Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #38

[tigertales]

I think many people are over-thinking this. Step away from the fact that it was Mollie's abduction, which garnered national attention and struck everyone as something of a mystery. CR confessed because he was caught. He has a 7th grade level education and works as a farm hand. He was interrogated by intelligent, accomplished, experienced LE and FBI agents. Why does everyone think this person who couldn't manage a job better than milking cows is somehow outsmarting the FBI and prosecutors? He was confronted with evidence and tried to make up a lie to explain what happened.

I am sure LE said, "We know you did this, we need to end this. Let's bring Mollie home. This will go much better for you if you just show us where the body is. We'll note your cooperation. Maybe we can even work out a deal. We will work with ICE so you won't be deported. But we can only help you if you tell us what happened and bring us to the body." And he gave his story and brought them to the body.

The best defense would be to not say anything. Let the prosecution bring their case and challenge each piece of evidence trying to institute some doubt. You don't need to make up some grand competing theory - you have to show that the prosecutor did not meet the standard of proof. The science isn't reliable. The expert witness has testified contrary to this before. You're not winning a media case and getting your client named GQ's Man of the Year - you're convincing 2 jurors that there's reasonable doubt that your client met each condition in the jury instructions to vote for conviction.

Well stated.

 

[Jaclin]

Rahn used abduction twice (or more). And abduction is defined by "persuasion."

I don't think Mollie was persuaded at all. The definition also states "or (not and)by open force or violence" clearly there was a lot of violence with multiple sharp force trauma.

 

[Warwick7]

With regards to the multiple sharp force injuries, I was wondering if this is considered "overkill" which has it's own meaning as to motive. Anyone here good at crime scene analysis? I did find this which seems close.

• "Disorganized offenders: These criminals usually live alone or with a relative, possess lower-than-average intelligence, are unemployed or work at menial jobs, and often have mental illnesses. They act impulsively, or as if they have little control over their fantasy-driven needs. They rarely use ruses to gain the victim’s confidence, but rather attack with sudden violence, overwhelming the victim. The crime scene often is messy and chaotic. This type of offender doesn’t plan ahead or bring tools along, but rather uses whatever is handy. As killers, they typically leave the body at the scene and exert little effort to avoid leaving behind evidence. Some have sexual contact with the victim after killing him or her."

"Overkill usually is personal, with anger as the common underlying drive."

Forensics: Profiling the Perpetrator - dummies

I don't know about overkill. However under "sharp force wound" it says there are 3 different kinds:
Forensic Autopsy of Sharp Force Injuries: Overview, Definitions, Scene Findings

 

[Charliegizmo49]

JnRyan said:
I didn't understand how he got caught. He was an illegal alien, so I assume he still retained his Mexican citzenship. For less than $200 he could have been on a Greyhound bus out of Des Moines to El Paso. He could have left on a Sunday morning and by the time anyone knew he was missing he would have been almost to El Paso. By Monday afternoon he would be in Mexico. So I looked up extradition treaties and it appears every country south of us has an extradition treaty with the US. I didn't find a single Spanish speaking country that did not have an extradition treaty with the US.

Theres the thing. He did not even need to get out of the US, he could have just traveled to another migrant community within the same state. The police would have been looking for a different person. The Farm had him employeed under a false name. They would not be looking for anyone named CR rather his fraudulent name. Doubt his coworkers would have volunteered anything different. I'm not even convinced his real name is CR. I think this is a safety measure some illegals use to remain under the radar.

I could imagine him believing he was going to get away with it.

What’s more I think it’s a very simple continuum of his success in possible past crimes. The reference to del NARCO alarms me.

And most importantly without the video he may not have been found.

 

[Inthedetails]

Earlier I used the word blueprints. This article doesn't say blueprints but uses the words property records. (As to the basement).

Iowa student Mollie Tibbetts died of 'multiple sharp force injuries' | Daily Mail Online

Thanks for the link. It doesn't say LE was waiting outside the house, as was stated upthread without a link, but rather:

"The agents, from the FBI's Omaha, Nebraska, Evidence Response Team, arrived just after [the autopsy] was released by Iowa law enforcement...Two unmarked cars arrived on the property shortly afterward to assist with the search."

 

[Alethea]

Interesting post. With this in mind I decided to see what the difference is between abduction and kidnapping:

Kidnapping is the taking away of a person by force, threat, or deceit, with intent to cause him or her to be detained against his or her will. Kidnapping may be done for ransom or for political or other purposes.

Abduction is the criminal taking away a person by persuasion, by fraud, or by open force or violence.

Quote from an upthread: "I can’t speak about the motive. I can just tell you that it seemed that he followed her, seemed to be drawn to her on that particular day, for whatever reason he chose to abduct her,” DCI Special Agent Rick Rahn told reporters at a news conference on Tuesday. "He told us he had seen Mollie in the past and on that particular day, July 18, 2018, he happened to see her, he was drawn to her, and as a result, kind of followed her around a little bit and ultimately confronted her," Rahn said. "And ended up tackling her and ultimately abducting her."

Abduction is a broader term that covers more scenarios than kidnapping. I think kidnapping is a type of abduction where the person kidnapped is held against their will. Abduction also includes parental abductions, where the child might not be held against their will but they were taken by fraud or against a court order. A parental abduction is not always considered a kidnapping.

 

[Cococat]

I could imagine him believing he was going to get away with it.

What’s more I think it’s a very simple continuum of his success in possible past crimes. The reference to del NARCO alarms me.

And most importantly without the video he may not have been found.

That's the biggest issue for me - LE really didn't have much at all previous to viewing the video. They did a great job once they had the footage, but without it I'm not sure the case would have progressed very quickly.

 

[RavenCC2020]

I just thought it was going to be someone close to Mollie (I didn't think she was the type to hang out with illegals), and it seems this guy was an acquaintance at best.

This is something I was going to make a post about but this is a good place to mention it. What I found disturbing about this guy that for me really draws a clear picture of who he is and what he cares about is the fact that his FB is mostly young girls. I have no idea of he actually knows them or just makes friends with random girls but when you consider he has a habit of approaching school age girls long after his gf has graduated from school, it does make me ask myself why. He is 24. This may be a cultural thing I don't know, but from where I come from I don't know any 24 year olds that are hanging around meeting highschool aged girls.

Again why? It may be because he is uneducated having only an 7th or 8th grade education, he feels these girls are his peer group for lack of a better word. He relates better with them. Women his own age he may find intimidating and either won't approach or has aleady been rejected by women of that age which brings him back to the school girls. This is evidenced by statements the girls themselves have made of recent encounters with him. It can also be as simple as younger girls lacking experience are easier to manipulate and he is grooming them for encounters.

Mollie is friends with his gf and we already know he was aware of her having seen her before. She was obviously a very pretty girl and he was interested. For someone in his position she is a total catch, pretty, smart, in college and going somewhere. I will assume he probably does not wish to live the rest of his life on that farm or in a similar environment. Her postive cheerful self and can do spirit would also be appealing to someone in that situation. He probably was very interested in her and perhaps more then just a sexual encounter.

Why I feel this could be a possible scenario is I really don't believe this guy has killed before. I think he has already and if not caught, would continue to try his luck with other young girls in the hopes of a sexual encounter. He may have been lucky at times because some girls are just naive. I doubt if they are underage they were going to stand up and admit they willingly had an encounter with him, even today.

Molly on the other hand was not your average girl and we all know that. If he REALLY liked her and she rejected him out of hand that may have been what triggered his anger enough to actually kill her. Her threatening to call the police is indicative of her perceiving him to be a threat/ predator to her and NOT a possible peer/boyfriend material for her. You know, basically in his mind telling him she is out of his league. It is as simple as what her dad said, someone mistook her intentions with him. She is friendly and smiles that gorgeous smile and he thinks he has a chance not understanding that is just who she was as a person, friendly and sunshiney personality. Just a thought to consider especially for me who believes he has not killed anyone before. Something would have to trigger him and certainly it was not just her rejection as he had been rejected before and those girls are still alive.

 

[MyBelle]

it seems like the farmers papers indicate that he did run the tests and that the ID and Social information matched. So, the next question is whether the company they used to investigate his documentation was inept or fraudulent themselves; which really has nothing to do with CR being a killer and we're not really talking about illegal immigration on this forum. but it does seem like, at least in the case of CR, that the farm did what they were supposed to do. I didn't expect it to be anyone illegal either. I didn't really think about the farms. I just thought it was going to be someone close to Mollie (I didn't think she was the type to hang out with illegals), and it seems this guy was an acquaintance at best.

I think it very possible Mollie knew CR or was acquainted with him. I doubt she ever considered his "legal" status. It sure wouldn't have crossed my mind at her age.

 

[Cortne]

That's the biggest issue for me - LE really didn't have much at all previous to viewing the video. They did a great job once they had the footage, but without it I'm not sure the case would have progressed very quickly.

That 7th grader would have just vanished into thin air quite possibly. Dunno why he didn’t!! Too dumb I guess grrrrrrr I’ll say no more lol

 

[jca1388]

It's unbelievable that I keep seeing articles now where the perp is being talked about as a good normal person.... That's all out the door ...I'm sorry it is unacceptable this is happening...All I see is that he stole her life.... he needed to hear her screaming death agonies...I am horrified to think of what was going through her head if she was conscious at any point.. He is a murderer and nothing will ever change that fact..

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Thanks for the link. It doesn't say LE was waiting outside the house, as was stated upthread without a link, but rather:

"The agents, from the FBI's Omaha, Nebraska, Evidence Response Team, arrived just after [the autopsy] was released by Iowa law enforcement...Two unmarked cars arrived on the property shortly afterward to assist with the search."

It makes sense. The medical examiner would have been able to determine the measurements if the weapon used to kill her. Otherwise LE PROBABLY KNEW FROM OBSERVATION WHEN viewing the remains she had been stabbed. The ME takes exact measurements. And sometimes impressions.

 

[CheetosDust]

This is something I was going to make a post about but this is a good place to mention it. What I found disturbing about this guy that for me really draws a clear picture of who he is and what he cares about is the fact that his FB is mostly young girls. I have no idea of he actually knows them or just makes friends with random girls but when you consider he has a habit of approaching school age girls long after his gf has graduated from school, it does make me ask myself why. He is 24. This may be a cultural thing I don't know, but from where I come from I don't know any 24 year olds that are hanging around meeting highschool aged girls.

Again why? It may be because he is uneducated having only an 7th or 8th grade education, he feels these girls are his peer group for lack of a better word. He relates better with them. Women his own age he may find intimidating and either won't approach or has aleady been rejected by women of that age which brings him back to the school girls. This is evidenced by statements the girls themselves have made of recent encounters with him. It can also be as simple as younger girls lacking experience are easier to manipulate and he is grooming them for encounters.

Mollie is friends with his gf and we already know he was aware of her having seen her before. She was obviously a very pretty girl and he was interested. For someone in his position she is a total catch, pretty, smart, in college and going somewhere. I will assume he probably does not wish to live the rest of his life on that farm or in a similar environment. Her postive cheerful self and can do spirit would also be appealing to someone in that situation. He probably was very interested in her and perhaps more then just a sexual encounter.

Why I feel this could be a possible scenario is I really don't believe this guy has killed before. I think he has already and if not caught, would continue to try his luck with other young girls in the hopes of a sexual encounter. He may have been lucky at times because some girls are just naive. I doubt if they are underage they were going to stand up and admit they willingly had an encounter with him, even today.

Molly on the other hand was not your average girl and we all know that. If he REALLY liked her and she rejected him out of hand that may have been what triggered his anger enough to actually kill her. Her threatening to call the police is indicative of her perceiving him to be a threat/ predator to her and NOT a possible peer/boyfriend material for her. You know, basically in his mind telling him she is out of his league. It is as simple as what her dad said, someone mistook her intentions with him. She is friendly and smiles that gorgeous smile and he thinks he has a chance not understanding that is just who she was as a person, friendly and sunshiney personality. Just a thought to consider especially for me who believes he has not killed anyone before. Something would have to trigger him and certainly it was not just her rejection as he had been rejected before and those girls are still alive.

I tend to agree with you. I don’t think he has killed before either. Domestic violence, probably.

 

[TL4S]

I don't think Mollie was persuaded at all. The definition also states "or (not and)by open force or violence" clearly there was a lot of violence with multiple sharp force trauma.

Although a knife at your throat could be rather persuasive.

 

[Veracity]

I couldn't disagree more -- the xGF and child are also victims. Her body language told us she's in total shock.

She went to school with Mollie. Up until two days ago she was a graduate of that HS who had been a football cheerleader and who was raising a daughter. Now she will forever be known in that community as the GF of Mollie Tibbetts killer and her daughter looks like her dad. I can fully appreciate why she looked so stricken in the court gallery.

What I can't understand is why be there? She had broken up with him. Their daughter is so very young. WHY put yourself there? She could use an absence from the court to further distance herself from CR. And she has very right to do just that for herself and even more importantly for that daughter!!

 

[Veracity]

I highly doubt the farm will be charged with anything related to this case. By all accounts, they followed protocols, and were thwarted by this guy using a false identity.

If they were to be charged with anything, it wouldn’t have anything to do with the crime this guy committed, and would have to do with the hiring of illegal immigrants. Penalties for this include fines, and in extreme cases, jail time.

I have a strong suspicion the owner is going to be dragged into the case by the defense. Time will tell.

 

[MsBetsy]

With regards to the multiple sharp force injuries, I was wondering if this is considered "overkill" which has it's own meaning as to motive. Anyone here good at crime scene analysis? I did find this which seems close.

• "Disorganized offenders: These criminals usually live alone or with a relative, possess lower-than-average intelligence, are unemployed or work at menial jobs, and often have mental illnesses. They act impulsively, or as if they have little control over their fantasy-driven needs. They rarely use ruses to gain the victim’s confidence, but rather attack with sudden violence, overwhelming the victim. The crime scene often is messy and chaotic. This type of offender doesn’t plan ahead or bring tools along, but rather uses whatever is handy. As killers, they typically leave the body at the scene and exert little effort to avoid leaving behind evidence. Some have sexual contact with the victim after killing him or her."

"Overkill usually is personal, with anger as the common underlying drive."

Forensics: Profiling the Perpetrator - dummies

Thank you for sharing that! Sounds like the perfect description of what LE is dealing with. I think this is exactly what type of killer he is, right down to the last gory detail.

 

[Warwick7]

Thanks for the link. It doesn't say LE was waiting outside the house, as was stated upthread without a link, but rather:

"The agents, from the FBI's Omaha, Nebraska, Evidence Response Team, arrived just after [the autopsy] was released by Iowa law enforcement...Two unmarked cars arrived on the property shortly afterward to assist with the search."

It says they swooped in minutes of the report.
---------------------------------------------------------------
This states FBI were waiting outside the driveway. (The house is a few yards from the driveway). [At 3:40pm]

Mollie Tibbetts Murder — FBI Raids Suspect Cristhian Bahena Rivera’s House – Thefeedcorner

 

[The Farm]

She went to school with Mollie. Up until two days ago she was a graduate of that HS who had been a football cheerleader and who was raising a daughter. Now she will forever be known in that community as the GF of Mollie Tibbetts killer and her daughter looks like her dad. I can fully appreciate why she looked so stricken in the court gallery.

What I can't understand is why be there? She had broken up with him. Their daughter is so very young. WHY put yourself there? She could use an absence from the court to further distance herself from CR. And she has very right to do just that for herself and even more importantly for that daughter!!

Well I am sure they are going to use her now for the investigation but after all is said and done if she is an illegal she will have to
go back to her hometown in Mexico. Is she illegal too? So maybe that is why she looks so stricken.

The reason she was there with the kid is because it garners sympathy.....ohhhh he is a loving father blah blah.
I said in an earlier post many pages ago that Aaron Hernandez baby mama did the same thing and everyone was in an uproar about it. And now she either just had another baby or due any day so she did not waste any time and loving Aaron has been dead how long? Yes, she brought the little daughter into the court but it did not work. If anything it made her look like an idiot for doing it.

 

[Deleted member 227458]

Would Mexican authorities cooperate if the FBI requested info re: any arrest records CR might have in Mexico?

If CR does have a record of crimes against females in Mexico, could that come in at trial, do you think, or would any evidence of prior bad acts be ruled prejudicial?