 I didn't see her as a mother. I felt that I didn't need a "mom" at that point. I was pretty much raised and my grandmothers had did a d@mn good job of it. My mom also felt she had no right to parent me so we developed a sister or friend type relationship. That parental disconnect made for some very interesting dynamics and baffled most people looking in.

Now for the harder point. Again much has been said about the possibility of Lyric being used as a "mule". Both of my parents were involved with drugs, using and selling (growing on one side). Because they dealt in different types of illegals (pot & pills) they liked to trade between the two sets (to further own up to the dysfunction I was raised in my parents married a set of exes). Anyway their favorite way of trading was to put stuff in my brothers' bags as they traded them for weekend visits. My brothers were 10 & 11 when this started and by the time the boys were 12/13 they knew what was going on and were starting to take small amounts out before they handed over their bags.

O/T because I am in no way suggesting this applies to L & E but I just want to share the lasting effects of this. Neither of the boys were 18 when they were busted for having robbed nearly every drug store in 2 counties. At 33/34 they have fathered 8 daughters and never been out of jail for more than 2 years at a time because they can't kick the drug habit they developed more than 2 decades ago thanks to our parents.

Further O/T. I have never gotten anything other than a speeding ticket nor have I ever experimented with drugs. My ex-SIL is one of my best friends and her theory is that I watched my parents fail miserably and learnt exactly what not to do. I lost my dad 6 years ago and while I love and miss him terribly I have always struggled to have a relationship with him and my mother.

I can't believe I'm sharing all this and please know it isn't for sympathy but simply because I think it is nearly impossible for the average person to really grasp that this sort of thing happens. We bat it around in theory but we want to believe that it is so far fetched that it is impossible. It happens far more often than we realize and in families that you would never expect, my dad was a respected, business owner from an upstanding, very religious family.

Now other than MCM's behavior I have no idea if any of this applies to L & E. I have no reason to believe Lyric was being used as a mule or if it is relevant to her abduction even if she was. I have felt from the beginning that the girls are very close to home. I rarely have gut feelings about these cases but I think these girls were lured away by a friendly face and were taken to a nearby home. It won't surprise me if a teenager is involved here. The only thing that gives me pause is the fact that they haven't been found yet. I keep thinking back to the case where the neighbor boy hid the little girl under his bed - teens generally don't hide their victims well so where are these girls?


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Thanks so much for sharing.

 

[Sunlight]

That's what I am going to do, I don't think you have to have an agent. But I bet we get stopped or questioned...I am an hour from there, be there soon... Be careful! Oh, I read it is empty...no one lives there. We can look in the windows too, hopefully.

I wouldn't touch or move anything. Look for fabrics, strange smells, stuff like that...open windows, anything and photo it.

 

[vasportsmom]

I don't think a parent can be held responsible for choices their ADULT children make. You can be a wonderful parent, and still your grown kids might make lousy choices. Sometimes environment, genes, or random circumstances have a bigger impact than the way a person is raised, imo.

Thank you! My grandparents adopted and raised two children. Both of them have turned out to be drug users but it had nothing to do with their upbringing. Both of them will tell you they turned to drugs to get over the pain of knowing their bio mom didn't want them but that is nothing more than a BS excuse by two 50+ year old adults that aren't "man" enough to take responsibility enough for their own choices. Just as it is long past time for my brothers to quit blaming our parents for their criminal activities. Yes my parents are responsible for introducing them to drugs and that sucks but they are adults now with children that range in age from 6-14 and it is time for them to man up and be the father those girls deserve. You simply can not hold a parent responsible for choices that their adult children make.


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[whittymom4]

Thanks for sharing that with us, vasportsmom! I'm glad you were able to overcome it and create a happy, stable environment as an adult. Your grandmothers would be very proud of you!

I like your theory about someone right around the lake, possibly a teen, taking the girls. It also makes me think about Jessica Lunsford, who was right across street, in the glow of all the the media lights.

That is what I am thinking. Jessica Lundsford case. So evil. John Evander Couey walks in to her room, puts his hand over her mouth telling her not to make a noise. Takes her right across the street, keeps her in his room, in a closet, rapes her over and over then buries her in the yard, ALIVE! he did let her take her favorite stuffed animal with her. When she was found there was evidence that she tried to get out of the bag/grave she was in. I pray she is at peace.
JEC can rot in he'll, where I hope he is, or purgatory, whatever I just hope he is suffering... Well I can't drive and text so I better get going, on to Evansdale...going to look at her neighborhood...

 

[whittymom4]

I wouldn't touch or move anything. Look for fabrics, strange smells, stuff like that...open windows, anything and photo it.

Will do...

 

[vasportsmom]

Thank you for all the kind words many of you have offered me (if there is a way to multi-quote using Tapatalk I haven't found it so I can't thank you by name). I didn't share my story for that reason but I appreciate it nonetheless. Overcoming my childhood wasn't easy but I knew from a young age that I wanted something different for myself and my future children. I have two boys that are 12 & 16 and I can't imagine walking away from them or raising them in the environment that I grew up in. I struggle daily to find a balance between holding them close to keep them from being exposed to the evils I know are out there and allowing them to just be normal kids but I think my husband and I have did a pretty good job.

I also want to thank the 2 of you that are going to search on your own today. I can't get over the feeling that those girls are close yet I'm torn between hoping you don't find them and wanting them found so they can come home one way or the other. Bless you and please be careful.


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