IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #41

[MsBetsy]

I really believe he thought he might get away with it. After a week of searches they couldn't find the body and called off the searches. Others were suspected. The family was convinced she was alive. He likely had a tentative plan if caught which included his story that he just couldn't remember what happened. He had probably gotten rid of all the evidence and knew nothing had been found.

 

[cluciano63]

I guess I don’t understand why the dissection of what CR told LE...do we really expect perps to tell the complete truth, portraying themselves in worst possible light? Of course he will omit and minimize...the miracle to me is that he admitted anything at all, video or no. Your average hardened criminal just keeps his mouth shut, opening it only to say he wants his lawyer. Seemingly this guy pretty much spilled his guts, in his way, as soon as he sat down. Not exactly a seasoned serial killer, imo...

 

[Bravo]

I wondered myself Sharon why he didn't flee. I'm sure he felt very comfortable he was not on their radar based on the pressers. Which he wasn't at that point. It was a good thing LE remained tight lipped as he might of if he felt LE and Family's focus shifted. He may not have had the means to flee if he was sending money home had child support payments etc.

 

[kpm]

Yet it is stated that the assault started and ended. Between 7:45- 8:28.

Until the autopsy was done they really had no way of knowing her time of death, they were going on what he told them at the time.

This is why I am leaning towards her being held....


Authorities have not revealed when, exactly, Tibbetts was killed.

Mortvedt tells PEOPLE that he can’t discuss whether or not she was held for any period of time after being taken.


All of a sudden he just does it,” says Mitch Mortvedt, assistant director of the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation, referring to suspect Cristhian Rivera.

“Who escalates to abduction, kidnapping and homicide that fast?”

Cops Wonder: If Mollie Tibbetts' Accused Killer Has No Record — Who Jumps to Murder That Fast?

 

[TL4S]

LE stated early on during the searches that the last digital ping was near the pig farm. CR could've gone past the pig farm on his way to the cornfield, but it would have been going an mile extra south (470th), just to have to turn around and go back north before turning east on 460th. *Please somebody inform me if I have any locations wrong!

I have heard, but have no source, that fields close to where she was found had been searched. Had some digital signals happened around there, too? That I don't know.

Anyway, the location he left her was very close to an intersection (maybe the one he claims to have taken a u-turn) which takes a short jaunt south to 470th. If CR didn't want to backtrack on 460th for any reason, that would be a logical quick route out. The pig farm would be on his way home. If he still had her phone at that point, maybe that's where he turned it off or tossed it, thus the last ping.

Blue line is his route from near abduction site, and green line is his route home. MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

I wondered myself Sharon why he didn't flee. I'm sure he felt very comfortable he was not on their radar based on the pressers. Which he wasn't at that point. It was a good thing LE remained tight lipped as he might of if he felt LE and Family's focus shifted. He may not have had the means to flee if he was sending money home had child support payments etc.

I really dont think he had the " where-with- all" to flee. Too complicated. Besides, he thought he got away with it, in my opinion.

 

[CarnegieHall]

I'm probably 2-3 threads behind, but the story still stands at this correct?

Follows in car
Gets out of car and runs near/behind her
Mollie says go away I'm going to call the phone
Mollie runs away
CR chases her
*Blackout period*
CR is at an intersection and notices one earbud on his lap
Gets out of car checks trunk to find Mollie with blood on the side of her head and the other earbud
Takes her out of trunk and drags her, then picks her up.
Places her in cornfield and covers her with corn stalks
Leaves

COD is multiple sharp force injuries.

Obviously this is all CR version and who knows whats true about it and whats not, but I guess a couple things here I am wondering:

Do we believe CR is withholding facts or did he tell LE more and they are just withholding that information until the trial?

What is the defense lawyer of CR trying to accomplish here? I notice in all of this story its never said that CR attacked her or killed her. Did he actually admit to "killing" her, because I don't see those words anywhere. Which makes me wonder as you just stated if he did have an accomplice.

JMO—I think the situation is more akin to the Hannah Graham situation and he acted alone. Even with Hannah Graham, a witness overheard her hear stating she wasn’t getting in JM’s car, and she still ended up that way. Now JM is much bigger than CR but with an element of surprise or a weapon he could of gotten Mollie in car or trunk. Plus having an accomplice during the crime is much harder to control with their actions afterwards and communications—a la David Eisenhauer and Natalie Keepers/Virginia tech murder. Now I strongly believe he had either help after the fact with evidence or with devising a story if caught. jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

LE stated early on during the searches that the last digital ping was near the pig farm. CR could've gone past the pig farm on his way to the cornfield, but it would have been going an mile extra south (470th), just to have to turn around and go back north before turning east on 460th. *Please somebody inform me if I have any locations wrong!

I have heard, but have no source, that fields close to where she was found had been searched. Had some digital signals happened around there, too? That I don't know.

Anyway, the location he left her was very close to an intersection (maybe the one he claims to have taken a u-turn) which takes a short jaunt south to 470th. If CR didn't want to backtrack on 460th for any reason, that would be a logical quick route out. The pig farm would be on his way home. If he still had her phone at that point, maybe that's where he turned it off or tossed it, thus the last ping.

Blue line is his route from near abduction site, and green line is his route home. MOO

I think you are right about the last ping being near the pig farm. After he killed her at the first location, I believe he put her body in the trunk, dragged, carried her into the field, got back in his car, ( this is when the " came to" story occurs, at the cornfield where he turned around, and then proceeded to look for a place to dump the evidence.

 

[Hatfield]

JMO
I think he thought he was totally in the clear too.

I think when he approached MT I am guessing it was further down on the road where no houses were directly there so he thought there is no way he would be caught.

He must not have watched Forensic Files enough.

There are many ways to get caught for a crime and not just getting lucky to find a video.

His first mistake was not thinking people in town could also show videos of him while he was in town before the attack.

Then his other mistake was not even worrying about the Fitbit. I am guessing he thought it was a watch and I believe it was still on her body when LE found her. So even if phone got disabled then when LE gets the Fitbit they can download all current Fitbit info to get more evidence against him.

LE has so many ways to eventually find out who a killer is. Look at the recent Golden State Killer case. He was eventually found by some relatives DNA from a database used for entirely different reasons. Geneology type reasons.

 

[MsBetsy]

Until the autopsy was done they really had no way of knowing her time of death, they were going on what he told them at the time.

This is why I am leaning towards her being held....


Authorities have not revealed when, exactly, Tibbetts was killed.

Mortvedt tells PEOPLE that he can’t discuss whether or not she was held for any period of time after being taken.


All of a sudden he just does it,” says Mitch Mortvedt, assistant director of the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation, referring to suspect Cristhian Rivera.

“Who escalates to abduction, kidnapping and homicide that fast?”

Cops Wonder: If Mollie Tibbetts' Accused Killer Has No Record — Who Jumps to Murder That Fast?

I understand. My scenario is going by what police stated in the affidavit. That the incident began at 7:45 and ended at 8:28. I'm not quoting as I don't know the exact words. But to me that means they think the whole thing occurred within that time frame. I also believe he cornered and isolated her, and killed her in a violent frenzy. There is no evidence that he held her somewhere, but we do have evidence (fit bit data) that suggests he killed her in an uncontrollable rage.

 

[TL4S]

I think you are right about the last ping being near the pig farm. After he killed her at the first location, I believe he put her body in the trunk, dragged, carried her into the field, got back in his car, ( this is when the " came to" story occurs, at the cornfield where he turned around, and then proceeded to look for a place to dump the evidence.

Yes. If his story about her grabbing her phone is at all true, she maybe did have it out of her armband and in her hand when he attacked her. Likely the phone and earbuds would have fallen. If he got her in the trunk, I could see him going back to grab them off the ground and getting into the car still holding them. They ended up on his lap or on the other seat (somewhere in the car). Maybe he was planning on keeping them to sell (risky), or he forgot about them in the process of what he was doing with her body, or he planned to burn them...whatever.

 

[MsBetsy]

Until the autopsy was done they really had no way of knowing her time of death, they were going on what he told them at the time.

This is why I am leaning towards her being held....


Authorities have not revealed when, exactly, Tibbetts was killed.

Mortvedt tells PEOPLE that he can’t discuss whether or not she was held for any period of time after being taken.


All of a sudden he just does it,” says Mitch Mortvedt, assistant director of the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation, referring to suspect Cristhian Rivera.

“Who escalates to abduction, kidnapping and homicide that fast?”

Cops Wonder: If Mollie Tibbetts' Accused Killer Has No Record — Who Jumps to Murder That Fast?

Understand. I am going by the police affidavit and by what they know about the fit bit data.

 

[jillycat]

I guess I don’t understand why the dissection of what CR told LE...do we really expect perps to tell the complete truth, portraying themselves in worst possible light? Of course he will omit and minimize...the miracle to me is that he admitted anything at all, video or no. Your average hardened criminal just keeps his mouth shut, opening it only to say he wants his lawyer. Seemingly this guy pretty much spilled his guts, in his way, as soon as he sat down. Not exactly a seasoned serial killer, imo...

I see no miracle, only someone who thought he'd gotten away with it, was then confronted with a line of questioning that we can't see into but was likely compelling to someone who didn't see it coming, and was then motivated to give up the location of his victim's body. He's not a nice guy for that. He's the guy who dumped her there and then got caught and had few if any options.

Since they knew he did it, pretending he had no idea where she was would have only increased the pressure on him.

The story he told is part of the record. With not much else to go on, we can only discuss what might have happened, what parts of his story might be true or not, and the rest is known only to LE and Mollie.

 

[kpm]

I really believe he thought he might get away with it. After a week of searches they couldn't find the body and called off the searches. Others were suspected. The family was convinced she was alive. He likely had a tentative plan if caught which included his story that he just couldn't remember what happened. He had probably gotten rid of all the evidence and knew nothing had been found.

I wonder if he checked the body after news reports stated she had a Fitbit and LE was looking into the data and her Dad was saying he believed she was alive.

That had to make him very uneasy I would imagine?

 

[TL4S]

I think that CBR was in denial about what he did, to himself, kinda lying to himself. That's why he used the blocked out excuse to not talk with LE about the worst of what he did. This is the same avoidance mechanism that I have sociopaths use before. The C in CBR should stand for Cleopatra, because CBR is the king of denial!

I agree. I think he just sort of went on with his life, more worried about where the investigation was heading than what he was going to say if they found him.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes. If his story about her grabbing her phone is at all true, she maybe did have it out of her armband and in her hand when he attacked her. Likely the phone and earbuds would have fallen. If he got her in the trunk, I could see him going back to grab them off the ground and getting into the car still holding them. They ended up on his lap or on the other seat (somewhere in the car). Maybe he was planning on keeping them to sell (risky), or he forgot about them in the process of what he was doing with her body, or he planned to burn them...whatever.

Yeah, it gets complicated for me when I read too much into where or if the ear buds were in his lap. Or whether or not she pulked out her phone. I'm just trying to look at the facts. For now I'm kind of stuck on the scenario that he chased her down, ear buds get broken in the struggle, he assaults, kills her in that area , puts her body in the trunk, takes her to the location where the body is found, then proceeds to dump the evidence in the vicinity of the farm. After all, doesn't everybody on this site say it's usually whatever is the simplist answer?! I struggled with why didn't he turn off the phone, why was earbud on his lap for too long. In my opinion, the scenario I posted upthread is the most likely thing to have happened, according to the evidence we DO know. Especially the police affidavit suggesting the time period from beginning to end of the crime being from 7:45-8:28. Thats what convinced me he killed her right away.

 

[The Farm]

There is no evidence that he held her somewhere, but we do have evidence (fit bit data) that suggests he killed her in an uncontrollable rage.

How do we know he killed her in an uncontrollable rage?

 

[Hatfield]

I understand. My scenario is going by what police stated in the affidavit. That the incident began at 7:45 and ended at 8:28. I'm not quoting as I don't know the exact words. But to me that means they think the whole thing occurred within that time frame. I also believe he cornered and isolated her, and killed her in a violent frenzy. There is no evidence that he held her somewhere, but we do have evidence (fit bit data) that suggests he killed her in an uncontrollable rage.

JMO
I totally agree.

We had talked before about the arrest warrant time range and for now I am thinking that was the exact beginning of the attack and ending of her heart beat which I think LE was able to get her heart rate from the Fitbit.

Assuming that it was still on her wrist when they found her body.

If her heart rate was shown then it would show a very obvious spike in heart rate around the time he approached her and attacked her. The heart rate would be escalated for the full 45 minutes until it would show her pulse stopped altogether. If she flat lined her pulse rate from the fitbit and if it was still on her arm then this is how I believe LE was able to get that exact time range down to the minute.

Some assumptions there but this is what I believe for now.

Which if true then it means to me that he attacked her and most likely killed her at the first confrontation site. I hope LE has found that location because there should be blood evidence on the ground and other evidence. I think he may have drug her off the road into the field to further attack her and maybe raped her right at that first confrontation zone. Once he killed her I think he just checked the road to make sure no cars coming and then put her in trunk to take her body to the 2nd and last location.

This makes the most sense to me to account for the 45 minute span which is reflected on the Arrest Warrant. I dont think he killed her at the final place because I think more than 45 minutes would have been in that time span. Which is why I think he did the attack and killing at the first confrontation zone.

 

[Bravo]

He also may have been able to resume normal routines as he is a sociopath. Possibly.

 

[TL4S]

Until the autopsy was done they really had no way of knowing her time of death, they were going on what he told them at the time.

This is why I am leaning towards her being held....


Authorities have not revealed when, exactly, Tibbetts was killed.

Mortvedt tells PEOPLE that he can’t discuss whether or not she was held for any period of time after being taken.


All of a sudden he just does it,” says Mitch Mortvedt, assistant director of the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation, referring to suspect Cristhian Rivera.

“Who escalates to abduction, kidnapping and homicide that fast?”

Cops Wonder: If Mollie Tibbetts' Accused Killer Has No Record — Who Jumps to Murder That Fast?

No, LE won't speak to that or a lot of other things, but that doesn't mean we can assume. She was abducted (taken forcibly) and kidnapped (transported in the trunk of a car), and killed. There's no proof in that statement that she was held, or not.