ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 62

[Omega Man]

Interesting article.

Not sure if it was mentioned here before or if Moscow-Pullman Daily News site is even allowed here. Similar MO (time, means of attack, female victims, both students) but way back in 1999. Being a criminology student, maybe BK heard about this though. After all the crime scene was approx 400m away from his Pullman apartment if I'm not mistaken. Then again, maybe it's just a coincidence.

 

[Followfacts]

at 1:33... eye brows just as the charging statement says that D saw

 

[jepop]

I agree. I work in healthcare and cringed when I read that story. She will be easily identifiable and is probably already terminated. I wonder if she sold her story and made enough $ that she didn’t care. Or, of course, it could be untrue.

Yes, and this is speculation obviously, but I also wonder if this person went to media hoping to negotiate $s or media found her by other and offered $s. Because wanting to remain anonymous indicates clearly that it wasn't the proverbial 15 minutes of fame that was sought.. A very stupid move by this receptionist and to be fair, I find it hard to imagine that he tabloids did not tempt her. Speculation, thinking aloud only.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

"...what, if anything preceded it?"

I keep going back to that. The very personal way in which the students were killed indicates to me (IMO) that it wasn't a first kill. I've never heard of a mass killer or a serial killer starting with something on that grand of a scale.

All MOO

I think this easily could have been BK's "first kill;" in fact, I fully expect it was just that. While LE in various locales near where BK resided should certainly look into open cases to see if he might be a possible perp, I think his alleged actions in the Moscow killings point to a guy who has not had previous personal experience in such an attack. The mistakes are too numerous, a hallmark of killers who've yet to - for lack of a better phrase - hone their skills. And I don't think he intended anything "on that grand of a scale." Instead, I think he was targeting one person for rape and/or murder, but everything (in terms of his plan) went sideways when he encountered people in the house he hadn't expected to be there and/or to be awake.

 

[cottonweaver]

'Psi Beta also encouraged me to become a Peer Supporter, which involved taking a Mental Health First Aid Training course. The Mental Health First Aid course trained students to effectively communicate with the distressed....'

bumping this statement from BK again

 

[SouthAussie]

Re topic of whether LE was onto BK as prime suspect early on in the investigation ( He's en route back to PA with his Dad on the 13th)

Had forgotten about this incident

'Dec. 20, 2022: The search for vehicle of interest​

Investigators speak to an owner of a Hyundai Elantra located in Eugene, Oregon. The vehicle was involved in a collision and was impounded. The owner is believed to not have any connection to Moscow, Idaho.'

From CBS's timeline

Idaho student murders: A timeline of the killings and investigation

Four University of Idaho students are discovered dead on Nov.13, 2022. Inside the investigation that led to an arrest in the case.

www.cbsnews.com

would they have even bothered to check out the Oregon car?

Ditto, this action below, IF true:
'

' Dec. 26-29, 2022: Reports of FBI involvement​

It is reported that an FBI team surveils Adam, the man whom two of the victims discussed the night they were murdered, for a few days.'

I think it is because the investigators can't be seen to have been focusing on one person only.
I think the defense would love to be able to suggest that the police had looked no further than their client, that those other people could have committed this crime, but how would the investigators know when they didn't even look.

I think part of a good prosecution is not only proving it was the charged killer, but also being able to exclude any other (forseeable) person.

imo

 

[Cool Cats]

I agree. I work in healthcare and cringed when I read that story. She will be easily identifiable and is probably already terminated. I wonder if she sold her story and made enough $ that she didn’t care. Or, of course, it could be untrue.

I totally agree the employee and clinic should be reported. They will pay a steep fine to the federal government.

Unfortunately though; an individual cannot seek monetary rewards for the HIPAA violation itself:

“Can a patient sue for a HIPAA violation? There is no private cause of action in HIPAA, so it is not possible for a patient to sue for a HIPAA violation. Even if HIPAA Rules have clearly been violated by a healthcare provider, and harm has been suffered as a direct result, it is not possible for patients to seek damages, at least not for the violation of HIPAA Rules.”

Can A Patient Sue for A HIPAA Violation? Updated for 2023

Healthcare providers may accidentally or deliberately violate HIPAA Rules, but can a patient sue for a HIPAA violation? While HIPAA does not have a private cause of action, it is possible for patients to take legal action against healthcare providers and obtain damages for violations of state laws.

www.hipaajournal.com

Not to say that there might be other legal recourse. IMO

Bryan Kohberger went to medical appointment 4 days after Idaho murders, staff remembered him as especially 'charming'

Those who interacted with Kohberger days after the Idaho killings say — for the most part — he was his normal, chatty self.

www.insider.com

Not sure she violated HIPAA Rules. Unknown medical practice, no names from office mentioned, no medical condition mentioned. HIPAA involves disclosing a person's MEDICAL INFORMATION and BK's medical information wasn't disclosed nor was the type of medical practice he went to. He simply went to a routine Dr. apt and was friendly.

"Kohberger attended a routine medical appointment near his apartment."

"A receptionist at the office, who asked Insider not to name her or the business because discussing the interaction might VIOLATE MEDICAL PRIVACY LAWS, told Insider that Kohberger was especially friendly at his appointment, prompting the staff to take notice."

Receptionist is guilty of blabbing to the media, not a trustworthy thing to do, but I doubt she is guilty of violating HIPAA.

 

[drmrgrl]

"...what, if anything preceded it?"

I keep going back to that. The very personal way in which the students were killed indicates to me (IMO) that it wasn't a first kill. I've never heard of a mass killer or a serial killer starting with something on that grand of a scale.

All MOO

IMO, I think a dispute or provocation preceded the killings. I wouldn’t be surprised if BK claims self defense

 

[drmrgrl]

One of the alleged posts (all deleted now) by the FB poster 'pappa Rodger' was allegedly a cryptic statement that implied the killer was unable to 'perform' or something like that implying impotency of the killer and then inviting thoughts. Just food for thought. would that possibly account for some of the rage if it were true IMO (really don't know, this is not an area a woman would have instinctive knowledge of and I have not read up much on this either).

IMO, you could always watch “Looking for Mr.Goodbar”. Beware the ending. It’s one of the scariest endings of a movie. Ever.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

IMO, I think a dispute or provocation preceded the killings. I wouldn’t be surprised if BK claims self defense

Self defense??!! I'd be positively slobber-knocked if he claims self defense.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

One of the alleged posts (all deleted now) by the FB poster 'pappa Rodger' was allegedly a cryptic statement that implied the killer was unable to 'perform' or something like that implying impotency of the killer and then inviting thoughts. Just food for thought. would that possibly account for some of the rage if it were true IMO (really don't know, this is not an area a woman would have instinctive knowledge of and I have not read up much on this either).

Illicit drug use can cause permanent impotency.

 

[Boxer]

It is indeed a puzzlement. After reading what I believe are all of his TAT posts, I see a bright young man who is facing a profound illness/disability and trying to find an answer.

He tries rigid discipline (army interests), special diets (more than one), and sees specialists and is prescribed a medicine that makes him "crazy," he says (he mentions that he has violent urges during that phase). He worries that he'll never have a normal life and can't understand why this illness is happening to him.

So, from my POV, he lost functioning. He couldn't really finish HS, he goes to adult ed/technical school. Gains some functioning at some point. Goes to an online university, is optimistic that he'll be part of society. He worries, in the TAT, that he will be denied a "normal life."

And yes, according to what we have available on the media thread here, he's also doing heroin.

Look up DeSales's admission rates and completion rates. This is not a selective program. That is not to say it's bad. I'm sure he learned a lot. But it's not the same as, say, getting a job as a uniformed police officer and *then* doing criminal justice. Most people in CJ programs have work experience of some kind, IME.

His whole trajectory is peculiar, bumpy and fraught with concerning circumstances. I believe his family desperately wanted to believe he was "okay" and could be launched. I believe they all knew he was "different" and were encouraging him on these various pathways. They must have been so hopeful when he went out to WSU.

I believe that he knew he had major social/psychological/neurological deficits, but finally gained hope that he'd succeed anyway. Something broke and this all went pear-shaped. I don't think there was a good way to predict it, either.

MOO Almost all individuals suffering from this kind of scenario do not choose hurting others. He, like other first degree murderers chooses his course of action. He chose to murder innocent people.

 

[Omega Man]

'Psi Beta also encouraged me to become a Peer Supporter, which involved taking a Mental Health First Aid Training course. The Mental Health First Aid course trained students to effectively communicate with the distressed....'

bumping this statement from BK again

I can't help but draw lines between the perp's "I'll help you" and e.g. something that Anders Breivik did to confuse the victims into false sense of security by wearing clothes very resembling an actual police uniform so that they thought help is coming. This level of malice is something more than just planning to kill. It's like planning to kill as much as possible.

 

[IDK]

Bryan Kohberger went to medical appointment 4 days after Idaho murders, staff remembered him as especially 'charming'

Those who interacted with Kohberger days after the Idaho killings say — for the most part — he was his normal, chatty self.

www.insider.com

Not sure she violated HIPAA Rules. Unknown medical practice, no names from office mentioned, no medical condition mentioned. HIPAA involves disclosing a person's MEDICAL INFORMATION and BK's medical information wasn't disclosed nor was the type of medical practice he went to. He simply went to a routine Dr. apt and was friendly.

A receptionist at the office, who asked Insider not to name her or the business because discussing the interaction might violate medical privacy laws, told Insider that Kohberger was especially friendly at his appointment, prompting the staff to take notice.

There have been multiple posts, and links, about this. A patient’s name is considered PHI— I don’t think most people realize it. Not to mention the receptionist’s statement to the press is highly unprofessional. IMO.

Interesting that she didn’t want to mention her own name to protect herself, but thought nothing of sharing his name!

This is in no way a defense of BK or anything he may have done, just basic rights as a patient.

 

[Boxer]

Also would be interesting to find out if he lived at home while he studied at Northampton and when he later studied at DeSales. ( Both are commutable distances)

ETA- I don't mean DeSales 2020-22 because we already heard he was online for that Masters. ( I meant 2016(?) to 2020 because I was wondering if, prior to WSU, if he'd had little experience of being on campus, mixing in person with students before becoming a TA! )

Agree. Looks like no experience living with others. Making loud noises at night, inconsiderate of the disruption he was causing other students in the grad housing.
Then professionally, grading harshly and making comments that anger students as a TA.
So not doing well as a TA.
A professor had an intervention, where students could address him directly with their complaints - have to think the professor first tried talking to him, found him resistant and set up a situation where students could talk directly to him.
His TA position has to have been in jeopardy at that point.

 

[Cool Cats]

There have been multiple posts, and links, about this. A patient’s name is considered PHI— I don’t think most people realize it. Not to mention the receptionist’s statement to the press is highly unprofessional. IMO.

Even suspected quadruple murderers have some basic privacy rights.

My name is called all the time in front of waiting rooms full of people, par for the course. No HIPAA violation because my medical condition is not revealed to this room full of strangers.

Inmate's names are mentioned all the time in Court Motions when a jail asks the court if they can take them to the dentist or any number of medical places near the jail. It is public knowledge and doesn't disclose their medical condition just because their name is mentioned. No HIPAA violations from disclosing their names and that they are going to a dentist, hospital, Dr apt., lab, etc...A HIPAA violation discloses personal medical information. BK's personal medical information wasn't disclosed.

If the receptionist said BK went for an injury to his shoulder that would violate HIPAA, that would be his personal medical information.

The receptionist is a blabber mouth talking to the media, making her untrustworthy. But saying she violated HIPAA is a stretch.

 

[Boxer]

IMO, I think a dispute or provocation preceded the killings. I wouldn’t be surprised if BK claims self defense

young women dispute a man with a knife in her bedroom? So it’s self defense?

 

[IDK]

Inmate's names are mentioned all the time in Court Motions when a jail asks the court if they can take them to the dentist or any number of medical places. It is public knowledge and doesn't disclose their medical condition just because their name is mentioned. No HIPAA violations.

Right. I hear what you’re saying and agree it’s confusing! The two situations are not the same though? IMO. BK was not a prisoner when he went to the clinic that day. It was prior to his arrest, he was still a private citizen. I think I’m just going to have to agree to disagree here. No disrespect intended!

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I can't help but draw lines between the perp's "I'll help you" and e.g. something that Anders Breivik did to confuse the victims into false sense of security by wearing clothes very resembling an actual police uniform so that they thought help is coming. This level of malice is something more than just planning to kill. It's like planning to kill as much as possible.

I think it's a solid possibility that what DM says she thinks she heard someone say (the "help you" line, for example) isn't precisely what was actually said. IIRC, the affidavit stated that DM said she heard someone say "something to the effect of" (insert DM quoted remarks). So, even the affidavit is making clear that DM isn't claiming that she flat-out heard remarks that could be precisely quoted. To me, that suggests there is no certainty - on DM's part - on exactly what she heard, raising the distinct possibility that something else entirely different from "I'll help you" and/or "there's someone here" was said.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Illicit drug use can cause permanent impotency.

And, sometimes, temporary potency.