IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #39

[MsBetsy]

If that were the case, it would have likely lead police to his house early on in the investigation. I think he got rid of it around the time he dumped Mollie.

Oh, yeah. True

 

[skyedaze]

Statistically, hence, “on the whole” the number of women murdered while jogging is low in terms of the number of women who jog. The point is that if you are running, you are far more likely to not be murdered (huge understatement), than be murdered.

It doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t take precautions, or that this should ever happen (obviously).

Well if you are one of the murdered, statistically speaking, you are 100% dead.

 

[feralwriter]

Ding, ding, ding! As one with experience teaching ESL to non-native speakers of English, I totally concur, MsBetsy!

Also, Al Hoffman's earlier comments re: CR's "cultural milieu" were insightful; thanks to both Al & MsBetsy for sharing from their own experiences and knowledge. Yet another thing I love about WS and its members!
==
IIRC someone mentioned earlier about the tendency of some non-native speakers of English to "pretend" that they don't truly understand native English speakers' conversations. Totally agree! Have often observed/experienced this in my own experiences both here and overseas while teaching ESL. Additionally, such a ploy can be used by those wishing to skip over having to take responsibility for their actions -- and the expected outcome of those actions.

NB: I do *not* hereby refer to those non-native speakers of English who find themselves in life-or-death settings, i. e., medical settings, such as hospital ERs -- where the non-fluent individuals urgently need to know English vocabulary that far surpasses that of "everyday" conversational English. Thus the need of a professional interpreter. This also applies in legal settings -- and with good reason (i. e., life-or-death decisions). Nevertheless, at least one of us on the WS site still finds troubling CR's near-silence in the courtroom, even to reply with an affirmative or a negative to the presiding judge. Perhaps he was waiting to hear through his headphones the *exact* meaning of what the judge was saying. Yet...none of those in Brooklyn who spoke w/CR mentioned having spoken in Spanish with him. And Mollie's family members (sorry, can't recall exact on-line article I read) have stated that for her "foreign language", she chose sign language (which is very cool). She very well *may* have known some words in Spanish, but...I have a strong sense that, when she asked him to stop pestering her (or whatever she said to him on her run on July 18th), she said it *in English*. All JMOO. (Still thinking about "intent to harm", and CR's ability to comprehend "everyday" English.)

Well, just my opinion, but "No" is "No" in both Espanol y Ingles, no? And her hands out in the stop position? At least that's how I envision it. And backing away, screaming no, running, that is, if she even got that far. Then as he lifted her up to carry her, kicking her legs? English or Spanish, Arabic or Swahili, wouldn't a get the hell away from me translate nonverbally.

 

[gliving]

Is it possible CR took Mollie’s phone home, turned it on quickly for whatever reason and that’s where a 9:30pm ping came from?

It depends if he ever turned it off. Maybe he grabbed it and fled.
We need this trial to get started so we can find out all this stuff.

 

[feralwriter]

YESSSS! And for men too. I can think of several college age young men taken too soon from foul play. Safety is gender blind.

Oh I'm sorry to hear that. Ugh. Did women kill them? Women can be deadly, no doubt.....

 

[MassGuy]

Apologies if this has been asked before but what is the normal time scale we could expect the case to go to trial in Iowa? I just wondered if anyone had a rough idea but I know every case is different. I hope the ordeal of a trial is over ASAP for Mollie’s loved ones.

I just looked up some recent murder cases in Iowa, and they were between a year, and a year and a half, from the date of initial charge to the subsequent trial. This one has a lot of elements, including a great deal of publicity and a degree of complexity, so I’d tend to lean towards the trial occurring on the higher end.

 

[MsBetsy]

While it hasn't been proven that he didn't SA mollie, it hasn't been proven that he did either yet there are so many posts that just add it in like its a known fact that he did. We have no evidence showing that at this point.

As far as we know anything from the "chasing Mollie" to "finding her in the trunk with a bloody side of the head" is in the black/blockout period.

I am sure we will find out a lot more eventually, but I just wouldn't make any assumptions at this point.

It's true, we are assuming. No One knows for sure, all we can do is speculate, according to what we know. But I'm sure some people can give you some pretty compelling reasons for why it is thought to be the case. Anyone?

 

[Jaclin]

When are more people going to be outraged about this? When are more men going to stand up against this behavior?

I bought new running shoes today ( I walk in my neighborhood with my dog)...and next to the female section of shoes there was a pepper spray display. Well I bought some. I was glad it was there...and sad that it was there. At least someone thought of it...and they sure knew where to put it in the store.

When I was 21 I used to ride my bike 11 miles...5.5 out on a bike path and 5.5 back. I could move at a pretty fast pace. Then one day some weirdo dude followed me and would not go away...so i rode as fast as I could to the police station. He followed me the whole way til he realized it was a police station.

A police officer put my bike in a police car and drove me home. He said I probably should not ride by myself even though it was broad daylight in a busy area. I told him that was so wrong and such BS..he agreed. I never rode my bike again on that bike path...or anywhere.

definitely did the right thing by riding to the police office. people being followed in a car should do the same thing. he probably wouldn't have bothered you in broad daylight in a busy area, but he may have followed you to your home or secluded area such as with MT and attacked later. I think a lot of men will stand up to a guy they see creeping after a woman if they notice it.

 

[MassGuy]

Well if you are one of the murdered, statistically speaking, you are 100% dead.

Yes. But that’s not the point I was making.

 

[Cardinal47]

Apologies if this has been asked before but what is the normal time scale we could expect the case to go to trial in Iowa? I just wondered if anyone had a rough idea but I know every case is different. I hope the ordeal of a trial is over ASAP for Mollie’s loved ones.

My guess would be two years!

 

[gliving]

If that were the case, it would have likely lead police to his house early on in the investigation. I think he got rid of it around the time he dumped Mollie.

It led them to TLC's farm.

 

[jillycat]

I believe that what he said was this " I blacked out." When LE made the statement " He blocked it out," that is just the way he pronounced it. As someone said the short a in Spanish is pronounced " ah" like el gato. Or block. Many times, especially with the younger generation, they add an extra ed to a word ending in ed. For example, the word asked is pronounced, " ask ded " so blacked would be pronounce "blackded " I have heard this over and over. It sounds weird to us ( that's why I always notice it.) So " He blocked it out", is Rivera saying, " I blahck ted out. In other words , " I blacked out". It would be so much easier to say than write, but that's the best I can do. I hear it ALL the time. It may not be the case, but it sure would help clear things up if it is.

There was a translator, so I would think if it wasn't clear, there may have been an exchange in Spanish to clarify the word he intended. If he said it in Spanish it would have been translated.

 

[MsBetsy]

Well if you are one of the murdered, statistically speaking, you are 100% dead.

Well, true, but I think the point is you are much more likely NOT to be murdered than to become a statistic.

 

[whiskers]

LE said "He blocked it out" , at least that is what I remember. So if they are repeating what Rivera said to them, it would sound like " blackted out", with the " ah" sound if they were quoting what Rivera said. However, if they are quoting exactly what the interpretator said to them, then my whole interpretation goes out the window, and we will go back to speculating the difference between the two phrases. But, I also think that the meanings for the two are so similar that they would have interpreted it the same way. At least for the trial there is an interpreter, so we dont have to worry about it.

Exactly. I'm glad for interpreter with the trial. I want this to be a slam dunk more than anything. We all do.

 

[MassGuy]

Well, true, but I think the point is you are much more likely NOT to be murdered than to become a statistic.

Exactly. Thanks.

 

[Followfacts]

As sick as it sounds (and is), there is an urge in some people to commit acts of violence for sexual satisfaction. The act of killing is pleasurable, and serves as a release.

None of us will ever fully understand it, because we can't relate to the idea that hurting someone, can bring fulfillment. It takes a person devoid of empathy, and human connection, to commit a crime like this, and commit it without remorse.

These monsters have existed since the beginning of humanity, and they will continue to exist, and walk amongst us. Its a sad reality, and one that we can only hope to contain.

Thank you I really appreciate your response!! I am struggling with this morally, and philosophically. It is helpful to hear from someone who understands the depth of my questions. I was reflecting on your answer and there are many perspectives, lenses to view abhorrent acts as you described. Contemplating on the “Why” is humane. I seek answers. We are now all witnesses to these events, not bystanders.

 

[MsBetsy]

There was a translator, so I would think if it wasn't clear, there may have been an exchange in Spanish to clarify the word he intended. If he said it in Spanish it would have been translated.

True, but it is the only reasonable explanation and it makes sense . I'm sure they were quoting what they heard HIM say. After 8 years in the country he certainly knows enough English to carry a conversation. We don't know if the interpretator was present the whole time and I'm sure he was communicating in both English and Spanish.... another point, there may not be an exact translation of the term used in Spanish for this type of episode, so " block" may be s direct translation as to what Rivera said. A direct translation of the word" black" is "negra" ( mexican may be a little different) so they may not use that word in describing what we call a " blackout". Anyway, the main point that is important is that it means the same thing.

 

[JudgeJoe]

I don't remember an extra stop being mentioned in-between the abduction and removing her from the trunk.

That’s my belief too, but there was debate/speculation late last week about an intermediate stop closer to abduction site, somewhere along 385 where a potential SA may have occurred before the final hide at cornfield.[/QUOTE]
I think some speculation also came from the understanding of abduction on Boundary & Waters(?) with the 1900 block of 385th identified on affadavit, then corn field. So... 3 potential stops. There is also a small lake off road near the 1900 block site. Caught my attention.

 

[Followfacts]

In that Rivera put Mollie in the trunk regardless, he’d surely have taken her if she’d willing agreed to go with him as opposed to threatening to call the police?

This article more or less describes it... fight, avoid being taken....well known prudent advice that sadly wasn’t successful, if this was the circumstance in this case.

“....Most criminologists warn of the poor survival odds (possibly death by torture) if you are kidnapped to a secluded area. Why does he want to isolate you? Are you wealthy thus worth a ransom? Are you a hostage in a botched retail store robbery? If not, then you’ll be fully at the mercy of a violent criminal, possibly silenced forever afterward.

The above survival options rationale is based on the kidnapper using a (loud) gun to threaten you. But what if he instead uses a (silent) knife? There’s no noise factor to deter him. Yet the same survival rationale remains: if he’s willing to stab you there, he’s willing to do even worse harm elsewhere.....”
Survival Options - Kidnapping Prevention

Thank you for this article!!!

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't think jogging is as risky as hitchhiking, but of course there are ways to be safer when you jog. It can be safer to jog with someone else, but some of us have lazy friends. I jog in public areas so that there are always people around. Having witnesses can make all the difference. Then, of course, there are really crazy people that don't care about witnesses. In that case, it doesn't matter if someone else is with you or what you are doing.

At one time, hitchhiking wasn’t considered risky whatsoever. It was considered a practical and cheap means of travel. It was only later as time went by, after media reports of murdered and missing people began to surface that it became increasingly perceived to be a high risk activity. Was it really, I’m not sure but perception is everything.

As for Mollie, she also saw no risk to jogging alone in her quiet home town.