IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #1

[HeartofTexas]

Julianne, I read some of Icke's stuff but, personally, I consider him too far out in left field to garner anything but "conspiracy nut" labels. There are other sites that offer valid information that I consider to be more mainstream. Understand, I'm not saying whether or not what he says is true or not... and I feel certain many things are true. But the totality of his package leaves me shaking my head. However, I definitely believe there are pedophile rings in not only the U.S. but all over the world.

Kazzbar, I know Godzorphan will be able to offer you many websites but I thought I would give you one nice, uncontroversial site to begin your journey. Almost any site you read at will offer additional information for other websites, so just follow the trail where it leads you. If you read something that seems too outlandish or too controversial, go back to the previous site and try to find another link that is easier to digest. I warn you, however, that much of what you read will make you wish you never started on the journey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Coverup_Scandal

 

[Shadow205]

I posted this in the other thread over in "Crimes In The News" but thought it should go here too:

Police continue to look at Gosch photos


West Des Moines police say they continue to investigate photos that appear to show Johnny Gosch, the West Des Moines boy who disappeared at age 12 in 1982.

Noreen Gosch said she received the photos the last weekend of August. She told The Des Moines Register she believed at least two of the photos contained her son

more at the link http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060907/NEWS08/609070389/1001/NEWS

The way the above is written, it sounds like there are more than the two photos that we have seen.

 

[julianne]

Most notably, he believes that we're ruled by extraterrestrial lizards...
But, you know, that might just be a metaphor.

Anyway, I think people mostly scoff at him because of the lizard thing.

:laugh: I don't think he intends it to be a metaphor, but I agree that he loses alot of people regarding the "lizard thing"-----myself included.

I don't know his whole take on it because it's sooooo "out there" that I couldn't even continue on that subject.

 

[julianne]

Julianne, I read some of Icke's stuff but, personally, I consider him too far out in left field to garner anything but "conspiracy nut" labels. There are other sites that offer valid information that I consider to be more mainstream. Understand, I'm not saying whether or not what he says is true or not... and I feel certain many things are true. But the totality of his package leaves me shaking my head. However, I definitely believe there are pedophile rings in not only the U.S. but all over the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Coverup_Scandal

I hear ya, HeartofTexas. He definitely loses me on the "Reptilian Agenda", LOL, I had to stop reading that part because that whole "Ruled by Lizards who live underground" is just, well....beyond bizarre and I'm chuckling as I am typing just thinking about it. There are, however, some interesting things on his site....just need to wade thru the "incredibly ludicrous" to get to the "could be plausible" stuff.

 

[Tranaice]

Godzorphan, I just want you to know that I agree totally with all of your posts. I lived in Des Moines shortly after Johnny Gosch was kidnapped and when Eugene Martin was kidnapped. This is such a sad story, but nothing about our government would surprise me anymore. I live in Tennessee now, and I have personally seen some things within our own government here that make me cringe. There are some sick, sick people out there and when they get some power, there is no limit to what they can do. I do believe there is a big coverup, I don't know to what extent it is, but I do pray that one day everything will come out in the open and the ones still alive have to pay for what they did and do to these poor children every day.

 

[godzorphan]

Hi Godzorphan, I am an Aussie and had never heard of Johnny until a week ago when these photos turned up.Can you give me any links to catch up with all this franklin stuff. I do not normally like to ask because I do not like being a pain but would like to learn more. Thankyou in advance.Kazz.

Hi Kazz,
Not sure of any clean links so I"m going to suggest you just get the book on Amazon and go from there:
http://www.amazon.com/Franklin-Cover-Up-Satanism-Murder-Nebraska/dp/0963215809

Take care,

G

 

[godzorphan]

HeartofTexas--

David Icke has info on his website about pedo sex rings. I quoted your post because it totally describes how I felt/feel after reading his book "The Biggest Secret." Talk about everything you believed your whole life being taken away....after I read this book, I literally felt like I was walking around in a state of shock for a week....

Anyway, has anybody here read the book? Icke firmly believes that the child sex rings happen.....he believes alot of things that the general public would surely scoff at, Bohemian Grove, etc. Fascinating to me!

Forgive any misstepping, but Icke is one of the people who has taken some basic truths and thrown it in with a bunch of wacko stuff and the results are (1) Everyone who reads is it is overwhelmed, (2) No one knows what's true and what's not, and (3) When we come across a legit case of c/p or child trade or occult crime, we're thrown into the same "nutcase" basket as Icke.

 

[godzorphan]

someone had mentioned the Ponchatoula, LA cult earlier, it was big news around here but I dont quite remember the outcome of the investigation...

http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/asp/cases/Hosanna.html
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/satanistslouisanachurch08jul05.shtml (this link touched on the gosch case)
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/083234.php
I'm not sure what i think about all of this, i guess anything is possible but it all sounds so kooky.

When the case first broke in Ponchatoula, we were in touch with the pd there - I had sent some info and pleaded with them not to allow the FBI to get too far involved or they would bury it. Apparently they brought their old "occult expert" out of cold storage (retirement, in fact) and sent him down there to yell, threaten and humiliate the PD and the chief and warn them to just forget ANY reference to the occult in the case. And I never heard any outcome after that. But when a man comes forward and CONFESSES to having rituals, killing animals and raping kids and videotaping them, and a number of other people are arrested for participating, it is HIGHLY disturbing to me that someone feels it is so crucial to bury any occult reference. Talk about having an agenda. I just wish I could figure out what this guy's is.

 

[godzorphan]

:laugh: I don't think he intends it to be a metaphor, but I agree that he loses alot of people regarding the "lizard thing"-----myself included.

I don't know his whole take on it because it's sooooo "out there" that I couldn't even continue on that subject.

Oh, I don't know...how do I explain these scales I've been growing???

 

[julianne]

Forgive any misstepping, but Icke is one of the people who has taken some basic truths and thrown it in with a bunch of wacko stuff and the results are (1) Everyone who reads is it is overwhelmed, (2) No one knows what's true and what's not, and (3) When we come across a legit case of c/p or child trade or occult crime, we're thrown into the same "nutcase" basket as Icke.

No misstepping at all, gozorphan. I agree with everything you said.

 

[godzorphan]

Godzorphan, I just want you to know that I agree totally with all of your posts. I lived in Des Moines shortly after Johnny Gosch was kidnapped and when Eugene Martin was kidnapped. This is such a sad story, but nothing about our government would surprise me anymore. I live in Tennessee now, and I have personally seen some things within our own government here that make me cringe. There are some sick, sick people out there and when they get some power, there is no limit to what they can do. I do believe there is a big coverup, I don't know to what extent it is, but I do pray that one day everything will come out in the open and the ones still alive have to pay for what they did and do to these poor children every day.

I agree and it is so hard to know it goes on, and that it does reach so high. When I first got into this line of work, I was so naive. Living on the border educated me to the reality of how corrupt it can be, how officials can be bribed, blackmailed and paid off. People scoff at high level cover ups. But even in the CIA they have programs where they sexually compromise an "asset" and get photos, and then that person is permanently at their beck and call. Well, if you get pictures say, of a senator etc in sexual acts with a child, then you have a guarantee that if you need a "favor" to cover something up, you have someone in place. It's big business, this child thing. I suppose I should go look at the JBR/John Karr posts too, but it was disturbing that this guy was hauled back from Tailand. Years ago I learned through the author/attorney Andrew Vachss that Pattaya, Tailand was a virtual paradise for pedos - you could literally book a tour, get a hotel, and buy a kid - for an hour, a day, a week, or permanently (with clean disposal your responsibility) if you wish. How disturbing is that to know? No wonder Karr was there. And what a crock to hear that Thai authorities were "anxious" to clean up this prombem. Right. This is how a lot of people make money over there. It's just a business.

I have a lot of thoughts on JBR case but there a little out there - just possibilities. Maybe I'll post somewhere on the site.

 

[FourthBase]

Apparently they brought their old "occult expert" out of cold storage (retirement, in fact) and sent him down there to yell, threaten and humiliate the PD and the chief and warn them to just forget ANY reference to the occult in the case.

Ken Lanning, I presume?

 

[Tranaice]

I agree and it is so hard to know it goes on, and that it does reach so high. When I first got into this line of work, I was so naive. Living on the border educated me to the reality of how corrupt it can be, how officials can be bribed, blackmailed and paid off. People scoff at high level cover ups. But even in the CIA they have programs where they sexually compromise an "asset" and get photos, and then that person is permanently at their beck and call. Well, if you get pictures say, of a senator etc in sexual acts with a child, then you have a guarantee that if you need a "favor" to cover something up, you have someone in place. It's big business, this child thing. I suppose I should go look at the JBR/John Karr posts too, but it was disturbing that this guy was hauled back from Tailand. Years ago I learned through the author/attorney Andrew Vachss that Pattaya, Tailand was a virtual paradise for pedos - you could literally book a tour, get a hotel, and buy a kid - for an hour, a day, a week, or permanently (with clean disposal your responsibility) if you wish. How disturbing is that to know? No wonder Karr was there. And what a crock to hear that Thai authorities were "anxious" to clean up this prombem. Right. This is how a lot of people make money over there. It's just a business.

Exactly! Nothing would surprise me when it comes to the government. It's just so sad that it's our children who have to pay for their perverted wants and needs. I've always heard that Thailand was a paradise for pedos, and it just makes me sick that they let their children be abused like that.

 

[Nocgirl]

Congressman Barney Frank is mentioned in all of this several times, as having sex with kids. He is openly homosexual. He did stumble into some bad publicity a few years ago when a friend of his was using his gov't apartment to run his prostitution business, but is he a child molester? I am surprised Mre Frank has not addressed these allegations.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

The way the above is written at least two of the photos contained her son. It sounds like there were more than the 2 photos that we have seen. If that is the case, I sure would like to see the rest of the photos.

You might not be able to if they're actually kid *advertiser censored*.

 

[godzorphan]

Congressman Barney Frank is mentioned in all of this several times, as having sex with kids. He is openly homosexual. He did stumble into some bad publicity a few years ago when a friend of his was using his gov't apartment to run his prostitution business, but is he a child molester? I am surprised Mre Frank has not addressed these allegations.

I wouldn't dare make that suggestion of course. But the fact is, according to the Franklin info, a number of congressional people were in, demos, republicans etc. So we don't know. But who knows. Child pervs come in all colors, stripes and sexualities.

 

[godzorphan]

I had a whole post lost while retrieving this link. Well, here goes, reluctantly, since there is obviously someone who posts with the idea that ritual crime is nonexistent. I hope they just let it go.

I became involved in the Wetterling case after seeing of his abduction just before Halloween that year, and remarking to a friend that if he was killed in a ritual he would probably be better off than if a sex ring got hold of him; that would be a life sentence in hell. I had already been training on occult crimes for a year, and knew a blond/blue kid disappearing just before a ritual date wasn't good; but also not good because blue eyed kids are known as "high dollar" kids in the sex industry.

In any event, I did a lot of footwork tracking down leads and info on Gosch case related to Franklin (possibly.) Later a friend got an interview given him by an officer on the east side of the country with a woman who claimed to part of a traveling occult group. She claimed they were responsible for Jacob's murder in a ritual. The officer verified the woman's claims that they broke into churches called "St Joseph's" and did night rituals, incl. animal sacrifices, from priests who found evidence of such in their churches. So it peaked my interest to read a previous post about a body being found w/o hands, head etc. matching his descript. Police said footprints didn't match; OK. Poster said it was a cover-up; don't know. But the runner claimed he was disposed of near the river north of where he disappeared...in any event I probably should revisit this and see if I can reconnect with the ofc. & compare info...

But also, having seen a couple of other composites, one of the Wetterling abductor, the next of the abductor of Chuckie Mauk of GA in similar manner, and third of the head of the group that took Gosch according to a boy who claimed he helped the abduction. (we even have a name for that alleged abductor.

I thought it would be of interest to post those three (very poorly copied) composites on my website and see if anyone thinks they look similar. Here's the link:

http://www.gregoryreid.com/id187.htm

I've always felt the two cases (Wetterling/Gosch) could be related. But who knows? One thing is for sure: unlike some others, I have found I can maintain healthy skepticism and STILL not throw out ANYTHING because it sounds too "out there." Even in some cases where we got a lot of crap info, we got some very good intel - intel we would have lost if we dismissed it out of hand because it was too "crazy."

G

 

[CrimeHater]

Is there the possibility that these photos have been in Noreen's possession since 1982, or earlier?

I thought about this too. I thought this may be a way to keep her son's kidnapping in the spot light. If it is true- how did she determine when to bring out the pictures, why that day versus last year or two years ago. Another thing... how on earth did she hold on to those photos and not turn them in. You would think they would be a huge help back then, but then she claims LE wasn't really helping her. Either way... I hope we find out. I feel for this lady.

 

[Shadow205]

You might not be able to if they're actually kid *advertiser censored*.

I thought of that too BillygoatGruff, that could be why only the two have been released. I guess a better way to say what I was trying to say is I would like to see if we could identify any of the others in the photos if there are others. LE could edit the pictures to show only the faces, maybe.

 

[surelock]

godzorphan-Wow the "rocking x" brand is a curiousity that I've not seen mentioned before.

What significance to you attribute to this particular brand? Was it just used on Johnny Gosch or do you know of others who were branded with the same brand and in the same location?

Do you have any idea if it was a registered brand (for livestock) or if it was something peculiar to a particular person or group? It seems that this would be a significant clue.

Sorry if I seem to be grilling you it's just that new info is always welcome in this frustrating and frightening case.