ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 56

[jepop]

Yes so attacked 4 people in the span of less than 15 mins if you count walking from car to house and back.

Yes, possibly even less if you give him a minimum of 2 mins to park, 2 mins to enter the house and 3 mins to leave and be exiting the area at 4.20 am. ie Enter house at 4.08am, leave house at 4.17am if we give him those minutes (Unless he had an instant telporation in vehicle). That equals a total of 9 mins in the house, unless like I say he teleported.

 

[Sleuth2010]

I didn't mention my opinion one way or the other, however until he is found guilty in a court of law he should be considered innocent.
It's a fundamental legal principal that has been around since antiquity, through English common law, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, American jurisprudence, The EU Constitution etc.
(wiki has a pretty good article on it)

Presumption of innocence - Wikipedia​

en.wikipedia.org

John Book asked Counttrarian
-------
Why are you afraid to 'mention your opinion one way or the other' here?
- - -
OK here is the thing Counttrarian... our justice system and courts of laws are unbelievably flawed. Starting with the gouge of $ 500.00 an hour for counsel (or $ 375.00 the " cheap lawyers" ) We are not the courts. We do not have twisted rules to adhere to, when sleuthing a crime. We are the people, who use common sense. This * killer* maniac has left a trail of bold, truthful, guilty evidence. And it took amazing feats of hard work, for law enforcement and support teams to take-him-down. Meanwhile, sleuths will continue to use common sense. We can only hope our convoluted court rules do not allow a vicious, evil killer to go free. Good sleuthing Counttrarian. Great answer John Book .

 

[Bbgiraffe]

Not the grammar. The incorrect information, as I first mentioned.

I would think that something like the exact (correct) locations and movements of the suspect in a quadruple murder would be pretty important.

 

[AngTxGal]

I think the PCA presents some pretty strong evidence for probable guilt. But a conviction will require more although I'm pretty sure LE will have it.

For example, in a rural area like where we are talking about, the same cell tower may serve both BK's residence and 1122 King as someone determine. So the police affidavit about him using cell services at these locales at various times may be ultimately irrelevant. A less accusative translation could be that BK was using cellular resources consistent with him bening at home when the crime was committed.

I think he is guilty but if we are to look critically at the evidence we can't take every police statement at face value.

Agree, but the purpose of a PCA is to convince a judge that the guy should be arrested, that happened so it was enough. The PCA did what it was supposed to do.

A trial has a different standard- beyond reasonable doubt. So the PCA does not have to meet the standard of reasonable doubt.

Other warrants for his apartment, car, his parents home will yield more evidence. And all of that and whatever else they have will be presented in court.

I think BK’s attorney will suggest he make a plea, if he goes to trial he could get the Death Penalty. But… his ego may be convinced he could be found innocent.

JMO

 

[Ap186]

I would think that something like the exact (correct) locations and movements of the suspect in a quadruple murder would be pretty important.

Exactly!

 

[SunnyBooBoo]

I don't know of any such chance of blood through the wall in a home in the Rockies. Maybe the "thud" damaged the wall? If not that room would have been freezing.

This was a rental in a college town set up for 6 different tenants. The add-ons look a bit shoddy imo, but brings in $$$. Doubt they were using A+ contractors from Angie's list for maintenance and additions. So I believe the structure wasn't built to the highest of standards, just good enough, which means makes sense that that could be blood leaking down the side of the house. Imo.

 

[rsd1200]

Questions from News Nation Interview.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611539622957387777

 

[Speculaytor]

I think the PCA presents some pretty strong evidence for probable guilt. But a conviction will require more although I'm pretty sure LE will have it.

For example, in a rural area like where we are talking about, the same cell tower may serve both BK's residence and 1122 King as someone determine. So the police affidavit about him using cell services at these locales at various times may be ultimately irrelevant. A less accusative translation could be that BK was using cellular resources consistent with him bening at home when the crime was committed.

I think he is guilty but if we are to look critically at the evidence we can't take every police statement at face value.

Unless there is a plausible explanation for his DNA on the sheath of the knife that killed them, the PCA is more than enough for me if I were on this jury.

 

[wary]

IMO, perhaps he was in the neighborhood that many times for another reason

Was it another reason that completely disappeared after Nov 13th?

 

[Riparthur]

<modsnip: rude>

My personal theory is that the one who saw the stranger had seen strangers in the house before. I believe that she was startled and frightened, possibly because of the weird sounds she’d heard recently, quite likely because there was something about his body language that just wasn’t quite right. But, I think she talked herself into believing that she was being silly, that everything was all right—see, everything’s quiet now.

I find this scenario easy to believe, specially because I’ve been very slow to phone 911, myself, at a time it was justified.

MOO my own opinion

<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped>

Yes what you said totally makes sense
Poor girl must’ve just been startled.

I don’t think anyone would ever think your friends have been murdered after hearing a bit of noise.

Thank you for your response x

 

[AngTxGal]

I would think that something like the exact (correct) locations and movements of the suspect in a quadruple murder would be pretty important.

I would guess that the PCA served its purpose, which was to have BK arrested.

To assume the PCA must serve some other legal purpose would be incorrect From my understanding.
What other purpose could it have?


JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Respectfully, I am not a family member, but in the context of presumption of innocence, I, too, have questions.

We don't know who killed them yet. BK stands accused. I don't believe MPD framed anyone, they merely followed the leads and made conclusions based on crime scene, DNA, the digital data, and the witness' report. With the information they had, they did professional job. If there is a sheath lying on the victim's bed with someone's DNA, they have to investigate the DNA, and follow the DNA owner. We, the public, have to rely on the affidavit. And here are some things that I can't understand.

I tend to agree with @drmrgrl in that the sheath with DNA lying on the bed is almost too easy. If it was BK's, why isn't it covered in his DNA? Why one spot? But maybe, there are explanations to this.

Here is what I can't get.

The murderer, probably, came for one target and overkilled + 3 - on two floors! He is horribly cruel. Did he, for example, start on floor 3, then suspected that someone heard him on floor 2, and went down to eliminate the witnesses? He killed someone who merely heard sounds and said, "there is someone there" . The murderer kills someone hearing him, and others, who were sleeping, not even true witnesses. But then, he bypasses a bona fide eyewitness staring at him with eyes wide open! It doesn't make any sense. Having killed four, you don't leave the fifth, in fact, the only true witness.

Then, he allegedly returns at 9:20 am - to retrieve his sheath, I'd imagine. Why doesn't he get it back? Knowing this sheath might be his undoing. There is no police around. There are no people around house. Why not come in and get the sheath? All he needed to do was to go via the same doors on the 3d floor, and back. Makes no sense, unless something or someone scared him. Then, what and whom? We don't hear about it. We hear nothing about the doings in the house between the killer departing and the police emerging. Everything is so quiet that the killer can't get his sheath.

I hope it gets known during the trial, but so far, question mark. Too many unanswered questions.

(Nothing changes if the target was on floor 2. He kills two people, then passes by a witness who saw him, and goes up to deal with two women, for having heard him, and a barely barking dog).

These are great questions, but answering them is not the purpose of the PCA.
The purpose of the PCA was to get the accuse murderer off the street and into custody, that is what happened.
Now we proceed to more investigation and preparation of a trial.
At some point BK will be presented with more evidence, and at that time he may choose to change his plea to guilty. This way he could spend his life in prison.
If he does plea- we may never see all the evidence against him.
If he doesn’t plea- he will go to trial and we will see the full range of evidence against him. If he loses he may get death.

I’m guessing what is in the PCA are some highlights necessary to get the point across, but there was more and after his home and car and phone and the home of his parents is searched there will be much more.

Idaho won’t play here, I expect the DA to go for the death penalty.

JMO

 

[sleuther123]

I'll be interested to find out what BK left down south...likely the knife +/- clothing etc...

ie. as per the PCA - pings in Johnson etc.

 

[jcamh]

How many pages are included in the documents that were released following BK's arraignment? I've seen and read 18 pages, listed as Attachment A. But I read somewhere else that there were 72 pages. If there are that many pages, can someone share a link to the bigger document? Thank you.

 

[MMLTW]

You know there's a Johnson, WA right next to Uniontown, WA. I gotta wonder if the Johnson, ID in the PCA is actually Johnson, WA?

Interesting idea, and makes a great deal of sense to me.

I've been thinking about his driving route, his returns to the crime scene, and the mobile phone issue. First, it seems clear that BK assumed that LE would only check cell towers near the crime scene, and he felt comfortable carrying his phone along and only turning it off when he wanted to hide his whereabouts in a specific locale. As to why he carried the phone in the first place, perhaps he wanted it to keep from getting lost on his return trip. He may not yet have felt familiar enough with the route or may have just been the kind of person who relies on cellphone GPS all the time.

It appears that he didn't turn off the cellphone during the 9:00 a.m. (-ish) trip back to the area of the house the next morning. I don't think he had any idea of going back in to get the knife sheath. He would be very vulnerable in daylight, and in any event, by that time of day, there would be people up and about in the neighborhood. A simpler explanation is that he just went back to see if anything was happening.

What's interesting to me is that he turned off his phone for a period of time the second evening when he was in the area of Johnson, ID. Apparently, he wanted to be sure his whereabouts at that time couldn't be traced. If it was indeed Johnson, ID, I would assume that he was getting rid of incriminating evidence in some remote place there...but if it was Johnson, WA, and near his return route of the night before, it could be that he had already ditched/buried those items the night before (makes the most sense to me), and then went back the second day to get rid of more items (towels and such) from his post-murder clean-up or to check after suddenly realizing that he couldn't remember anything about the knife sheath.

I wonder if the knife isn't buried somewhere around there, or if there are any bodies of water near the road in that area.

 

[everybodhi]

Affidavit Page 6 also says

“Areviewoffootage from multiple videos obtained fromthe KingRoadNeighborhood showed multiple sightings of Suspect Vehicle 1 starting at 3:29 a.m. and ending at 4:20 a.m.”

Does this mean the car was recorded leaving at 4:20AM or is it parked at that time?
There is a camera getting footage ofthe intersection of King and Queen, and also a camera getting footage of the parking lot on the hill behind 1122 King Rd.
Which of these got the footage of the white Elantra at 4:20?

If it is the parking lot that got footage of the Elantra at 4:20, where did it go to not be found on the camera that films the intersection of King and Queen? There is no other exit.

So it must have been spotted at the enter section of King and Queen at 4:20AM leaving the crime scene?


JMO

Yes, the car departed the King Road neighborhood around 4:20 AM, “at a high rate of speed”.
The car was first on camera leaving Pullman WA at 2:44 AM, returning to Pullman at 5:25 AM.
So, he had time to stop between Moscow and Pullman and get rid of evidence.
I think he would keep the phone turned off (2:47-4:48) until after he disposed of bloody evidence.
Jmo.

Probable Cause Affidavit

 

[wary]

IMO, Suspect Vehicle #1 as opposed to……….Suspect Vehicle #2? Somebody else on foot? Another car? If there was only one vehicle involved, wouldn’t LE just label it: “Suspect Vehicle?”

Maybe and maybe not. I don’t think that there’s much point in parsing the document that thoroughly, and reading things into it that it doesn’t say. It wasn’t designed for that.

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

As I read it, you seem to be saying you don't believe the PCA because the facts do not seem to be the actions of a perfectly rational, logical person.

IMO there are two problems with this: firstly, that a person committing 4 murders during a 15 minute time must be, has to be completely rational and logical throughout that entire 15 minutes.

Secondly, I think a PCA is a fascinating kind of document, that we only see in this kind of situation ie murder.

We don't (thank goodness), have highly skilled people investigating and recording our every action throughout our own lives. Believe me, if you were to read a statement about my actions, you'd be exclaiming 'she walked right past the keys she was supposedly looking for! I can't believe it! Look at that, she typed up a great long email and then couldn't find the email address and ended up phoning them instead! This is impossible....' and on and on.

I believe PCA. I believe MPD. I wonder if MPD's facts are full because, after all, they had to operate with the information available to them, and whatever they obtained from the CS.

@Cedars, the keys I can totally get! Hurting or killing others I can't fathom. However - even if I can't understand the logic of your actions, it doesn't mean that there is none. I am sure if i asked you, you'd explain to me what i missed. If the murderer killed 4 people in 15 minutes, his logic differs from ours, but it doesn't mean that he has none. (If we assume he had none, that opens the way to question of competence, and I believe he is competent). His logic is simply very different. And maybe, the explanation would simply be, "because I liked it". And if we accept it, that he merely liked killing, then his actions indicate sadistic cruelty and feeding inner hedonism with murders. This would be my explanation for his logic as of today.

However, not at the expense of own life. He cares about himself, hence, to me, nothing provides the explanation why he spared Nr 5, unless there are some facts we are not privy to. (And we might be not, after all, PCA is geared to prove the killer, not explaining, why this or that. We, however, are interested in the motive and actions). Also, the house being quiet till noon and him coming back and leaving without the sheath makes no sense because, after all, he cares about himself.

 

[AngTxGal]

I can't remember, did we find out if he went as far down as Clarkston/Lewiston?

Asking as it's close to that Snake River that has come up a lot on the threads. Snake river for disposal... but maybe too far out of his way. Not sure he'd go that far.

We do know on the Affidavit p. 8 it mentions a white sedan consistent with the Elantra is visible on a camera in Pullman, WA at 5:25 driving toward BKs apartment.
How far could he get if he left the home at 1122 King Road at 4:20?

Using Google Maps
Moscow to Genesse= 21 min
Genessee to Pullman - 29 min

It looks to me like this is cutting it close.

JMO

 

[mcmaffy]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Respectfully, I am not a family member, but in the context of presumption of innocence, I, too, have questions.

We don't know who killed them yet. BK stands accused. I don't believe MPD framed anyone, they merely followed the leads and made conclusions based on crime scene, DNA, the digital data, and the witness' report. With the information they had, they did professional job. If there is a sheath lying on the victim's bed with someone's DNA, they have to investigate the DNA, and follow the DNA owner. We, the public, have to rely on the affidavit. And here are some things that I can't understand.

I tend to agree with @drmrgrl in that the sheath with DNA lying on the bed is almost too easy. If it was BK's, why isn't it covered in his DNA? Why one spot? But maybe, there are explanations to this.

Here is what I can't get.

The murderer, probably, came for one target and overkilled + 3 - on two floors! He is horribly cruel. Did he, for example, start on floor 3, then suspected that someone heard him on floor 2, and went down to eliminate the witnesses? He killed someone who merely heard sounds and said, "there is someone there" . The murderer kills someone hearing him, and others, who were sleeping, not even true witnesses. But then, he bypasses a bona fide eyewitness staring at him with eyes wide open! It doesn't make any sense. Having killed four, you don't leave the fifth, in fact, the only true witness.

Then, he allegedly returns at 9:20 am - to retrieve his sheath, I'd imagine. Why doesn't he get it back? Knowing this sheath might be his undoing. There is no police around. There are no people around house. Why not come in and get the sheath? All he needed to do was to go via the same doors on the 3d floor, and back. Makes no sense, unless something or someone scared him. Then, what and whom? We don't hear about it. We hear nothing about the doings in the house between the killer departing and the police emerging. Everything is so quiet that the killer can't get his sheath.

I hope it gets known during the trial, but so far, question mark. Too many unanswered questions.

(Nothing changes if the target was on floor 2. He kills two people, then passes by a witness who saw him, and goes up to deal with two women, for having heard him, and a barely barking dog).

I"m with you on his returning to the scene with a primary purpose of locating and retrieving the sheath given it's potentially critical importance.

I think he didn't in fact retrieve it either because (1) he didn't know, as a matter of fact, exactly where it was and probably searched the area he parked and retraced his steps back towards the house or (2) he knew or believed it was inside the house (perhaps even that it was on/near M's bed) but in any event when he arrived he was, for reason(s) unknown, unwilling or unable to re-enter the house.

JMO