ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 61

[layer]

Do you know of any WiFi routers which actually do this? Record the phone # which showed the wireless network as an available network.

I do not, but I know next to nothing about the workings of modern mesh network hotspots. But I wouldn't think the phone number would be logged, more likely the IP or possibly the MAC address.

 

[SRWCF]

Here you go.

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

Well, dang, there it is. Thank you!

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

This is just my personal thought, but I think BK likely knew he'd left behind the sheath long before 9am the next morning. If he thought he better go back for it, I think he would have done so while still dark. Jmo. I think he came back to see if therre was activity.

Agree, part of the thrill to see the chaos he created, extend the event. I would have expected the 911 call to have been made by 9 the next morning.

 

[cujenn81]

The biggest questions I have about Kohberger are of the chicken and egg variety. Did he choose to devote his life to the field of criminology because he had a desire to kill? Was he hoping to learn how to beat the system and/or avoid being caught? Or did he choose to study criminology because the subject matter fascinated him? Did he become so obsessed with the need to know what drives people to kill and/or what it feels like to take a life that he decided to take matters into his own hands?

It reminds me of this book I once read called The Last Victim by Jason Moss. As a freshman in college, Moss came up with an unconventional idea for a course research project. The author was fascinated by the motivations of serial killers and dreamed of joining the FBI someday, so he devised a plan to lure notorious serial killers into communicating with him and even forged a full-blown relationship with several.

Before his initial communication with each serial killer, he meticulously researched what interested that killer the most and then cast himself in the role of disciple, admirer, businessman, surrogate, or potential victim. He thought the FBI would certainly be impressed if he convinced these infamous serial killers to buy into his false personas. In a few instances, he won the killer's trust and uncovered secrets. In the case of John Wayne Gacy, he experienced firsthand what it’s like to be stalked, seduced, manipulated, and trapped by a deranged murderer who’d taken the lives of more than thirty young boys.

Armed with recorded phone conversations and the perverted writings of multiple killers, Moss convinced his psychology professor to help him write a book about the experience. The killers he corresponded with include Elmer Wayne Henley, Richard Ramirez, Henry Lee Lucas, Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson, and John Wayne Gacy. He developed the strongest relationship with Gacy and even flew to Illinois to visit him in prison a few weeks before his scheduled execution date. It was during this visit when Moss finally realizes it was he who was being played. He was being controlled and manipulated by Gacy, not the other way around. Hence, the title of his book – The Last Victim.

Sadly, his research project had a deeply profound effect on his mental health. He struggled with depression for years before he ultimately killed himself in 2006 at the age of 31.

It reminds me of that Nietzsche quote – “Whoever battles monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster himself. And when you look long into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you.”


ETA: If this post sounds like it was copy and pasted from a book synopsis, I apologize. It's definitely not; I wrote this using my own words. I have a book blog (about guilty pleasure romance novels, not true crime), so my writing style when talking about a book is an occupational hobby hazard.

 

[ACG2x]

These are just my thoughts right now on the timeline that night:

—just by chance, Xana was at the front door getting her DoorDash at the same time BK was coming in through the back sliding glass door. He goes upstairs before X comes up to the living room. Neither knows the other is there.
—Xana sits down in the living room or kitchen to eat her food and watch some TikTok. The lights are only half on.
—Xana had to have heard the same noises DM heard coming from upstairs. Maybe she also heard a man’s voice. This causes X to get up and go to her bedroom where she tells Ethan “someone is here”.
—by then BK had started down the stairs and saw Xana go toward her bedroom and followed her.
—BK and Ethan begin fighting and wrestling. That’s when the “thud” happened. Ethan is stabbed and collapses.
—Xana watches the fight and stabbing and begins crying and whimpering. BK turns his attention to her saying “I’m here to help”. He then stabs her to death.
—BK leaves.

This is just how I see it right now. I’m sure it will change.


edit: typo

Pretty similar to my thoughts on how it happened. I'm interested to understand how long after Xana picked up DD did the attacks start. Pictures through windows at the house early in the investigation showed Xana's food in a labeled bag sitting on the kitchen counter. Of course, she could've been eating it anywhere and LE placed the bag there after processing the scene and taking pictures.

My thought is she had her food and was laying in bed eating and browsing TikTok. BK enters the house and goes upstairs and quickly murders Kaylee & Maddie. Perhaps Xana heard him go up the stairs but since she was in a back bedroom thought it was either Kaylee or Maddie.

Xana obviously hears the noises and Murphy barking and rouses Ethan and tells him "someone is here". Ethan gets halfway out of their bedroom area and near the bathroom where he's ultimately found and engages BK. BK is in a rage and Ethan is taken by surprise.

The thud is indeed Ethan collapsing. Xana begins freaking out and crying which DM hears. Xana knows something is very wrong and Ethan is hurt so she begins crying. BK tells her he's there to help then attacks her. Since Xana is fully awake, she has defensive wounds as her father previously reported.

I also believe that BK's plan/target were either Maddie and/or Kaylee but since Ethan came out and Xana was awake, he felt he has to kill them too. Once they are dead or stop moving, BK realizes he has to get out of the house ASAP because he's now killed at least two more people than he intended. He probably knows there are other roommates if he stalked the place.

I believe that he was in a trance-like state where maybe he saw DM come out of her room, but it didn't connect it was another person until after he was gone. His mind is only in survival mode which means exit the house ASAP. So he walks right by DM without even recognizing she's there or she's a person who can identify him.

MOO of course as always.

 

[lji]

This is just my personal thought, but I think BK likely knew he'd left behind the sheath long before 9am the next morning. If he thought he better go back for it, I think he would have done so while still dark. Jmo. I think he came back to see if therre was activity.

See this is what puts my my theory of him coming back at 9:12am for the sheath in doubt. Like you said, he definitely would’ve realised long before that the sheath wasn’t on him, probably when he got back into his car after the murders at 4:20am and realised he had nowhere to put the knife. So why wait 5 hours before coming back for it, why not go straight back in?

Like we’ve said though, we’re looking at this from a rational view of thinking. In the adrenaline and pure mayhem of what he’d just done he probably was not thinking straight at all and he just wanted out of there ASAP

 

[Justice101]

I think the

Then he has to explain who this person he aided, he has to make a lot of other lies or explanations. It won’t match his computer record, phone record, survaliance etc, it won’t make sense. If he just gave very simple explanation like I just met him in campus or a flea market, he ask me to deliver the knife to this house and wearing all black and a black mask at 4am. I just did I did not ask why he asked me to do this. Do you think jury gonna but it?

Since BK was not aware that he was a suspect, he probably kept his computer and phone. To LE credit, they did not "interview" him after the killings before he was arrested.

BK being in the criminal justice/investigative field, he would have known to destroy all forms of communication if he even had an inkling as to they LE was onto him.

This was a BRILLIANT STRATEGY by LE. Sometimes they have to interview everyone before they have a suspect. Not in this case. BRAVO!

 

[Sundog]

I believe the first time you log into a business's wi-fi network, an option pops up that says something like "Remember this Network." I believe you can choose YES or ONE TIME ONLY option. Most of us likely don't remember choosing YES when we do it. I always choose ONE TIME ONLY.

I never get that option on my cell phone. That's why it surprised me the first time this happened.

 

[schooling]

If a camera 50 ft away picks up sound that far even through the wall wouldnt it be constantly picking up every sound that is going on in the house the camera is actually on….like in every room? That would mean that every sound in atleast 50 ft in every direction from the camera would all be recording at the same time on top of each other. Doesn’t that mean that the sounds recorder could be three different sounds from three different locations?

Not sure where I saw it was a Ring camera. But if that’s true there is no sound triggering for recordings. Meaning motion would have had to set it off. And at the default setting it would have been 30 seconds before turning off again, cooling down, and waiting for more motion before recording.

If it wasn’t a Ring camera and did have motion triggering (I believe Arlo does) then the thud was likely the culprit. But again, it would have stopped recording after a period of time and unless there was another sound that met its decibel threshold it would have not started recording again.

 

[SRWCF]

Unfortunately, Hollywood would like you to believe that everybody screams when they are in danger, when the opposite is more likely.

Those that were sleeping may have woken but would have needed some time to comprehend what was happening and it was very likely too late for them to react.

Anyone who was awake would have been more focused on trying to survive and screaming doesn't come as naturally under those circumstances as you may think.

Exactly this.

Also, people have asked then why didn't the victims scream from the pain of being stabbed (I hate typing that)? I've always told people to think of what happens when you do something painful to yourself like stub your toe really bad. The first thing you likely do is to not shout or scream out in pain, but you have a large intake of breath. I think this is likely what took place with these victims, if they even had the time to breathe before dying. :-(

As for Xana, the affidavit makes it sound like she was awake for this horror. And, yet, she did not scream. DM heard a "whimper" which likely was coming from Xana - she must have been terrified.

Also, early on, Xana's father revealed that she had defensive wounds, so she was awake and fought back. One Slain Idaho Student Fought Back Against Attacker, Dad Says

 

[Elley Mae]

"He seemed really nervous," a police source who was involved in the process told PEOPLE. "He was narrating to himself everything that was happening. At one point, he was saying something to himself like 'I'm fine, this is okay.' Like he was reassuring himself that this whole thing wasn't awful."

Kohberger was read his Miranda rights during his arrest, and cannot be questioned about the case without an attorney present. He didn't speak directly to officers about the case, but the police source said that he did make an offhand comment about it. "He did say, 'It's really sad what happened to them,' but he didn't say anything more," the source said. "He's smarter than that."

Idaho Murders Timeline: Everything to Know About the Case

Here's everything to know about the Idaho murders case revolving suspect Bryan Kohberger, including a timeline of the tragedy

people.com

 

[rsd1200]

I found John Wayne Gacy's brain under study:

Scientists look at infamous serial killer's brain in search for explanation

The shrunken, sliced brain of serial killer John Wayne Gacy has been preserved in a Ziploc bag since his execution 15 years ago.

www.wmbfnews.com

It was preserved and was no longer its initial dimensions, but the brain morphology was still there. However, at the time of its dissection, science didn't have the powerful techniques it has now for looking deep into the neurons, so it wasn't very helpful.

Scientists use the next best thing (S.P.E.C.T. analysis, which is a kind of MRI). And there, we do find differences between serial killers (usually in prison for life or on death row, they consent to these studies) and the rest of us.

Ted Bundy's brain was given over for study, but I can't find anything scholarly published about it (or in reputable newspapers, for that matter). If anyone finds anything, please post. What they did find, of course, was that MRI and other brain scans showed an abnormal brain (it's probably the physiology as much as the anatomy and things like S.P.E.C.T. can help figure that out - we didn't have S.P.E.C.T. back then, but there were CAT-Scans and maybe MRI's (not sure).

Here's an article on what the scanning data seem to show:

Scientists look at infamous serial killer's brain in search for explanation

The shrunken, sliced brain of serial killer John Wayne Gacy has been preserved in a Ziploc bag since his execution 15 years ago.

www.wmbfnews.com

The actual academic literature on this topic just gets bigger every year. Right pre-frontal cortex, hippocampus and the amygdala all seem to operate differently in the convicted killers (and for the last two structures, the differences are very small on gross examination, but show up when the brain is in action).

IF he never drank before the murders, and I'm inclined to believe that he did not, then he put on a very good show for them all. Oh, the fun he probably had in staging his alcohol-induced transition. Typical ego, drama king, look at me, I am the center of attention. At least from my experience... Though I don't have experience with a murderer or serial killer, for which I'm grateful.

 

[SRWCF]

I never get that option on my cell phone. That's why it surprised me the first time this happened.

Hmmm. You might want to check your settings - your phone may be set up to automatically remember wi-fi's you've connected to.

 

[Justice101]

See this is what puts my my theory of him coming back at 9:12am for the sheath in doubt. Like you said, he definitely would’ve realised long before that the sheath wasn’t on him, probably when he got back into his car after the murders at 4:20am and realised he had nowhere to put the knife. So why wait 5 hours before coming back for it, why not go straight back in?

Like we’ve said though, we’re looking at this from a rational view of thinking. In the adrenaline and pure mayhem of what he’d just done he probably was not thinking straight at all and he just wanted out of there ASAP

Interesting.

But my thought is that instead... he only drove back to see the commotion of a swarm of LE at the crime scene. He was there to marvel at the huge national homicide case unfolding before him.. that HE was responsible. Was probably proud.

It was daylight and he would never have chanced breaking into the house again... he would have been seen or caught red handed.... especially with him fully expecting there would be a crowd of law enforcement and onlookers there.

 

[ArmChairDet]

yoDo you know of any WiFi routers which actually do this? Record the phone # which showed the wireless network as an available network.

Also, how far are the closest AT&T cell towers to the King Road residence? 1/4 mile? 1/2 mile? 1 mile?

Actually there is another angle/reason. Google and Apple both use wifi, even if not connected to a access point to do precise location. There is a database of wifi location (even your Comcast) that are know by location and name. Cell phone position can be triangulated by cell providers (decades old), however phone manufactures will use both gps and single strength of know wifi's to locate (smart phones age).

If you are walking in a home (no line of site for GPS satellites), you can see y movement. This is wifi location, and probably using your wifi and all the neighbors to provide location. It's very accurate.

 

[CSIDreamer]

The biggest questions I have about Kohberger are of the chicken and egg variety. Did he choose to devote his life to the field of criminology because he had a desire to kill? Was he hoping to learn how to beat the system and/or avoid being caught? Or did he choose to study criminology because the subject matter fascinated him? Did he become so obsessed with the need to know what drives people to kill and/or what it feels like to take a life that he decided to take matters into his own hands?

It reminds me of this book I once read called The Last Victim by Jason Moss. As a freshman in college, Moss came up with an unconventional idea for a course research project. The author was fascinated by the motivations of serial killers and dreamed of joining the FBI someday, so he devised a plan to lure notorious serial killers into communicating with him and even forged a full-blown relationship with several.

Before his initial communication with each serial killer, he meticulously researched what interested that killer the most and then cast himself in the role of disciple, admirer, businessman, surrogate, or potential victim. He thought the FBI would certainly be impressed if he convinced these infamous serial killers to buy into his false personas. In a few instances, he won the killer's trust and uncovered secrets. In the case of John Wayne Gacy, he experienced firsthand what it’s like to be stalked, seduced, manipulated, and trapped by a deranged murderer who’d taken the lives of more than thirty young boys.

Armed with recorded phone conversations and the perverted writings of multiple killers, Moss convinced his psychology professor to help him write a book about the experience. The killers he corresponded with include Elmer Wayne Henley, Richard Ramirez, Henry Lee Lucas, Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson, and John Wayne Gacy. He developed the strongest relationship with Gacy and even flew to Illinois to visit him in prison a few weeks before his scheduled execution date. It was during this visit when Moss finally realizes it was he who was being played. He was being controlled and manipulated by Gacy, not the other way around. Hence, the title of his book – The Last Victim.

Sadly, his research project had a deeply profound effect on his mental health. He struggled with depression for years before he ultimately killed himself in 2006 at the age of 31.

It reminds me of that Nietzsche quote – “Whoever battles monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster himself. And when you look long into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you.”

Man, that is sad.

 

[seemstome]

.

I think he wanted to go beyond just slitting their throats, though I feel he was not adequately prepared for the unplanned. otherwise, definitely an option.

With firearms, one is trained to shoot at center mass, because, in a self-preservation situation, that is the area you should fire toward (contains heart and lungs). Basic anatomy. My friend was in a knife fight when he was young (early 20s), but he didn't get any slashes on his face. All were on the torso for the most part. So bloodied, and with his shirt sliced right off of him, yet didn't know that HE had been cut until someone managed to intervene between the two. My point, they went for the most vulnerable parts, instinctively. Zero training, zero education past h.s. at the time.
-----




Some people never grow out of those terrible twos. Even at two, three, or four, they discover it works for them with some people. Others, it does not. Note he does not argue with the boss at the bar when he approaches him after BK calls the waitress a foul name. He simply never returns. They know.



I have even seen "some" women demean other women with this term, which is a term familiar to where I live, because they proudly have birthing hips, yet other women don't. Said along the lines of; I pushed my 9-pound baby out in four pushes and a deep breath, but so and so had to have X, Y, Z, drugs, and then a C-section yet her baby was only 5 1/2 pounds. Poor thing doesn't have birthing hips. Bless her heart (not said with any blessing of her heart at all). Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

What a weird thing to do, like a child, follow someone to the bathroom (like he did with that date). What a weird comment coming from a man (BK). I’m trying to imagine any man I know using this term and I cannot. Mother hatred. This and his other misogynistic verbiage at the brewery makes me think he was trying to test limits (like a child) or relating outside his head the same as he does in a weird fantasy world inside his head. As in responding to real life situations with some self scripted responses that didn’t quite match up.

 

[audvardi]

Exactly this.

Also, people have asked then why didn't the victims scream from the pain of being stabbed (I hate typing that)? I've always told people to think of what happens when you do something painful to yourself like stub your toe really bad. The first thing you likely do is to not shout or scream out in pain, but you have a large intake of breath. I think this is likely what took place with these victims, if they even had the time to breathe before dying. :-(

As for Xana, the affidavit makes it sound like she was awake for this horror. And, yet, she did not scream. DM heard a "whimper" which likely was coming from Xana - she must have been terrified.

Also, early on, Xana's father revealed that she had defensive wounds, so she was awake and fought back. One Slain Idaho Student Fought Back Against Attacker, Dad Says

For all we know, she might have screamed.

 

[rsd1200]

This is just my personal thought, but I think BK likely knew he'd left behind the sheath long before 9am the next morning. If he thought he better go back for it, I think he would have done so while still dark. Jmo. I think he came back to see if therre was activity.

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Pretty similar to my thoughts on how it happened. I'm interested to understand how long after Xana picked up DD did the attacks start. Pictures through windows at the house early in the investigation showed Xana's food in a labeled bag sitting on the kitchen counter. Of course, she could've been eating it anywhere and LE placed the bag there after processing the scene and taking pictures.

My thought is she had her food and was laying in bed eating and browsing TikTok. BK enters the house and goes upstairs and quickly murders Kaylee & Maddie. Perhaps Xana heard him go up the stairs but since she was in a back bedroom thought it was either Kaylee or Maddie.

Xana obviously hears the noises and Murphy barking and rouses Ethan and tells him "someone is here". Ethan gets halfway out of their bedroom area and near the bathroom where he's ultimately found and engages BK. BK is in a rage and Ethan is taken by surprise.

The thud is indeed Ethan collapsing. Xana begins freaking out and crying which DM hears. Xana knows something is very wrong and Ethan is hurt so she begins crying. BK tells her he's there to help then attacks her. Since Xana is fully awake, she has defensive wounds as her father previously reported.

I also believe that BK's plan/target were either Maddie and/or Kaylee but since Ethan came out and Xana was awake, he felt he has to kill them too. Once they are dead or stop moving, BK realizes he has to get out of the house ASAP because he's now killed at least two more people than he intended. He probably knows there are other roommates if he stalked the place.

I believe that he was in a trance-like state where maybe he saw DM come out of her room, but it didn't connect it was another person until after he was gone. His mind is only in survival mode which means exit the house ASAP. So he walks right by DM without even recognizing she's there or she's a person who can identify him.

MOO of course as always.

IIRC, Ethan was found in X's bed, so it seems very unlikely that he confronted BK and subsequently made the thudding sound when hitting the floor or wall. It seems likely that X encountered BK near her bedroom, since, IIRC, she was found laying on the floor near the door to her bedroom. I think it was likely her going to the floor that was responsible for the thudding sound, if the thud that was recorded actually even came from within the house.