GUILTY IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #50

[FLmom777]

I guarantee that if someone close to you, say a friend was convicted because 'due process' hadn't been followed, you would have a totally different perspective and opinion or maybe you wouldn't.

Due process was followed. Nothing he said between the time of his first Miranda rights and the second was allowed in the trial. His being tired is no excuse. It doesn’t matter. I’m sure as a young man he has worked all day and then played all night.

 

[rebel123]

It's near insulting to hear that CBR's rights violated for having to answer questions from investigators after he worked a long day on the farm!

Ask how many Brooklyn farmers put in 12 hour days only to grab a bite and join their neighbors to search for Mollie?

Dalton worked 12.5 hour days on a construction crew and managed to drive 150 miles after his shift to meet with investigators and search for Mollie.

And the hog farmer with prior stalking charges? He endured hours of questioning at the fire station and doubt he was offered food.

CBR, convicted for this murder, was hardly singled out without cause!

MOO

I see no mention of Miranda Rights in your post. I best not address the rest of it.

 

[Seattle1]

No doubt the Judge has reasons for allo


He had an 11 hour work day, was questioned for a similar period. He was clearly 'tired' and could have been 'babbling' any old rubbish; that's not conducive with 'best evidence' According to Romaro he was free to leave at anytime, that's what she testified in court.

The cops might have been tired, but as pointed out by the Defence Team, law enforcement had substantial resources, actually anything they wanted,
"unlimited resources of the federal government," including the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security.

When you state 'And he was given chances to rest during that long interview' Is that when Romero went off to her senior officers to feed them his statements and obtain a strategy for further questioning. So he was given rest time when they dictated he should rest. No doubt the interview in Spanish would tell us more.

Seems OP really hung up on the 11-hour interview. I strongly recommend OP view the defense expert witness testimony (re. sleep deprivation) during the suppression hearing. The expert didn't move the court whatsoever -- me either.

 

[Seattle1]

I see no mention of Miranda Rights in your post. I best not address the rest of it.

What part of deleting all statements by CBR between 11:30pm and early morning due to deficient Miranda warning is misunderstood?

It's not disputed that the state admitted the error, and the Court provided relief.

 

[rebel123]

1) Who, may I ask, has decided that “the US has potentially as many as 120,000 people incarcerated as a result of conviction”?

You may ask - smarter people then me -
Miscarriage of justice - Wikipedia.

2)If the US “potentially” has 120,000 wrongfully convicted people incarcerated people couldn’t you also make the statement that “potentially” there are, let’s say 2, wrongfully convicted people incarcerated.

If it were '2', that is still '2' too many. I'm sure many here will think that's o.k as long as it's not family or friends.

 

[rebel123]

The Miranda violation (that the judge cured with his ruling) would not have changed the interview at all, CBR had the power to leave the interview whenever he felt like it before being read his Miranda Warning and being placed in custody. He also had the right to ask for an attorney once the warning had been read.

He did not have to participate once the warning was read to him, as he was told that 'you have the right to remain silent". Leaving out 'anything you say can and will be used against you' didn't alter the above facts, as he was told directly after that that he had the right to attorney and if he couldn't afford one, one would be provided to him. That he didn't ask for an attorney, or even tell his sweater-ninja story, isn't the officers' fault.

A neat post, is there a transcript of the complete interview anywhere?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

If it were '2', that is still '2' too many. I'm sure many here will think that's o.k as long as it's not family or friends.

You didn’t answer my question. Who decided 120,000 people were in jail wrongly convicted?
You are right that “2” is too many. My point was that I can make up numbers also.
As far as the other part of your post, I must be different than you. I love my family and friends but if they were accused of a heinous crime like this, and with evidence this strong to prove it, even with identical questions about Miranda etc, the last thing I would want would be for them to be let off because of a technicality. I would continue to love them, and support them, bake them cookies...and visit them in jail.

edit: My bad, I failed to see your Wikipedia link before responding. I saw your number by the Innocence Project. I also saw their supposed method of coming up with that number, which seemed to be a lot of pieces-parts thrown into a cauldron to stir. These included reports from Iceland and Scotland and a lot of self- reporting by inmates. Your number is right, in that it exists. I would question it’s validity.

 

[Harvath]

I guarantee that if someone close to you, say a friend was convicted because 'due process' hadn't been followed, you would have a totally different perspective and opinion or maybe you wouldn't.

Depends on the situation quite frankly. The details. You are talking a hypothetical. Too many variables. Staying on topic. In this case. The murder of Mollie Tibbetts or to be technical I believe it’s the state of Iowa vs CBR on official documents….where/when was due process not given? Questioning a suspect while he is “sleepy” isn’t illegal….nor should it be. At any time he could speak up and plead the 5th and ask for a state given attorney. He *chose* to talk and lead them to the body. Ignorance of the law/rights isn’t an excuse. Example….if I drive 80mph in 25….and say “I didn’t know the speed limit/didn’t see the signs” won’t fly with the officer that pulled me over. Nor will it work before a judge. Don’t want to be ignorant of American laws? Don’t come to America and possibly commit a crime . Problem solved. As for the Miranda argument….we’ll if that held legal ground in this case….a jury of 12 wouldn’t have found the defendant guilty of murder in the 1st. It’s great you have a bleeding heart. Seriously, for someone as jaded and sarcastic as me….it’s an admirable quality. But make no mistake, the real monsters out there….they will take every opportunity and advantage to exploit those who “care”. Just so they can have one more rape, one more kill. That’s how they(at least some) operate. Bundy for prime example. They run on a whole different “operating system” to those most of us are accustom to.

On a personal note….for all intents and purposes CBR is guilty. He was found guilty. Legally, he did it. He stabbed an innocent girl REPEATEDLY over and over. She suffered, spent her last moments horrified, terrified, scared out of her mind. Was almost definitely raped….alive or dead at the time we will never know. Forgive all of us on this forum is we don’t feel bad the now convicted murderer was kept awake. I guess they should have offered him a nap and cookie. First class comforts…..certainly more than he offered Mollie.

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree, there seems to be a logical sequence of events for that night, from 8:28 through 8:53. CBR injures and abducts her on 385th Ave., drives at varying speeds to the cornfield, where he, alone, assaults and kills her. Done.

There's a good chance that is exactly how it went down.

But, let's not dismiss those who say there are unanswered questions. LE testified they can not determine when or where Mollie died. The tech expert can not determine exactly where her phone was located when it went dark. The cell tower based search area was 17 sq. miles, so how can we determined that the phone went dark at the cornfield and not somewhere else in that 17 sq. mile area? Why was there a dot at 430th and 200 on the LE point-of-interest map early on? Mollie Tibbetts search: Investigators highlight five possible points of interest

CBR got caught and confessed, came up with a couple different stories, and from what we know, isn't talking about the rest. We can all assume as to the whys, but as @SharonNeedles pointed out, justice for Mollie is to have everyone connected be convicted. Likely, CBR IS the only guilty party. BUT, if anyone else was involved either before, during, or after the crime was committed, they are getting off scot-free unless CBR talks, and who knows why he might not. I think it's a fair point to make, since we don't have all the answers.

Yes, I think in every case there are always unanswered questions. Those answers usually lie with the killer, as only he and the victim would be able to fill in the gaps.

LE may not be able to determine exactly where she died, but they know the general location and they know CBR carried her into the cornfield. The point of interest on the map may be where the car sped up. That's something a witness might notice. Even if the tech expert can't determine where her phone was when it went dark, we know it was soon after he gradually slowed down, and we know he stopped on the dirt road leading into the cornfield because that's where he left the body.

The entire crime seems to have taken about 25-30 minutes. That's enough time to fight, subdue, rape, stab and kill someone, travel 10 miles, and maybe cover them with cornstalks and get back to the car. We don't know the order of events, but it doesn't leave much time to do anything else.

If someone else was involved, he would have put the blame on them, since that's exactly what he did, but his story wasn't believable.

IMO

 

[PrairieWind]

MsBetsy, I agree. I think if anyone else was involved CBR would have said something to work a deal. He didn't. His sweater ninja story just isn't believable either. I think maybe this weekend when I get some time I want to go through that time line and the map, cell ping info. Not that it really matters. It doesn't matter if he killed her on the road or in the corn field. I wonder if he had prior knowledge of the location where she was found. Did he have that spot already picked out to go to and assault her?

 

[Seattle1]

MsBetsy, I agree. I think if anyone else was involved CBR would have said something to work a deal. He didn't. His sweater ninja story just isn't believable either. I think maybe this weekend when I get some time I want to go through that time line and the map, cell ping info. Not that it really matters. It doesn't matter if he killed her on the road or in the corn field. I wonder if he had prior knowledge of the location where she was found. Did he have that spot already picked out to go to and assault her?

I don't know that the cornfield location (ownership) ever reported and/or whether or not CBR had prior access to that location but it was very eerie when the defense photo admitted in court of CBR, his child, and child's mother-- featured them standing in a cornfield.

 

[PrairieWind]

I don't know that the cornfield location (ownership) ever reported and/or whether or not CBR had prior access to that location but it was very eerie when the defense photo admitted in court of CBR, his child, and child's mother-- featured them standing in a cornfield.

That was a bit eerie. But everything around there is cornfield. I also don't remember ever hearing who owned the field. I'm sure whoever it was didn't want their name involved. Bad enough that they know this happened on their property. But a field like that would be easy to access. Farmers don't patrol really. The corn was very high so no one would see him or his car in there unless they were really looking. It provided the "privacy" that he needed for this.

 

[skyedaze]

I guarantee that if someone close to you, say a friend was convicted because 'due process' hadn't been followed, you would have a totally different perspective and opinion or maybe you wouldn't.

If they said ninjas did it I would call BS, the police and the psych hospital.

 

[skyedaze]

This all makes sense, except that the timeline doesn't match Horan's testimony of cell data. He said there was varying speeds after 8:28, and from around 8:35 to 8:53, beginning 4-5 miles south of 385th Ave. (which, coincidentally, coincides with the southernmost dot on LE's point-of-iterest map put out when she were missing), the phone was traveling around 60mph. At one point it slowed down, the arcs overlapped (so an assumed stop), and after 8:53 there was nothing. So he was not at the cornfield already by 8:35. However, I'll concede that we do not know at what time he slowed and stopped. The only thing the experts were able to tell us was the general area the slow occurred, which was in a 17 sq. mile area which included the pig farmer's house and the cornfield.

If Mollie was alive when CBR put her in the trunk, I don't think he would have left her phone on her arm. jmo. She could have called for help. Maybe he took it from her on 385th.

And CBR did live off 200 (he did not live on Yarabee farm proper, but housing provided), and if that's the route he took, he did go right past his house. It's like 3 miles south of 385th. Testimony did not cover what happened between 8:28 and 8:35 other than "varying speeds." I'm not saying he stopped at his house. I'm saying we don't know.

My issue is not with CBR's guilt. I just wish we had a clearer picture of events between 8:28 and 8:53. If LE doesn't know where or when she was killed, than neither do I. But I'm wondering why it took CBR something around 20 minutes to get 10 miles away, sometimes going at 60mph. I very well might be missing something...

Horan talks about this at around the 38 min mark.

The testimony says at 8:28 the phone is picked up about 4 miles away traveling at 60 mph and slows around 8:35. Moo he is looking for a place to take her/turn into and he's not sure/misses his turn because it is hilly and near dusk.
Keep in mind, she was not found on the side of the road. She was not found 25ft into the corn off the road. She 400ft into that cornfield.
Her phone continued movement until 8:53. It was either on her arm or in his pocket or combo til it was turned off.
I know from my own experience, if I have google maps up while I sit on the couch in my family room, there is a blue dot showing my GPS location. If I walk across my house looking at my phone, the blue dot moves with me. I do not live in a tiny house but it is not a mansion either and I can see that dot moving.
She was 400 ft into that cornfield....that is longer than a football field. To me he drove up the driveway a bit and stopped..got out and either chased her around, dragged her or carried her the rest of the 400 ft. She was killed there because otherwise her blood would be all over that trunk. Plus her clothes are ripped off in the cornfield.
400 ft. The phone moved 400 ft into that cornfield...my house is not 400 ft wide. That a good amount of distance to drag/chase/haul a dead girl or mostly dead girl around. When he was done, he had time to turn the phone off before he drove home.

That's the way I see it.

Any "holes" have been created by CBR.

With regard to CW being in that area. We all know sex offenders live all around us.
Evil lurks everywhere as we go about our lives.

CBR was going to get Mollie or a Mollie-esque looking (let's be real and Iris looking) girl sooner or later.
Ironically, his very efforts to circle her until she was in a place where no one would see him abduct her is exactly what got him noticed.
Thank goodness for the video.
God Bless Mollie.

 

[justtrish]

Answer: He killed her....at the cornfield.
Okay I used to run maybe this will help you. Mollie ran a 10 minute mile. The route she was going that day was 3 miles out to 200th st turn around and 3 miles back. Mollie left at about 7:30, so she should have been back by 8:45. Christina S. saw her on 385th by the S curve around 7:45 ish. She would have hit 200th st at about 8:15..so she is on time to hit 200th, turn around and start back home.
She was abducted between 8:20 and 8:30...on her way back. Remember CBR said he made a U turn. Why say that? Because he did. Mollie was going back home. So to get back to 200th and then to the cornfield he had to turn around.

Anyway...he drives 10 miles at 60 mph. That puts him by the cornfield by 8:35 ish. The pig farmer is basically around the corner...10 miles from 385th.

To me, there was no stop...the phone went dark 26 minutes later because he ripped it off of her arm (it was in a running armband) and turned it off. She was dead by 8:53 -9 pm. He didn't make a stop on the way..he was at his destination...the cornfield...10 miles away.
8:27 -8:35 ish he is driving to the cornfield.
8:35 ish to 8:53 ish he is attacking raping killing and she is dead and so is her phone.
There is no stop..except the cornfield.
He never went to or past his house. He went 385th to 200th to 460th to cornfield. Kill. Done.
The phone stopped 10 miles away because that is where the cornfield is.

Thank you for this. I think it would have been good for the prosecution to lay this out exactly as you did. They gave all the info, but never actually said this to piece it together like that.

 

[justtrish]

I agree there are many unanswered questions about Mollie’s death. This is not on the investigators IMO and additional information won’t change anything about CBR’s sentence. Would more detail about those last minutes of her life help Mollie’s family and loved ones in their grief?

The unknown facts and details that are really bothering me are ones I haven’t seen mentioned lately. Clearly CBR knew enough to turn off and get rid of Mollie’s phone and her FitBit. He had the murder weapon with him and was prepared. I also believe as others have stated that he had stalked her previously. And the proximity of Mollie’s body to WC’s farm could have been a setup honestly. Were WC’s stalking charges publicly known? Without the video showing his car, CBR may well have gotten away with Mollie’s murder. I believe Mollie’s assault and murder may have been planned for some time.

This is what I wonder.. this route he took to town is likely the route he always took. She had several run routes of varying lengths. It's possible he passed her many times before and recognized that this was a road she was often on at certain times of the day. He may not have seen her the first couple times he went back and forth.. he may have been circling the area waiting to see if she ran that way this day and then she did.

 

[skyedaze]

This is what I wonder.. this route he took to town is likely the route he always took. She had several run routes of varying lengths. It's possible he passed her many times before and recognized that this was a road she was often on at certain times of the day. He may not have seen her the first couple times he went back and forth.. he may have been circling the area waiting to see if she ran that way this day and then she did.

Sharks circle where they know their prey hangs out.

 

[PrairieWind]

Skyedaze, I think that is a pretty good explanation of what happened. I also wonder if she tried to run once in the field. I can't really imagine her walking with him back into that field, even with a knife in her back. She was pretty athletic. My guess, and its just a guess, is that he either killed her or badly injured her, and then carried her into the corn, where he assaulted her.

 

[justtrish]

The only reason there are any questions as to exactly what happened is because Mollie Tibbett’s killer has chosen to claim he “blocked/blacked out”. I don’t believe that for a second.
I personally think Mollie was injured and unconscious in the trunk of the car. CBR has the answer for us all, but he’s not talking.
If he was riding around for twenty minutes to go ten miles maybe he was trying to figure out where exactly to take her. Again though, CBR has the answer to that and he’s not talking.
I don’t need to know the details or fill in the gaps because the gaps are caused by killer not filling them in. There was still plenty of evidence that pointed only to CBR.

I agree! If there was 2 hours of missing time, it might be more critical to know what happen then, but 5-10 minutes could be any number of things, but not enough time to really make a difference in the main facts that he saw her, did something on the side of the road, put her in the trunk, drove to a spot and then did something else and dumped her. The exact facts of did he kill her at the first place or the second don't matter when he still killed her either way, either location. He didn't have enough time to completely go somewhere else or have another person involved that he drove to another location and back.. he admitted he was present for all the different steps and then the 2 people just walked off and he left evidence on the side of the road. It's like the part that are not true are just sorta inserted in ways that do not make sense and that is because he had to make that part up. My opinion of course, but what makes sense is the parts of the story he tells exactly what he did.. the parts he doesn't want to own he creates a story that doesn't make any sense.

 

[skyedaze]

Skyedaze, I think that is a pretty good explanation of what happened. I also wonder if she tried to run once in the field. I can't really imagine her walking with him back into that field, even with a knife in her back. She was pretty athletic. My guess, and its just a guess, is that he either killed her or badly injured her, and then carried her into the corn, where he assaulted her.

Sadly, I agree 100%.