ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 61

[maskedwoman]

Without diagnosing from a web forum, if he has competent defense team, and does not himself resist bringing mental health into, we can't say it won't be evoked. In Idaho you can't plead "not guilty by reason of insanity" but the jury can find "guilty but insane" which has implications for his punishment. And if he had a heroin abuse issue, and did not kick it himself, but kicked it in treatment he may well have been diagnosed with OUD, then he will have had a DSM listed mental "disorder."

I had to look up OUD and it was defined as "OUD is a chronic brain disease in which people continue to use opioids in spite of harms caused by their use." Maybe there is a better definition somewhere else, but I am struggling because that definition suggests that someone who keeps smoking despite the harms caused by the use of cigarettes has a brain disorder of NUD. I think of that as just plain old "denial". "It won't happen to me". I may have to tell my husband that he keeps smoking because he has NUD.

Please don't think I'm belittling addiction. I completely understand how serious and destructive it is. It's tragic. But I'm struggling how being unable to stop using something that, by it's nature is addictive, equates to a brain disorder. I don't think I'm smart enough for this discussion, as i just gave myself a headache writing that!

Opioid Use Disorder

Opioid use disorder is a chronic brain disease characterized by continuing opioid use despite harmful consequences. Learn about symptoms and treatment.

www.yalemedicine.org

 

[schooling]

See this is what puts my my theory of him coming back at 9:12am for the sheath in doubt. Like you said, he definitely would’ve realised long before that the sheath wasn’t on him, probably when he got back into his car after the murders at 4:20am and realised he had nowhere to put the knife. So why wait 5 hours before coming back for it, why not go straight back in?

Like we’ve said though, we’re looking at this from a rational view of thinking. In the adrenaline and pure mayhem of what he’d just done he probably was not thinking straight at all and he just wanted out of there ASAP

Assuming he knew D saw him

He logically assumed she had already called the police based on the initial commotion on the 3rd floor or the subsequent commotion on the 2nd floor.

If he thought that she hadn’t called yet he would have likely stayed and killed her.

Believing this explains leaving the sheath behind and his erratic speeding away from the scene cited in the affidavit.

I’m sure he was probably following the news as soon as he turned his cell phone back on and from his laptop. I bet the police will likely recover evidence of that.

After not seeing anything on the news and not being able to sleep he probably took a drive over to see what was going on.

The cognitive dissonance of the scene outside (or the lack thereof) probably broke his brain.

 

[CityKid]

To identify who’s close enough to connect to a WiFi, would you need to know the IP address? If so how would SG recognize it as BK’s? Does he have cell tower pings confused w/WiFi connections?

I think he does have them confused.

 

[ray9898]

What if he was the one who called in the noise complaint like your idea and the reason was to see how fast the cops responded? So he would know how much time he would have later when he actually did the crime?

The time frame of a LE response to a home invasion and a noise complaint won't be relatable.

 

[Omega Man]

My humble take on his visit to 1122 King Rd the following day is that there was no reason for him to go there other than to retrieve the sheath and it was likely the first thing he noticed the morning after.
Some people say that had he noticed it being missing he would surely go back to the crime scene earlier, but... we have to take into account that a) being high on adrenaline after what he did he most likely wouldn't notice his arm missing, let alone knife sheath, b) he was also likely completely exhausted, add to this that the attack took place at approx 4AM so after adrenaline high faded he simply had to take a nap at least (unless he was running on drugs), c) he was described as a nighly kind of person who often stays up into the early morning hours, so if his sleep cycle was abnormal like that, he would go to sleep late (or early in the morning depending how you look at it) and also he'd wake up late, d) as for going back there to just watch - everything that he did would be in the tv/internet news very very soon anyway and in high definition, and finally, barring potential DNA, fingerprints, H&F, in his mind, the sheath was the only piece of evidence that he very likely planned to dispose of together with the knife after the crime took place. So there was no need for him to meticulously sanitize it prior to the attack. Just MHO, from the top of my head.

 

[10ofRods]

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 59

This post from thread #59 allowed me to realize BK lived with hell in his head although BK also complained of additional medical conditions including migraines in those posts; he felt the visual snow was his entire problem, at that point in his life. Were these thoughts posted during the heroin years? Drugs and alcohol make the effects stronger or more frequent, I presume?

Sensitively Written by @gremlin444 on SUN, JAN 8 from the last thread

My 20 yo son has suffered from visual snow (the focus of that message board that the postings are from) and the resulting depersonalization for over 2 years now. It is hell. He has experienced many of the things in that are listed in what you can see in the video screenshot as a result of the visual snow--depression, SI, feeling a disconnect from emotions or wondering if his emotions are "real", sped up or slowed down perception of time, anxiety, poor self esteem, wondering if he's losing his mind. Visual snow has so much still unknown about it and the recommended treatments/meds are few and are just kinda guessed at by doctors. He's been to eye doctors, neuro ophthalmologists, psychiatrists, therapists, and had an MRI as well as neuropsych testing, blood work, etc. No medication, eyewear, or therapy has really worked much. At this point, he has grown so accustomed after 2 years of obsessing over it, that he has actually gotten used to it and doesn't register it as much. Luckily that has helped reduce the depersonalization and SI. He had to drop out of high school because it made him unable to function in that environment (despite being an honors student) and finally just took and passed his GEDs last week. In the early days, he tried coping by self medicating with marijuana and alcohol (which only made it worse). It has been a horrible, hard time for him and that was even with him living with us, telling us what was going on while it was going on, and having tons of medical/mental healthcare professionals involved. If this is BK, and he started developing afterimages at AGE NINE as one of those messages says, I can't imagine the damage Visual Snow caused to his mental health during his preteen and teen years. My son barely survived two plus years of it, much less over 10 years.

Thank you again, DeDee. I think this is the best description of the VSS I've seen. I had never even heard of it before this case, and it is so poorly understood. I hope your son continues to learn to cope.

 

[GRT]

From his perspective, he took 4 lives, he is aready a life winner, if he can charm the jury, found not guilty, or get away with death penalty, he feels he is the god. And I bet you 10 cents, free or not, there are females who are going to write love letters to him.

And, he may be more charming than we've been led to believe. Insider has this to say about him.

 

[ilovewings]

Long post incoming, but it’s late at night here and I’ve been racking my brain about a few points I just can’t wrap my head round and figured we could all drive ourselves crazy together!

I’m sure this has been discussed, but does anyone have any thoughts on why BK chose to drive only approximately 10 miles crossing State lines into a state that has the death penalty to commit his crime when that state he was in doesn’t have it? Seems like an extremely risky move.

Also, I can’t get my head around his stupidity/laziness/boldness/carelessness/I-can’t-decide-on-which-of-the-above regarding his phone usage in the lead up and on the day of the murders. IMO most people with basic understanding or interest in true crime I would think know that your phone is very easily tracked if it needs to be, and even turning it off and back on raises a whole other set of red flags in itself. Regardless of whether or not BK was a ‘good’ student or not, it has to be assumed he has more than a basic knowledge of how this stuff works given his area of studies. Even if he was a terrible student, I would think he would still know more than the average person regarding this, and IMO the average person knows enough to not do any of what he did! I know we all have this same question about everything in this case, but why, why, whyyyyyy??

People keep talking about how they believe he was so confident in his abilities that he never expected to be caught, but regardless of that, why would he not at least control the things he could control - not taking your phone to the scene of a major crime EVER would be one of those things I would think? Burner phone? No phone at all? Get into a habit of turning your phone off at bed time and back on at sunrise each morning as a future cover as to why it was off that night? Anything would’ve been better than what he did.

Also, I may be wrong with this, but if genetic forensic analysis was used on the knife sheath to link BK, is it not the case that doing so uses up that DNA sample? I could be wrong and I’m happy to be corrected, but I feel like I’ve read cold cases where they’ve been hesitant to go down the genetic testing route because they had limited DNA samples remaining and didn’t want to rush into it if a) technology would improve over the years allowing LE to use the DNA Sample in other ways and/or b) Le didn’t want to rush in and use up the sample if waiting another say 5 years could return better results and matches.

IF that is correct and the case, IMO LE has a significant amount of DNA evidence from the killer to give them the confidence to go straight into genetic testing while the case is still so hot.

The reason I bring the DNA into this post is because if BK did leave a scene with his DNA all over it, it means he couldn’t have thought his careful planning to not leave DNA was enough to get him by and allow him to bring his phone to the scene on multiple occasions.

So again… why? I’m going round in circles and nothing makes sense.

I believe murder is an emotional, rather than an intellectual exercise. Perhaps in his mind he had a plan, but when he was confronted with murdering, stabbing four human beings, his emotional state took over along with his rage causing him to be sloppy, perhaps panicking at some point, causing him to leave the knife sheath. I don't believe he considered what state has a death penalty and what state doesn't, when choosing to commit a crime. Criminals do all kinds of things that appear to be stupid, senseless, etc because they are arrogant, think they won't get caught, and again, they are caught up in the emotional experience of the kill. As far as the DNA goes, we don't know how much blood was on that snap- it could have been quite a bit, or not that much. We just don't know. I hope they have more DNA from other sources-- and of course, they will take DNA from him and hopefully there will be a match, because if there isn't, this case would be very weakened.

 

[ktm44]

Blood is very slippery and the knife gets covered in attacks such as this. The nature of a stabbing is the knife will come to a sudden halt, the hand will want to continue downward due to the now slippery handle compromising the grip.

There is a reason homicide detectives always want to see the hands of suspects as soon a possible after a knife attack. Suspects with hand injuries are common.

Under most circumstances, you are correct but the Ka-Bar knife mentioned and a number of other tactical type knives are designed to prevent slipping because of a guard that may are calling the hilt.

I would expect to see some hand bruising if someone wasn't completely familiar with how to use it correctly but we have members who have spoken about military training with them and even with incredible force, they hands never slipped below the guard.

I have one and have used it in ways that it was not intented, including chopping ice for livestock to water and while it's not a great idea, even with the handle covered in ice, my hand has never slipped. Some of poor decisions have left me with a bruise on my hand but nothing worse than that.

 

[rsd1200]

.

Yep. And I'm trying to figure out what "touch someone's wifi" means. My phone could show probably a hundred or so wifi addresses as I walk down a street, but that doesn't mean I'm trying to get close to a particular address, or that I even know how close I am to the location with that wifi address.

The only thing that comes to mind for me, would be if a person/company had an "open" wifi. No passcode is needed. Say someone could sit in my drive late at night and use my wifi if I didn't have a passcode set. I do, but just for example. That's the only way that I can see it, other than it is potentially meant, in the way your phone signals bounce off of the carrier towers.

 

[10ofRods]

It is so easy to stalk someone online, even for a regular person. You can learn their names just by listening how other people call them in public. Then you go to IG, search any name with U of Idaho tag or stuff like that, it shows the girls photo, you follow them and their friends. You have a sense of their schedule like how late they sleep by when they interact with other people in IG, such as liking a picture, make a comments, in other words, when they are awake. you can even like their pictures, the girl will send you a heart or thank you message in return, now you know when they are active. You go to LinkedIn to find their major, their high school. Or just google people finder and immediately their addresses, phone numbers, even political party if you registered before will show up. If their sisters, parents, cousins are active online, you even know about the victims' family, their home address, when they bought the house, how much they bought it. BK may entered the house before to know the room plan, he might, but he doesn't have to, as the room photos are usually online for students to see and rent.

Excellent post. I do think that BK used some method of tracking or stalking his victims, although I do not know if he was also casing other houses.

I've been thinking that he managed to lurk on the edges of their social life. I've thought this since before he was arrested. I had many theories, but my main one just before the arrest was that this would be an older student, I thought maybe a U of ID student, perhaps posing as a grad student or in and out of grad school.

The reason I say this is that I think BK somehow knew that K had moved out and perhaps even that she'd broken up with her boyfriend. If he watched closely enough, he could deduce this from the fact that before K left, JD had stopped coming over and their relationship patterns changed. Then 1.5 weeks after that, she leaves and takes some of her stuff home to Couer D'Alene.

If he knew that K had broken up with JD, that made the entire house a "better" target, because naturally, we all know that women are most likely to be killed during a break-up. I also believe he used various social media accounts on several platforms to improve rumors floating around about both JD and the fraternity house connection. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if BK had been hanging out around fraternity row, probably Sigma Chi.

I do wonder if that's where some of those 12 pings will lead.

Oh, and since his phone was mostly on during this whole time period, I assume by now they also have GPS from Google and I'll bet a whole box of donuts that BK needed Google maps to figure out how to get around the region, probably exploring to the south of Moscow a few weeks before the murders took place. He also used Google maps at home to study the region.

Eventually we should have both cell tower pings AND GPS on his phone.

 

[Charlot123]

I'm not at all convinced he was angry.

If we view him as the killer, anger, or extreme aggression.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

My humble take on his visit to 1122 King Rd the following day is that there was no reason for him to go there other than to retrieve the sheath and it was likely the first thing he noticed the morning after.
Some people say that had he noticed it being missing he would surely go back to the crime scene earlier, but... we have to take into account that a) being high on adrenaline after what he did he most likely wouldn't notice his arm missing, let alone knife sheath, b) he was also likely completely exhausted, add to this that the attack took place at approx 4AM so after adrenaline high faded he simply had to take a nap at least (unless he was running on drugs), c) he was described as a nighly kind of person who often stays up into the early morning hours, so if his sleep cycle was abnormal like that, he would go to sleep late (or early in the morning depending how you look at it) and also he'd wake up late, d) as for going back there to just watch - everything that he did would be in the tv/internet news very very soon anyway and in high definition, and finally, barring potential DNA, fingerprints, H&F, in his mind, the sheath was the only piece of evidence that he very likely planned to dispose of together with the knife after the crime took place. So there was no need for him to meticulously sanitize it prior to the attack. Just MHO, from the top of my head.

I expect he knew pretty quickly that he'd misplaced the sheath, but also pretty quickly decided that going back into the house was too risky. And, if he thought he might have lost it outside the house somewhere, it was too dark to immediately look for it. I think he prolly went back the next morning just to briefly glance around and see if the sheath was laying on the ground near where he'd parked his car - didn't see it, of course - and left again.

 

[schooling]

Yep. And I'm trying to figure out what "touch someone's wifi" means. My phone could show probably a hundred or so wifi addresses as I walk down a street, but that doesn't mean I'm trying to get close to a particular address, or that I even know how close I am to the location with that wifi address.

Small data packets are exchanged when you see all of those networks. How do you think they are sending their names to you?

This exchange is constantly happening in the background without you knowing it. Assuming that your WiFi is turned on.

Imagine being a Mom of 5 at a crowded sports arena. And you’re not sure if your kids are in attendance. So you call out their names one by one and listen for a response. Everyone else hears you and receives your message. But only your kids respond and come and join you.

Your phones WiFi will keep calling out names and listening until it makes a successful connection and joins a network. The other access points (the strangers in the stadium) may not know your phone but they still exchanged the information.

These tiny little data exchanges is what the police have reportedly captured. Which requires no successful connections. It’s not at all out of the question. Some pro WiFi systems capture this kind of data all of the time. It even includes other information like signal strength etc etc

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Under most circumstances, you are correct but the Ka-Bar knife mentioned and a number of other tactical type knives are designed to prevent slipping because of a guard that may are calling the hilt.

I would expect to see some hand bruising if someone wasn't completely familiar with how to use it correctly but we have members who have spoken about military training with them and even with incredible force, they hands never slipped below the guard.

I have one and have used it in ways that it was not intented, including chopping ice for livestock to water and while it's not a great idea, even with the handle covered in ice, my hand has never slipped. Some of poor decisions have left me with a bruise on my hand but nothing worse than that.

Good stuff.

 

[Angelcat13]

Powerful interview with SG.
I'm so glad to see this softening in him.
I think SG will have a role going forward helping very many people, he is raw and truthful.
Healing has commenced, I think. I hope. But it's still a very long road ahead.
a bit of a shock to learn that BK's phone actually was close enough to spark of their wifi.
Closer than I'd imagined..

SG reminds me in some ways of John Walsh - strong, focused personality, well-spoken, channels his grief into action. He’s like a dog with a bone going after justice for Kaylee - as well as for Maddie, Xana & Ethan. I agree with you that I can see him becoming a force for change that could help protect many people going forward.

I would hope that John Walsh might reach out to SG to provide him some support/advice. I also worry that SG is currently so driven to find justice that he may not be allowing himself to feel his grief. When I lost my oldest son, I was so busy trying to keep putting one foot in front of the other and taking care of my younger two kids. But in those “down times” - the quiet moments trying to find sleep, while driving, etc - the grief rushes in and is unbearable.

I pray for all of the families and, though SG may be the one most in the spotlight right now, they are all grieving and trying to find a way to continue without their precious child. And all will do so in their own way. I cried while watching 48 Hours the other night when they talked about “Ethan’s Smile” - the blend of white & yellow tulips to honor Ethan that was created by his friend & employer at the tulip farm where he worked. It is just one more example of how special these precious young people were and drives hime how much their families, friends and the world has lost.

 

[Sakura2Sophia4Lucia]

See this is what puts my my theory of him coming back at 9:12am for the sheath in doubt. Like you said, he definitely would’ve realised long before that the sheath wasn’t on him, probably when he got back into his car after the murders at 4:20am and realised he had nowhere to put the knife. So why wait 5 hours before coming back for it, why not go straight back in?

Like we’ve said though, we’re looking at this from a rational view of thinking. In the adrenaline and pure mayhem of what he’d just done he probably was not thinking straight at all and he just wanted out of there ASAP

Agree that he likely wasn't thinking rationally. Given the basic mistakes he made in this crime, he likely doesn't have critical thinking skills and the ability to think rationally. Believe he was in a frenzy and so immersed in the thrill of these murders that he wasn't thinking straight at all. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

.

The only thing that comes to mind for me, would be if a person/company had an "open" wifi. No passcode is needed. Say someone could sit in my drive late at night and use my wifi if I didn't have a passcode set. I do, but just for example. That's the only way that I can see it, other than it is potentially meant, in the way your phone signals bounce off of the carrier towers.

My phone constantly shows me available networks as I drive, but of course I can't join them without a password. It's still pinging and getting the name of all my neighbors' routers as I drive through my neighborhood. If I start streaming from cellular, it stops alerting me about all those routers but may still ping them, I don't know.

Yep. And I'm trying to figure out what "touch someone's wifi" means. My phone could show probably a hundred or so wifi addresses as I walk down a street, but that doesn't mean I'm trying to get close to a particular address, or that I even know how close I am to the location with that wifi address.

No, it only means that your phone was close enough, as you walked down the street, to find those routers. I have one neighbor whose router pops up when I'm a block away, the others I have to be closer. I can sort of tell a little bit about which house goes with which router name (very little) because some of the routers have clearly been named by an age group or a language group that gives those hints. One neighbor uses a version of his car license plate number and another makes a reference to her dog's name, etc. There's also someone who changes the name on their router frequently and I'm pretty sure I know who he is (IT guy I used to work with, signal is strongest when I walk by his house).

So your phone reaches out to everyone's router if you have that option selected (mine is an iPhone, it has "automatically attempt to connect to available networks" as an option. The sandwich shop nearby is unlocked, so I could in theory join it if I had their password from a one time purchase.

 

[Sakura2Sophia4Lucia]

SG reminds me in some ways of John Walsh - strong, focused personality, well-spoken, channels his grief into action. He’s like a dog with a bone going after justice for Kaylee - as well as for Maddie, Xana & Ethan. I agree with you that I can see him becoming a force for change that could help protect many people going forward.

I would hope that John Walsh might reach out to SG to provide him some support/advice. I also worry that SG is currently so driven to find justice that he may not be allowing himself to feel his grief. When I lost my oldest son, I was so busy trying to keep putting one foot in front of the other and taking care of my younger two kids. But in those “down times” - the quiet moments trying to find sleep, while driving, etc - the grief rushes in and is unbearable.

I pray for all of the families and, though SG may be the one most in the spotlight right now, they are all grieving and trying to find a way to continue without their precious child. And all will do so in their own way. I cried while watching 48 Hours the other night when they talked about “Ethan’s Smile” - the blend of white & yellow tulips to honor Ethan that was created by his friend & employer at the tulip farm where he worked. It is just one more example of how special these precious young people were and drives hime how much their families, friends and the world has lost.

So sorry for the loss of your oldest son.

 

[AlisRedHat]

MOO they found the car on video, led to the car, then then registration, led to parents and BK.
They found the DNA on the sheath. Not in CODIS, started a familial DNA search and many relatives of BK had contributed and it led to the parents and BK.

I figured they got dna from the trash and compared it to the dna on the sheath.