IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #42

[otto]

I’m not familiar with murder or the transport of bodies but I can think of ordinary events whereby people intentionally take deceptive actions to cover up things they’ve done in the hope nobody finds out.

The same question could be asked, why did he cover up her body with cornstalks?

He used locally found materials to hide her body because there's no connection between him and corn stalk leaves. It's no different than someone leaving a body in the forest and throwing leaves and branches on the body to delay detection.

 

[kpm]

Whether or not CR killed MT on 385th or the cornfield (or somewhere else entirely) is one of the questions I keep thinking and rethinking. Neither makes sense to me.

385th makes sense if it was a very quick, rage killing, but so much blood in the trunk...

And the cornfield makes sense if he was a more seasoned killer (or rapist), what with him driving all that time, thinking about it. But why a cornfield?

A third location might work, but why move her afterwards?

I suppose it isn't impossible that she was killed somewhere else and left, only to be moved a couple days later, but that does not top my list of possibilities.

If it was a rage killing he probably would have left the body right there, why transport it and risk discovery and getting blood all over the car.

There could be two potential locations according to the warrant, a secluded spot he dragged her to and the final spot he carried her to.

 

[gliving]

Note that some members (not me) of this site might also be a member of other sites and copying/pasting their own posts seems reasonable. Of course, it is possible our posts are being lifted... which I perceive as complimentary but more notably, as plagiaristic.

Such a nice thing for you to say.

 

[TL4S]

Ya, I get what you’re saying, but he’s also somewhat of an anomaly

LE words keep ringing in my head, how did he escalate to abduction, kidnapping and homicide......

Is it safe to assume...

Abduction is the initial assault and putting her in the trunk

Kidnapping, where does that fit in and why did he use both words?


This is pertaining to kids but I think the explanations fit this scenario


Acquaintance Abductions
A lower percentage of abductions are "acquaintance" abductions. These abductions account for twenty-eight percent of all abductions, wherein the victim is only slightly acquainted with the perpetrator, but can still be considered familiar with the suspect from past history. This type of abduction has the highest percentage of being female or teenage victims, as well as the "highest percentage of injured victims." Most of these abductions are associated with other sexual and physical assaults, most often by juvenile perpetrators. This can be related to the fact that a majority of these abductions and assaults come as a result of relationship or dating issues.


Stranger Kidnappings
The third type of abduction, called "stranger kidnappings", makes up about a quarter of all abductions and kidnappings (roughly twenty-four percent). In this type of crime, the victim has no previous history with the perpetrator and has no knowledge of his existence or motive. When it comes to girl victims, these kinds of kidnappings are generally associated with sexual assaults.



Abduction vs. Kidnapping- Learn the Difference

My interpretation on it was that transporting her in the trunk of the car was the kidnapping part (apparently against her will), but that's JMO. Not sure.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

The police stations would be packed at night when the bars are busy if this was the case.

That's the truth!

 

[kpm]

My interpretation on it was that transporting her in the trunk of the car was the kidnapping part (apparently against her will), but that's JMO. Not sure.

So she would have had to have been alive if it’s against her will

 

[TL4S]

So she would have had to have been alive?

Yes, but she could have been fatally injured and in the process of dying. IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

No one saw the abduction, and no one recognized anyone driving around the block more than once. We don't know how many people who lived in Brooklyn knew the suspect, and we don't know how many people would recognize the vehicle and associate it with the illegal farm hand who lived SE of Brooklyn.

The suspect did snatch a young woman out in the open during daylight, and no one saw anything. No one knew when she was abducted, where she was abducted, how, or why. After a month, when police were actively looking for a vehicle, they got lucky.

If there is disagreement with the abduction/murder risk assessment flow chart, which part of it doesn't work in this instance?

see article:
http://investigativepsych.com/Victim Target Networks Dr Godwin.pdf

To me the fact that he wasn't seen shows careful planning in itself.

 

[otto]

I especially agree with your last point, that he believed he had gotten away with it. I think that if he followed the media coverage, which is likely, he felt confident that police were not close to linking him. These stories about Mollie possibly being held by an acquaintance, would have definitely aleviated his concerns.

Mollie's father told reporters that he believed that Mollie was alive, and that some misguided man was attracted to her and took her away, that the misguided man didn't know how to get himself out of it and release her yet.

At some point after looking at the police map with the 5 locations, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of the locations was to identify vehicles. Realizing that police had nothing and were hoping to eliminate vehicles to identify the suspect told me that they were a long way from solving the abduction/murder, that they really were searching for the needle in the haystack.

I don't think any of us expected that the vehicle search would produce a lead as quickly as it did, but thankfully that strategy worked. It's not surprising that the suspect thought the same thing that we thought - that he got away clean.

 

[MassGuy]

Mollie's father told reporters that he believed that Mollie was alive, and that some misguided man was attracted to her and took her away, that the misguided man didn't know how to get himself out of it and release her yet.

At some point after looking at the police map with the 5 locations, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of the locations was to identify vehicles. Realizing that police had nothing and were hoping to eliminate vehicles to identify the suspect told me that they were a long way from solving the abduction/murder, that they really were searching for the needle in the haystack.

I don't think any of us expected that the vehicle search would produce a lead as quickly as it did, but thankfully that strategy worked. It's not surprising that the suspect thought the same thing that we thought - that he got away clean.

Exactly. Many of us thought or hoped that the police had leads, and likely a suspect. Little did we know, that they didn’t have much of anything, until they received and focused in on that CCTV footage.

 

[kpm]

To me the fact that he wasn't seen shows careful planning in itself.

That’s why I think LE had a timeframe of 5-10

I think he was there in town those times, scene on video perhaps.

 

[otto]

Ya, I get what you’re saying, but he’s also somewhat of an anomaly

LE words keep ringing in my head, how did he escalate to abduction, kidnapping and homicide......

Is it safe to assume...

Abduction is the initial assault and putting her in the trunk

Kidnapping, where does that fit in and why did he use both words?

This is pertaining to kids but I think the explanations fit this scenario

Acquaintance Abductions
A lower percentage of abductions are "acquaintance" abductions. These abductions account for twenty-eight percent of all abductions, wherein the victim is only slightly acquainted with the perpetrator, but can still be considered familiar with the suspect from past history. This type of abduction has the highest percentage of being female or teenage victims, as well as the "highest percentage of injured victims." Most of these abductions are associated with other sexual and physical assaults, most often by juvenile perpetrators. This can be related to the fact that a majority of these abductions and assaults come as a result of relationship or dating issues.

Stranger Kidnappings
The third type of abduction, called "stranger kidnappings", makes up about a quarter of all abductions and kidnappings (roughly twenty-four percent). In this type of crime, the victim has no previous history with the perpetrator and has no knowledge of his existence or motive. When it comes to girl victims, these kinds of kidnappings are generally associated with sexual assaults.

Abduction vs. Kidnapping- Learn the Difference

Mordvedt makes a very good point. No one starts a criminal career with a daylight abduction and murder of a young woman. I think it's safe to assume that this is not the first time that the suspect is involved with criminal activity, but that it is the first time it is this close to home, and the first time he is arrested.

 

[kpm]

Mollie's father told reporters that he believed that Mollie was alive, and that some misguided man was attracted to her and took her away, that the misguided man didn't know how to get himself out of it and release her yet.

At some point after looking at the police map with the 5 locations, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of the locations was to identify vehicles. Realizing that police had nothing and were hoping to eliminate vehicles to identify the suspect told me that they were a long way from solving the abduction/murder, that they really were searching for the needle in the haystack.

I don't think any of us expected that the vehicle search would produce a lead as quickly as it did, but thankfully that strategy worked. It's not surprising that the suspect thought the same thing that we thought - that he got away clean.

I think RT was close to the truth of what happened, it’s eerie

 

[gliving]

I know, I just find it to be one more example of Rivera being a cold blooded murderer.

You're preaching to the choir here. I think it's the one thing we all agree on.
Although he does deserve his day in court.

 

[mickey2942]

I completely agree. I wonder how many other young women have been missing in this area, or surrounding area. Or young men.

 

[TL4S]

If it was a rage killing he probably would have left the body right there, why transport it and risk discovery and getting blood all over the car.

There could be two potential locations according to the warrant, a secluded spot he dragged her to and the final spot he carried her to.

If it was a rage killing, maybe he would have left the body. Or maybe somebody drove by while they were out of sight and he knew his car had been seen. It's hard to tell.

My question with killing her at the cornfield is why he says his story about "blocked memories" but then starts again at the intersection by the cornfield and all the description after? If he was avoiding talking about the murder itself, why not start at "suddenly I came to and she was lying there in the cornfield, so I covered her with corn leaves"? That's what I'm having a hard time with. JMO

 

[otto]

Psychology changes, what was considered to be correct twenty years ago, may be debunked. The studies in birth personality does make sense when you consider how many lousy parents have great kids and how many great parents have lousy kids. It also explains criminal or antisocial behavior in children.

Nature and nurture both influence the development of personality. It's never one or the other.

 

[Jaclin]

I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that murderers can't be "nice guys" - either to some people in their lives or for a portion of their lives? All murderers are not necessarily horrible monsters their entire lives.
Personally, I don't think CW would have ever done to a stranger what he did to his family. I think it's also possible that CR would have never done to a family member/friend what he did to Mollie.
Is it any wonder that these guys have been described as nice or good fathers? People always hide the worst of themselves if possible.

that's true. people present themselves differently to different people. case in point is when I described my dad as being abusive. He broke my mom's nose once and shoved and pinned her to the ground regularly. Well, my cousin couldn't handle it and said she wasn't going to tolerate me talking about him that way, and the only reason I was even sharing was that she wanted to know why I was in a big hurry to move out as soon as I turned 21 instead of finishing school. She always thought he was nice, and he has always treated her nice. She basically was trying to call me out for lying. She lived 4 hours away and only saw him on holidays or a few times in the summer. But, I lived with him for 21 years every day and saw a different side.

 

[MassGuy]

I think RT was close to the truth of what happened, it’s eerie

I don’t get the impression that RT was close at all. It seemed like he was hopeful that someone familiar to her had a romantic interest, and made a move that ended up putting him over his head. RT was hoping that this person was holding her, and that Mollie was alive.

In reality, Mollie encountered a sexually motivated fiend who attacked and killed her. RT’s theory was based on hope, as the scenario he put forth, was one of the only ones in which Mollie was still living.

 

[Bravo]

Mordvedt makes a very good point. No one starts a criminal career with a daylight abduction and murder of a young woman. I think it's safe to assume that this is not the first time that the suspect is involved with criminal activity, but that it is the first time it is this close to home, and the first time he is arrested.

Agree. Sometimes a predator will hunt closer to home when comfortable.