godzorphan
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not at all. my understanding is that the rocking x was a brand used on a stable of kids - possibly at a ranch outside of colorado city CO.
IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #1
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SleuthingSleuth
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Strangely...the middle boy in the "3 pose" picture looks more like Johnny Gosch than the boy in the 15 shirt.
Compare with the Gosch picture here:
http://www.johnnygosch.com/history.htm
Maybe just me though...
Compare with the Gosch picture here:
http://www.johnnygosch.com/history.htm
Maybe just me though...
Dr. Doogie
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Among all of the disturbing bits of information that has come out concerning Johhny Gosch and the possible involvement of organized pedo rings, one of the most personally disturbing accusations is the mentioning of Dr. Hunter S. Thompson as an active participant. I have always been a fan of HST's writing and respected his "tell it the way it is" style of journalism (with some theatrical embellishments, of course).
One of the child whistleblowers in the Franklin case specifically states that HST was involved with the Franklin group (and the Bohemian Grove occult ceremonies). The informant also stated that Thompson had filmed various aspects of the child auctions. It should be stated also that HST lived in Boulder, CO for most of his adult life (the CO connection again?).
Either tellingly or coincidently, within 24 hours of the first post questioning whether Jeff Gannon was Johhny Gosch, HST committed suicide by gunshot.
Does anyone know any information concerning possible involvement by Thompson in these rings?
One of the child whistleblowers in the Franklin case specifically states that HST was involved with the Franklin group (and the Bohemian Grove occult ceremonies). The informant also stated that Thompson had filmed various aspects of the child auctions. It should be stated also that HST lived in Boulder, CO for most of his adult life (the CO connection again?).
Either tellingly or coincidently, within 24 hours of the first post questioning whether Jeff Gannon was Johhny Gosch, HST committed suicide by gunshot.
Does anyone know any information concerning possible involvement by Thompson in these rings?
godzorphan
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Only what I read in the Franklin book. According to that, he was the chief filmer on a child snuff flick. Obviously no proof but I believe that he also killed himself shortly after Troy Boner's unfortunate death in Albuquerque.Dr. Doogie said:
Noreen Gosch asked, "What is the message?" I am too. Jon Benet, Johnny...maybe the message is that they are "housecleaning" and still can take care of people who get out of line.
I always thought John Ramsey's boss, Fleet White, could have been asked a few more questions. But that's just me.
Certainly nothing in Hunter Thompson's philosophy, anarchistic lifestyle or behavior suggests he was ABOVE this kind of behavior.
You know, I wish all our monsters looked like monsters. Especially famous ones. If they were all ugly, poor pervs we could sort of rest at night.
thelmadawg
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I'm a little amazed that the media hasn't done some investigative reporting on this case. If the pictures are genuine, why isn't media all over this?
Richmond Times-Dispatch
May 2, 1987
Author: Mark Holmberg
Times-Dispatch staff writer
Johnny's father, John Gosch, said there is no question that his son was kidnapped. He said other paperboys talked to the kidnapper that morning and a good description of the car he used, including some of the numbers on the license plate, was pieced together.
Gosch, now employed by America Cyanamid in West Des Moines, remains convinced that local police moved too slowly. "They took the easy way out," said Gosch over the telephone Thursday night. "They figured he was a runaway."
Gosch and his wife launched an all-out campaign to find their son. For four years private investigators were on the case, costing $200,000.
There have been about 15 reported sightings of the boy, mostly in the South and Southwest. According to press accounts from eyewitnesses, many of these sightings ended with a man dragging Johnny away.
In mid-1985, a dollar bill came into circulation with the words "I am alive. Johnny Gosch" written on it. Three handwriting analysts have identified the signature as Johnny Gosch's.
Even more agonizing were the three calls, each less than 40 seconds long and just minutes apart, that Mrs. Gosch received in March of 1984. She recognized her son's voice, pleading for help. Each conversation was terminated by the phone being slammed down.
"Even though we haven't found our son yet, the person who took him is still out there," said Gosch, who has two children older than Johnny. "Those kind of people have a profile -- they will do it again and again until they get caught."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Tribune
August 21, 1985
Author: Bob Greene
Witnesses said that they had seen a middle-aged man with dark eyes, black hair and a mustache talking to Johnny minutes before he disappeared.
(My note: Does the above represent a self described description of Paul Bonnacio (sp?) who claimed to have been one of the two abductors of Johnny Gosch?
Interesting case! Tragic. As has probably been discussed, the photos suggest 1) that Johnny was kept alive for an indeterminate period of time. That the perp had the capability to keep several children at one time under his control (was there more than one perp?). That if the photos are authentic, this perp almost certainly had other victims? Are there young boys missing from around this time period from other states?
So many questions; so few answers.
Richmond Times-Dispatch
May 2, 1987
Author: Mark Holmberg
Times-Dispatch staff writer
Johnny's father, John Gosch, said there is no question that his son was kidnapped. He said other paperboys talked to the kidnapper that morning and a good description of the car he used, including some of the numbers on the license plate, was pieced together.
Gosch, now employed by America Cyanamid in West Des Moines, remains convinced that local police moved too slowly. "They took the easy way out," said Gosch over the telephone Thursday night. "They figured he was a runaway."
Gosch and his wife launched an all-out campaign to find their son. For four years private investigators were on the case, costing $200,000.
There have been about 15 reported sightings of the boy, mostly in the South and Southwest. According to press accounts from eyewitnesses, many of these sightings ended with a man dragging Johnny away.
In mid-1985, a dollar bill came into circulation with the words "I am alive. Johnny Gosch" written on it. Three handwriting analysts have identified the signature as Johnny Gosch's.
Even more agonizing were the three calls, each less than 40 seconds long and just minutes apart, that Mrs. Gosch received in March of 1984. She recognized her son's voice, pleading for help. Each conversation was terminated by the phone being slammed down.
"Even though we haven't found our son yet, the person who took him is still out there," said Gosch, who has two children older than Johnny. "Those kind of people have a profile -- they will do it again and again until they get caught."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Tribune
August 21, 1985
Author: Bob Greene
Witnesses said that they had seen a middle-aged man with dark eyes, black hair and a mustache talking to Johnny minutes before he disappeared.
(My note: Does the above represent a self described description of Paul Bonnacio (sp?) who claimed to have been one of the two abductors of Johnny Gosch?
Interesting case! Tragic. As has probably been discussed, the photos suggest 1) that Johnny was kept alive for an indeterminate period of time. That the perp had the capability to keep several children at one time under his control (was there more than one perp?). That if the photos are authentic, this perp almost certainly had other victims? Are there young boys missing from around this time period from other states?
So many questions; so few answers.
thelmadawg
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A new thread to discuss this tragic case, and some new (old, but not currently reported) info about the incident. Why hasn't the media done some investigative reporting on this? If the pictures are authentic, the perp or a close ally are still around. Briefly he was abducted in 1982, (thanks "twinkiesmom")and new photos, as discussed elsewhere, are in the hands of Des Moines authorities. Bizarre intrigue, frustration and pedophile conspiracy theories followed over the years.
There is somewhere, according to some accounts I don't have a link for, a sketch of the alleged perp. Does this alleged perp (above) match the self described description of Paul Bonnacio (sp?) who claims to have been one of two abductors of Johnny? If the pictures are authentic, Johnny was kept alive for an indeterminate amount of time along with at least two other boys.
A fascinating and tragic case. Can we put our minds to it, avoiding for the most part the conspiracy theories?
Background:
On Sunday, September 5, 1982, in the affluent suburb of West Des Moines, Johnny Gosch left home for his paper route before dawn. Though it was customary for Johnny to wake his father to help with the route, the boy took only the family dog, Gretchen, with him that morning. Other paper carriers for The Des Moines Register would later report having seen Gosch at the paper drop, picking up his newspapers. It was the last sighting of Johnny Gosch that can be corroborated by multiple witnesses. Gosch was last seen wearing blue rubber thong sandals, warm up exercise pants, and a white sweatshirt reading "Kim's Academy" on the back.
On September 1, 2006, CNN reported that Gosch's mother found two photographs left at her front door, which she posted on her website. One photo apparently shows her son and two other boys bound and gagged. The second photo appears to show 12-year-old Johnny Gosch with his mouth gagged, his hands and feet tied, and an apparent human brand on his shoulder. (Wikipedia - abbreviated)
While none of the contemporary accounts give much detail for the actual abduction, earlier accounts offer a little additional insight --
Richmond Times-Dispatch
May 2, 1987
Author: Mark Holmberg
Times-Dispatch staff writer
Johnny's father, John Gosch, said there is no question that his son was kidnapped. He said other paperboys talked to the kidnapper that morning and a good description of the car he used, including some of the numbers on the license plate, was pieced together.
Gosch, now employed by America Cyanamid in West Des Moines, remains convinced that local police moved too slowly. "They took the easy way out," said Gosch over the telephone Thursday night. "They figured he was a runaway."
Gosch and his wife launched an all-out campaign to find their son. For four years private investigators were on the case, costing $200,000.
There have been about 15 reported sightings of the boy, mostly in the South and Southwest. According to press accounts from eyewitnesses, many of these sightings ended with a man dragging Johnny away.
In mid-1985, a dollar bill came into circulation with the words "I am alive. Johnny Gosch" written on it. Three handwriting analysts have identified the signature as Johnny Gosch's.
Even more agonizing were the three calls, each less than 40 seconds long and just minutes apart, that Mrs. Gosch received in March of 1984. She recognized her son's voice, pleading for help. Each conversation was terminated by the phone being slammed down.
"Even though we haven't found our son yet, the person who took him is still out there," said Gosch, who has two children older than Johnny. "Those kind of people have a profile -- they will do it again and again until they get caught."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Tribune
August 21, 1985
Author: Bob Greene
Witnesses said that they had seen a middle-aged man with dark eyes, black hair and a mustache talking to Johnny minutes before he disappeared.
-------------------------------------------------------------
There is somewhere, according to some accounts I don't have a link for, a sketch of the alleged perp. Does this alleged perp (above) match the self described description of Paul Bonnacio (sp?) who claims to have been one of two abductors of Johnny? If the pictures are authentic, Johnny was kept alive for an indeterminate amount of time along with at least two other boys.
A fascinating and tragic case. Can we put our minds to it, avoiding for the most part the conspiracy theories?
Background:
On Sunday, September 5, 1982, in the affluent suburb of West Des Moines, Johnny Gosch left home for his paper route before dawn. Though it was customary for Johnny to wake his father to help with the route, the boy took only the family dog, Gretchen, with him that morning. Other paper carriers for The Des Moines Register would later report having seen Gosch at the paper drop, picking up his newspapers. It was the last sighting of Johnny Gosch that can be corroborated by multiple witnesses. Gosch was last seen wearing blue rubber thong sandals, warm up exercise pants, and a white sweatshirt reading "Kim's Academy" on the back.
On September 1, 2006, CNN reported that Gosch's mother found two photographs left at her front door, which she posted on her website. One photo apparently shows her son and two other boys bound and gagged. The second photo appears to show 12-year-old Johnny Gosch with his mouth gagged, his hands and feet tied, and an apparent human brand on his shoulder. (Wikipedia - abbreviated)
While none of the contemporary accounts give much detail for the actual abduction, earlier accounts offer a little additional insight --
Richmond Times-Dispatch
May 2, 1987
Author: Mark Holmberg
Times-Dispatch staff writer
Johnny's father, John Gosch, said there is no question that his son was kidnapped. He said other paperboys talked to the kidnapper that morning and a good description of the car he used, including some of the numbers on the license plate, was pieced together.
Gosch, now employed by America Cyanamid in West Des Moines, remains convinced that local police moved too slowly. "They took the easy way out," said Gosch over the telephone Thursday night. "They figured he was a runaway."
Gosch and his wife launched an all-out campaign to find their son. For four years private investigators were on the case, costing $200,000.
There have been about 15 reported sightings of the boy, mostly in the South and Southwest. According to press accounts from eyewitnesses, many of these sightings ended with a man dragging Johnny away.
In mid-1985, a dollar bill came into circulation with the words "I am alive. Johnny Gosch" written on it. Three handwriting analysts have identified the signature as Johnny Gosch's.
Even more agonizing were the three calls, each less than 40 seconds long and just minutes apart, that Mrs. Gosch received in March of 1984. She recognized her son's voice, pleading for help. Each conversation was terminated by the phone being slammed down.
"Even though we haven't found our son yet, the person who took him is still out there," said Gosch, who has two children older than Johnny. "Those kind of people have a profile -- they will do it again and again until they get caught."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Tribune
August 21, 1985
Author: Bob Greene
Witnesses said that they had seen a middle-aged man with dark eyes, black hair and a mustache talking to Johnny minutes before he disappeared.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Breaks my heart everytime i come onto this thread. Seems to me that who ever took Johnny may have been liveing in a mobile kind of environment. One of our good fellow posters mentioned trailers or RV's. Could this be a possibility?
twinkiesmom
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He was kidnapped in 1982 not 1984.
Paul Bonacci would have been a teenager at the time.
Paul Bonacci would have been a teenager at the time.
godzorphan
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Yes, I understand John Ramsey worked for Fleet White's SMALL computer co. in Georgia - the company got huge (how about that) and John and Patsy were moved to Colorado, where their financial status changed radically. Shortly thereafter they opened ANOTHER computer co. in Amsterdam, Holland...hm.laini said:
HeartofTexas
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I'm not sure your information is right on that, GO... Fleet and his family were in the oil business and were from California. I don't they ever lived in Georgia.
Leila
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Although I"m not familiar with the case, I did see the news report of the two pictures sent to Johnny's mother.
Fox News O'Reilly Factor did an interview with Mrs. Gosch and her private investigator twice this week. Mrs. Gosch stated that at 2:30 one morning she was awoken by a man who came to her house and said he was her son, Johnny. He identified himself by showing her a birthmark on his stomach. They sat and talked for about 2 hours in her living room. He was very frightened. He told her the story of what had happened to him. He told her that he had been abducted by a child *advertiser censored*/prostitution ring. He said that if they knew he was there and talking they would kill him. He gave her names of the individuals who had abducted him. Mrs. Gosch wanted to call the police or her private investigator, and Johnny told her if she called anyone, he would leave. He feared for his life. He left, and she later called her private investigator and the police.
Fox News O'Reilly Factor did an interview with Mrs. Gosch and her private investigator twice this week. Mrs. Gosch stated that at 2:30 one morning she was awoken by a man who came to her house and said he was her son, Johnny. He identified himself by showing her a birthmark on his stomach. They sat and talked for about 2 hours in her living room. He was very frightened. He told her the story of what had happened to him. He told her that he had been abducted by a child *advertiser censored*/prostitution ring. He said that if they knew he was there and talking they would kill him. He gave her names of the individuals who had abducted him. Mrs. Gosch wanted to call the police or her private investigator, and Johnny told her if she called anyone, he would leave. He feared for his life. He left, and she later called her private investigator and the police.
I thought that was in the summer of 1986 when that was found. Also, wasn't that found in Colorado?thelmadawg said:
I seem to recall also that the morning of the kidnapping, WHO radio had broadcast an alert that there may have been a kidnapping in West DSM but then back peddled later that morning.
Actspeaklouder
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And that means what Twinkiesmom? Check the web for crimes committed by teenagers. Being young no longer dismisses one from being involved with crimes; according to the last time I read/heard news accounts (which was today). :snooty: It may, very well indeeed, LEGALLY give them a "way out" from they're choices however, teenagers are as much involved in crime as are "adults". TRES pathetic, but a realitytwinkiesmom said:
My :twocents:,from looking at both sides (okay,ooookay; so I'm fed up with crime and morons, inclusive of but not limited to some of the "innocent young of our society; an oxymoron, imooc)
:croc:
Bobbisangel
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I saw the mother and someone else on I believe it was Nancy or Catherine a couple days ago. The pictures were shown then too. I feel so sorry for the mom. I wonder why Johnny hasn't contacted her since that visit? He could call her...he is a man now. If he is still alive why doesn't he call her and ease her mind? Her story about all that is involved in Johnny's case is really hard to swollow and if it is true it scares me to death. I believe that there are rich big wigs involved in stuff like this. A lot of rich...and the middle and poor are no better...have no morals or values. They think because they have a title and lots of money they can do anything that they want. I'm sure that it isn't just your regular Joe that is a pervert. The rich can just hide it better and pay for silence. This has a lot of politics surrounding it according to Johnny's mom and the ex-senator, etc. This bothers me because of the time of year the story is hitting the headlines and news stations...an election year. President Bush's name was even mentioned...the mom thought that Johnny was using another name and working around President Bush. I don't like that because I don't believe that President Bush is corrupt. I might not agree with every decision that he has made or that the Congress and Senate has gone over his head and made but he is my President and I believe that he is a good person and I think that Laura Bush is a jewel.
I would like to read that book about the "Franklin Connection" I believe it is called. In a link on here there was quite a bit about this whole thing and I read that. Scary. They talked about "The New World Order" and that really got my attention. That is talked about in the bible and how it will take place in the last days. It is not a good thing...it has to do with the antichrist. If memory serves me these people are involved in bringing it together or think they are. I'm going to make a copy of the stuff on that link and send it to my brother-in-law. He is a strong christian and knows the bible upside down and sideways. I want his opinion on this.
I would like to read that book about the "Franklin Connection" I believe it is called. In a link on here there was quite a bit about this whole thing and I read that. Scary. They talked about "The New World Order" and that really got my attention. That is talked about in the bible and how it will take place in the last days. It is not a good thing...it has to do with the antichrist. If memory serves me these people are involved in bringing it together or think they are. I'm going to make a copy of the stuff on that link and send it to my brother-in-law. He is a strong christian and knows the bible upside down and sideways. I want his opinion on this.
WAIT....Someone HERE on WS posted something about how they (the poster) found a dollar bill, crumpled into a wad, on a table in a restaurant, and they took it.....Trocaria said:
I'm going to find the post and will paste & copy it....
I FOUND IT!!! It's dated December 2004.
Strange. Here's the post, but I guess I was wrong. I thought this poster found a dollar bill that said "I'm alive, Johnny Gosch"---but it said "I'm alive, Eugene Martin."
Anyway, I copied & pasted and here it is:
#47
12-01-2004, 03:15 PM
greenray
vbmenu_register("postmenu_457105", true);
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2
I found this forum when I did a google search on Eugene Martin. 17 years ago I was in a restaurant in an affluent neighborhood of Chicago. As I was leaving I noticed a balled up dollar bill on a nearby table. The table hadn't been cleared yet and I thought someone might think that's garbage and throw it out. I picked it up to give it directly to the waiter. As I walked to the front of the restaurant I uncrumpled the bill and saw written on it "I'm alive Eugene Martin." I thought it was so strange that I kept the bill and a couple of days later I thought to call the National Center for Missing Children. I was shocked when they told me that he was an abducted child. I was told that he was 13 when he was kidnapped and would now be 17. I asked if they wanted me to send them the bill and I was told that I could photocopy it and send it in if I wanted. The person I talked to didn't convey any sense of urgency or even much interest in it.
A few days ago I suddenly wondered if he had ever been found. I have no idea why it occurred to me after all these years. I went to the NCMEC website and saw that he has never been found. For the first time, I read the story about his abduction. Somehow, finding out his story made it seem so much more real and it brought me to tears. I began to wonder if anyone had ever told his family about the message I had found so that they would at least know that he was still alive at that time.
I felt kind of silly but I called NCMEC and asked if there was any record of it and I was told there wasn't. She suggested that I contact the Des Moines police if I wanted any more information. I didn't do it as it seems like such a small piece of information from so long ago.
Anyway, I just thought I'd add that information here. I'm not sure exactly what the purpose of this website is, but people here at least seem interested. I felt so upset that I had apparently been sitting right near Eugene and then found his note and that there was no happy ending.
End of post.
How strange--could there have really been 2 dollars bills found? I'm not questioning the authenticity of the above post because I have no reason to, BUT if it's true, it really lends credence to the fact that Johnny Gosch and Eugene Martin were together and that they each tried to get these messages out. I realize it could've been a hoax, also.....but on the flip side of the coin....it may not have been.
Strange. Here's the post, but I guess I was wrong. I thought this poster found a dollar bill that said "I'm alive, Johnny Gosch"---but it said "I'm alive, Eugene Martin."
Anyway, I copied & pasted and here it is:#47
greenray
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2
I found this forum when I did a google search on Eugene Martin. 17 years ago I was in a restaurant in an affluent neighborhood of Chicago. As I was leaving I noticed a balled up dollar bill on a nearby table. The table hadn't been cleared yet and I thought someone might think that's garbage and throw it out. I picked it up to give it directly to the waiter. As I walked to the front of the restaurant I uncrumpled the bill and saw written on it "I'm alive Eugene Martin." I thought it was so strange that I kept the bill and a couple of days later I thought to call the National Center for Missing Children. I was shocked when they told me that he was an abducted child. I was told that he was 13 when he was kidnapped and would now be 17. I asked if they wanted me to send them the bill and I was told that I could photocopy it and send it in if I wanted. The person I talked to didn't convey any sense of urgency or even much interest in it.
A few days ago I suddenly wondered if he had ever been found. I have no idea why it occurred to me after all these years. I went to the NCMEC website and saw that he has never been found. For the first time, I read the story about his abduction. Somehow, finding out his story made it seem so much more real and it brought me to tears. I began to wonder if anyone had ever told his family about the message I had found so that they would at least know that he was still alive at that time.
I felt kind of silly but I called NCMEC and asked if there was any record of it and I was told there wasn't. She suggested that I contact the Des Moines police if I wanted any more information. I didn't do it as it seems like such a small piece of information from so long ago.
Anyway, I just thought I'd add that information here. I'm not sure exactly what the purpose of this website is, but people here at least seem interested. I felt so upset that I had apparently been sitting right near Eugene and then found his note and that there was no happy ending.
End of post.
How strange--could there have really been 2 dollars bills found? I'm not questioning the authenticity of the above post because I have no reason to, BUT if it's true, it really lends credence to the fact that Johnny Gosch and Eugene Martin were together and that they each tried to get these messages out. I realize it could've been a hoax, also.....but on the flip side of the coin....it may not have been.
The poster "greenray" who wrote the above post regarding the dollar bill only posted 2 times--both on this subject, and never posted again.
Here is his other post, written on the same day.
#49
12-01-2004, 09:10 PM
greenray
vbmenu_register("postmenu_457603", true);
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2
Eugene Martin
Hi Richard,
At the time, I had the distinct impression that Eugene Martin had actually been in the restaurant because the dollar bill was crumpled up in such a strange way. It was in a very compact ball shape and, after I read what was written on it, I thought that must be why it was crumpled up like that. The person wanted it to be noticed and not just put back into circulation. I certainly noticed it and I've never given any thought to tips left on restaurant tables before or since.
I was much younger then and when I was told that he was 17 I thought well couldn't he get away? Now I realize that an abductor can have enormous power over a victim of any age.
I don't have the actual dollar bill any more. A friend at the time took it to a psychic and then threw it out. I may still have a photocopy of it. I don't know who I'd even give it to.
End of post.
Thoughts??
Here is his other post, written on the same day.
#49
greenray
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2
Eugene Martin
Hi Richard,
At the time, I had the distinct impression that Eugene Martin had actually been in the restaurant because the dollar bill was crumpled up in such a strange way. It was in a very compact ball shape and, after I read what was written on it, I thought that must be why it was crumpled up like that. The person wanted it to be noticed and not just put back into circulation. I certainly noticed it and I've never given any thought to tips left on restaurant tables before or since.
I was much younger then and when I was told that he was 17 I thought well couldn't he get away? Now I realize that an abductor can have enormous power over a victim of any age.
I don't have the actual dollar bill any more. A friend at the time took it to a psychic and then threw it out. I may still have a photocopy of it. I don't know who I'd even give it to.
End of post.
Thoughts??
missacorah
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Instinct is telling me to be a little suspicious of this story!
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