IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #40

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Yes, I've wondered that, too. Why THAT spot? Was it just convenient, or was he familiar?
I think he had considered it an option when he was driving around, maybe psyching himself up, or even in the days prior to carrying out the crime. It's too perfect a location the way it's so secluded, and there is a dirt road leading to the cornfield , as well as an easy place to turn around and head back out away from the area. Jmo
 
Honestly I doubt he was “drawn to her” in the past, nor do I think he was out stalking her but rather just out cruising around town and tried to pick up on her. I wish I knew how he first met his ex... she was a high schooler at Brooklyn, it wouldn’t be unusual that he first met her while out driving around town too.

Mexican (American) Graffiti? Cruising the strip...
 
Haaaaa, yes, but wouldn't Rivera know that too? This is something I can't get my head around. Why would he even have his phone at all during the crime,and why would he allow the victims to be left on ?


Most of what we’re posting and saying isvpure guesswork. When we have more info from future filings or when autopsy reports are released this forum will light up. I can honestly say I enjoy every post and the ideas that So many diverse people’s backgrounds wrap up into theories.

WHAT EVER WOULD WE DO IF NOT FOR WEBSLEUTHS???
 
See my sig for why I think this but the final explanation of why this happened will be very simple:

Killer's version at trial/plea agreement talks
<respectful snip>

I realize most of that story is bull so here is the likely true version:

Actual events
- Killer knew Mollie around town and was attracted to her sexually
- He meticulously stalked her in his vehicle until she was in an area he knew was desolate and likely to be all alone
- He approached her with sexually charged intentions on his mind
- She was creeped out and said no way, felt threatened so she said she was going to call the police
- He knew that meant bad things for him as an illegal alien, and one who was trying to stalk the pretty popular all-American local white girl
- The combination of deportation if he's found out and being rejected by the girl he wants sends him into a rage and he attacks her because she wasn't going to report this to anyone and he had to have her
- Knocked her out and put her in his trunk - at this point she may still be alive but barely
- Drove her to the cornfield where he sexually assaulted her and finished her off then dumped her body
- He's felt nothing since that point because he's a psychopath who would do this again if not locked up

I agree with most of it, but I really doubt that violent predators give victims an opportunity to say "hey, if you don't stop that, I'm going to phone the police." That's not something I've ever heard before.
 
That's what I was wondering about the nails. Even though they fall off after a couple of weeks, couldn't they still be found intact? It doesn't seem likely they would break down like the skin, tissues, muscles and organs. I would think they would be in the same condition or similar, as they were when they fell off? I've heard people say that fingernails are " dead" whatever that means. Does anyone know what they are made of and what happens after they fall off the body?

So this is what I found regarding fingernails and DNA regarding what you were asking. There is a good chance her fingernails didn’t fall off.

A nail is a horn-like envelope covering the tips of the fingers and toes in most primates and a few other mammals. Nails are similar to claws in other animals. Fingernails and toenails are made of a tough protective protein called alpha-keratin.

A month after death, the hair, nails and teeth will fall out.”

How Dying Worksl

YORK – Ten years after her murder, the DNA beneath a teenager’s fingernails has finally resulted in an indictment, reportsCBS New York.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...om-teen-victims-fingernails-leads-to-suspect/
 
The fbi is available to any law enforcement entity in the country. If a sizable incident occurs in a small department/community it takes one phone call to enhance investigation staff. In addition to the sheer numbers, feds also bring in the best expertise in the world. Fortunately the Sheriff of Poweshiek county public realized the zr is weé


Fingernails and toenails are made of a tough protective protein called alpha-keratin.

A nail is a horn-like envelope covering the tips of the fingers and toes in most primates and a few other mammals. Nails are similar to claws in other animals. Fingernails and toenails are made of a tough protective protein called alpha-keratin. This protein is also found in the hooves and horns of different animals.
Thanks! Not sure what you are referring to in the first part of your post, I had asked how they could possibly know that the suspect was illegal in the beginning stages of the investigation, as they had no idea who he was. Maybe you where responding to the person who thought that might be the reason the FBI were brought into the case. So that makes sense... But yes, as for the nails my question was would they still be in good condition after being separated from the body,for 33 days and it sounds like you are saying they probably would. The reason I asked is I was wondering if it was still possible to find DNA within any cells attached to the nails. Or would there likely be no skin cells by that time... Mr Hoffman?
 
Most of what we’re posting and saying isvpure guesswork. When we have more info from future filings or when autopsy reports are released this forum will light up. I can honestly say I enjoy every post and the ideas that So many diverse people’s backgrounds wrap up into theories.

WHAT EVER WOULD WE DO IF NOT FOR WEBSLEUTHS???
I agree. But I just can't imagine that this guy would be so dumb. As I mentioned, I had students who were 15, 16 years old who are from the same culture, ( most who have not even been here as long as Rivera, and they know NOT to use a phone if they are engaging in various criminal activities. I guess that's why I can't understand that he woulnt know That! It's just not believable to me. Of course, this would also point to him NOT planning the crime, and that it was spur of the moment. I have said previously that I think he was planning an assault, or at least thinking about doing it. Since investigators asked him if he had ever seen her jogging there before, it makes me think that may be what they are thinking. So who knows? It doesn't make sense. I guess it could be that although he may have been planning it, it all happened so fast and in the heat of the moment did not think of the phone until after he had done the deed. I think I'll go with that.
 
Chevy Malibu's have the OnStar navigation system. It records gps locations of everywhere the car goes. Even if you don't subscribe to the OnStar program, the car still records it all. Once LE found the right Malibu, they could supoena GMC for past gps locations. Similar to a plane's black box. CR's goose was cooked even without cell phone geolocation info.

OnStar Tracks Your Car Even When You Cancel Service

"Navigation-and-emergency-services company OnStar is notifying its six million account holders that it will keep a complete accounting of the speed and location of OnStar-equipped vehicles, even for drivers who discontinue monthly service."

"Collecting location and speed data via GPS might also create a treasure trove of data that could be used in criminal and civil cases."

Yikes, I would never ever buy a GM car anyway, but that just reconfirms my decision.
 
Thank you. Yesterday I thought I saw (heard) you say your
Quote button was not working.
I have trouble with the quote button. Sometimes when I hit quote it starts my comments above the quote and then it breaks and finishes it below the quote. It's been doing that for the past few days. So I have to check my posts and sometimes re-write the beginning.
 
Honestly I doubt he was “drawn to her” in the past, nor do I think he was out stalking her but rather just out cruising around town and tried to pick up on her. I wish I knew how he first met his ex... she was a high schooler at Brooklyn, it wouldn’t be unusual that he first met her while out driving around town too.
However didn't Rahn himself state:
"I can't really speak about the motive," Rahn said. "I can just tell you that he followed her and seemed to be drawn to her on that particular day. For whatever reason he chose to abduct her."
 
I agree with most of it, but I really doubt that violent predators give victims an opportunity to say "hey, if you don't stop that, I'm going to phone the police." That's not something I've ever heard before.

Odd that you should say that because for some reason I have always felt that she never even got to say any such thing.
 
So this is what I found regarding fingernails and DNA regarding what you were asking. There is a good chance her fingernails didn’t fall off.

A nail is a horn-like envelope covering the tips of the fingers and toes in most primates and a few other mammals. Nails are similar to claws in other animals. Fingernails and toenails are made of a tough protective protein called alpha-keratin.

A month after death, the hair, nails and teeth will fall out.”

How Dying Worksl

YORK – Ten years after her murder, the DNA beneath a teenager’s fingernails has finally resulted in an indictment, reportsCBS New York.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...om-teen-victims-fingernails-leads-to-suspect/
Thanks, I just saw this. Ten years! Wow. Oops sorry I am editing because I had not read the whole article . I thought the remains had been found ten years later. Now I see it was from the nail clippings from the autopsy ten years ago. I guess my original question is regarding how long the cells can stay attached to the nails, and especially if they ever have been able to find DNA in them this long after death, in a similar climate the body was in in this particular case. In other words, how likely? 50% chance? MOM24?
 
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I agree with most of it, but I really doubt that violent predators give victims an opportunity to say "hey, if you don't stop that, I'm going to phone the police." That's not something I've ever heard before.
I agree. That would be going zero to sixty apropos of nothing. Do people in general really act like that? Much less killers? Like, "Hey baby. Wanna go out sometime?" "No?" Then onto to the stabbing motions.
 
I read the abstracts you cited (would love to be able to read the original articles). Not one cited frequency.

Sure, you may be able to find perp DNA in an individual case after a month of decomp, but not every time, and that is my point, that it is a crap shoot as to whether or not usable perp DNA will be found on or in MT, especially male gametocyte DNA! One black swan does not mean that I will see one every time I go fishing!

I totally agree with the final line of the later article that encourages looking for spermatazoa even at 1.5 to 5 months post-mortem, because they MAY be found if you look for them. Never give up, never surrender. Leave no tern unstoned. No argument on that point at all. The point of the article is that you should look, because while it's unlikely YOU might just luck out and find something. "...there's gotta be a pony in here somewhere"

Also, the 34 day single case outlier you cite was found in Maine. In a Maine winter, I completely agree that DNA, and the rest of the body, may keep for months, it's a deep freeze! What were the environmental conditions associated with that corpse's decomp? I think you might be able to even keep frozen embryos in a river in Main in January. Maybe that's Pluto, I get confused when I drink.

With MT we are talking about an Iowa Summer. I've been there, sweated that, and embarrised the school administration into buying additional window AC units for the main lecture hall. Iowa (eventually) gets hot in the summer. In July of '83 It was 102 in the afternoon- destroyed the corn crop.

You have said in several posts that DNA is somehow more resistant from degradation, by the 1000's of bacterial species associated with decomp, than other bio-molecules. Again, I ask you to please document this. DNA is made up of the same building blocks as the rest of the body, ALL of which bacteria were made to breakdown and metabolize. It's a great circle of life thing.

In your final paragraph, you conflate perp and victim DNA. I TOTALLY agree that viable VICTIM DNA can be obtained from the interior of molars or the inner ear bones of a skull found on a dog walk, perhaps years later (Like the 500+ year DNA Half-Life you have previously mentioned)
But I defy you, or anyone else, to find perp DNA in either location unless there was an icepick and some really kinky sex involved!

I do grasp your point that there are pockets that may be formed that could hold male gametocyte DNA (like the cul-de-sac/pouch of Douglas). But the problem is that with an advanced enough state of decomp, you can't swab a vagina if there isn't one left to swab. And as far as touch DNA is concerned, that would likely be the first to go, with the effect of rain and decomp.

There is a much better chance that CR's DNA will be found on MT's clothes, but bacteria and mold and fungi can also degrade that, with time and summer heat.

I agree that DNA is a robust molecule, and there is a lot of it, even in a single cell, but ALL things degrade, entropy is harsh in that way.
Suffice it to say as technology changes and we have more advanced methods of retrieval such as replication of mDNA, the field of forensics changes. It used to be protocol to not bother to do a rape kit after 3 days, the thought was that semen degraded so quickly it wasn't worth it. Now we know you can get semen up to 9 days. Additionally, beyond rape kits for living victims, they now have post mortem rape kits.
 
See my sig for why I think this but the final explanation of why this happened will be very simple:

Killer's version at trial/plea agreement talks
- He knew Mollie from around town, thought she was cute, liked her and so on
- Saw her jogging and finally decided to approach her
- He politely asked Mollie how she was doing, can they talk sometime?
- Mollie went into freakout mode and threatened to call police even though he meant no harm
- He panicked and tried to run alongside her and tell her no that's not what he meant, please don't, etc. because of his illegal immigrant status
- He's worried sick about what the government and police will do if they think the illegal Mexican is stalking the pretty well known popular white girl
- She takes out her phone and is going to call the police which makes him panic further
- He goes into an unplanned blind rage and strikes her to subdue her but accidentally uses too much force and then 'blacks out'
- He comes too and doesn't know what's going on - looks in his trunk and oh **** there's the girl
- He sees she's dead so it's too late for her and is now in full fledged panic so he dumps her body as he told LE
- For the last month, he's been wrecked with guilt and grief because he meant her no harm and her death was accidental however he hasn't come forward because he's deathly afraid of what the evil government will do to him as an illegal alien who murdered a US citizen - and a popular white one at that

I realize most of that story is bull so here is the likely true version:

Actual events
- Killer knew Mollie around town and was attracted to her sexually
- He meticulously stalked her in his vehicle until she was in an area he knew was desolate and likely to be all alone
- He approached her with sexually charged intentions on his mind
- She was creeped out and said no way, felt threatened so she said she was going to call the police
- He knew that meant bad things for him as an illegal alien, and one who was trying to stalk the pretty popular all-American local white girl
- The combination of deportation if he's found out and being rejected by the girl he wants sends him into a rage and he attacks her because she wasn't going to report this to anyone and he had to have her
- Knocked her out and put her in his trunk - at this point she may still be alive but barely
- Drove her to the cornfield where he sexually assaulted her and finished her off then dumped her body
- He's felt nothing since that point because he's a psychopath who would do this again if not locked up

I'm pretty sure he didn't kidnap and murder her, just because she was going to call the police. For one thing, if she did call 911, they would have responded, talked to him, and told him to stay away from her. That would have been the end of the story. I'm sure he planned what he did. It might have escalated, but it was planned, IMHO.
 
Oh,thats right, I forgot about him saying that. So that means that he had the route in his phone somehow..I didn't know that phones could record an exact route that you took. So in other words he checked the exact route? Not just the general route that one can travel to get there?

Thanks, this is really interesting. Why DID he have the route in his phone? Was it a pre-planned location? Or did he map out the route after he left her in the field so he could return to that spot?
 
I think I'm in a very small minority, maybe even alone in my beliefs. I think he's telling the truth, for the most part. If he was going to lie, why make up a story that makes him so clearly sound guilty? I think the parts he is lying about are not remembering what happened and about just being drawn to her that day for some reason. I think he had probably been "drawn to her" several times in the past, but this was his first chance to do anything about it (without witnesses). I also think he remembers what happened during the entire time, but just doesn't want to say it out loud.

If he wanted to lie about the whole thing, I think he would have said something more along the lines of, "I stopped to talk to her for a minute and offered her a ride. She said she was on her way to her mother's house and needed to get in her run, so I left." Then he could leave the possibility open that someone else came along after he left her and assaulted/murdered her. I just find it hard to believe that anyone would be dumb enough to make up the story he's told, which leads me to believe most of it happened just the way he said or he has absolutely no imagination. MOO
I'm also wondering why he didn't say, "well, yeah. I was following her because she was pretty. I was getting up the nerve to ask her out, but in the end I was too chicken once I saw her talking to a bigger guy, so I just went home". Then, he would be admitting to following her for a normalish reason, but he would be denying any wrong doing and implicating an unknown suspect. I think LE must have had more on him once they figured out that he had access to that car. Maybe they even checked the car first before talking to him and found some evidence that Mollie was in there. Or, LE pretended to have evidence they didn't to see if he'd bite to make it easier on himself. I think LE is holding some key details back, regarding how they got CR to confess.
 
I agree with most of it, but I really doubt that violent predators give victims an opportunity to say "hey, if you don't stop that, I'm going to phone the police." That's not something I've ever heard before.
No, he may very well have made that up, but I still think something provoked him. He says he was angry, which I believe. He may have used the story about threatening to call police. But I do think she may have been aware of him cruising the area, even that he was stalking her, and may have told him to leave her alone. At that point it would have been too late , as he had already waited until she was in the perfect location to successfully attack her. She may have simply taken out her phone with the intention of calling 911, and that's when he made his move.
 
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