ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 63

[Boxer]

Love the mother’s quote that kids are mean. What BS, most kids are not mean, and if yours is being mean, do something to change that. Bullying can create monsters, we see it time and time again, and imo, there is still a lot of work left to do to eliminate it in schools.

When girls have a boy that won’t let one of them alone, their only power is in the friends. IMO Admins do not, or cannot help.
These girls

 

[agilbe]

Thank you. This triggered me to go back and look at the actual TMZ video of the first traffic stop. I paused right away (approx. 00:16 into the video). The first time I looked at the video all I saw was that door handle the whole time. But when the cop first approached the car, there is a view of his hands which do look like potentially bad cuts on hand and wrist. Interesting that during the 2nd traffic stop, BK keeps his left hand between his legs and his right hand is positioned out of view of the body cam.

I remember some discussions on a previous thread on whether cuts would still be visible after this long of a time. I would say the wrist looks like a very bad cut along the bone. What are people's thoughts on the wrist cut and the cut on top of the left hand (shown at 00:16)?
View attachment 395114

Video of Bryan Kohberger's Indiana Traffic Stop Where Cops Let Him Go

Bryan Kohberger was stopped by Indiana cops back in mid-December in that white Hyundai Elantra, but they let him go -- and we have video of the encounter.

www.tmz.com

Never really noticed it, but his right hand looks kind of swollen especially the knuckle of his middle finger. The metacarpal, I believe. Been too long since I took A&P. JMO

 

[jepop]

^This.

They circled him early and then used the DNA inside the home to confirm his "alleged" involvement.

I completely get the original poster's point, though. There's a lot of reasonable doubt that can be displayed on a trial. I believe there's much more that we don't yet know, thankfully.

Agree there will be areas where reasonable doubt will ofcourse try to be raised by the defense. I just don't think that the officer who may have touched/handled BK's application to collaborate with, IIRC, WA LE in August would reasonably be suspected to have touched evidence collecting gloves and bags used to collect the sheath evidence at the scene of the crime in ID. And in any event, the prosecution will no doubt in my opinion, be very careful with chain of evidence handling, all of which will be available to the defense.

 

[Diogenetic]

Agree with you there's been plenty of stories but have never noticed a greater emphasis on incels per se or gender-based violence. And I don't think these narratives have ever been settled.

Just think of all the perps & all the motives which were at the forefront every week over the last 9 weeks.
Here's a few which - imo - got a lot of attention in the media
- crime of passion type motive & perp ( every guy from that GrubTruck video or who knew KG)
- grudge killing ( frat/student grudge or rejected suitor or rejected stalker)
- every guy from the Corner Club or who lived nearby including the two neighbours who were ' creepy'
- out of state serial killer who is skilled at evading LE & wants to rub LE's nose in it
- deranged hunters who skin animals or ex military men with blood lust
- since the arrest... versions of a super criminal motivated to commit the perfect crime & used his studies to do that
- and then since the PCA.....
- then since the Tapatalk posts.....

Yes but that is not the random sample of murder or femicides though. that is the sample of those in the news, including some of the above examples being disproven incorrect stories about killings in the news.

"In the news," by its nature, is man bites dog. It means the above sample is, must be, to be noteworthy -- unrepresentative. In this case, unrepresentative of the actual modes, types, circumstances of the vast majority of murder and murderers.

This is a media driven phenomena and it is false. It is unrepresentative, and in fact a good amount of it has proven false (Idaho killer skinned animals, etc) or unsupported, such as claim idaho killer was hunter (directly tied to the slander of one of the ex boyfriends) .

there is some interesting work in social science that shows that not only are there differentials in how much violent crime there is across countries, there large differences in amount of misperception of how likely it is that you are going to be a victim of violent crime. The US has one of the highest incorrect over estimates of risk of being a crime victim in the developed western democracies. https://www.visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/SPI-2022-web-2.pdf And it is directly tied to amount of news one watches, so being "informed", if by media, is actually being disinformed.

In fact the degree of misperception of risk of being a victim is now used in tables and studies on general well being of a society. Interestingly in the US the gap between actual crime rate and perception of crime rate as been increasing for 30 or more years. On 50 and 25 year trends, murder, including femicide is not going up, our incorrect perception of its real long term rate is increasing

What Matters More, Perceived or Real Crime? - Social Indicators Research

Crime consistently penetrates public and political debate, where crime, either perceived or real, shapes one’s sense of security, safety and wellbeing. This matters, as the perceived versus real dilemma influences policy decisions. But what matters most? Here the evidence is mixed with often...

link.springer.com

The Dynamics of Crime Risk Perceptions

Abstract. We study how residents form beliefs about the prevalence of crime in their neighborhood. We document the process of learning about local crime fo

academic.oup.com

https://www.jstor.org/stable/24721459

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Getting ready to watch a trial (unless the 4th defendant takes a plea, which I doubt that he will) where there was zero DNA found at the scene. So far, one took a plea for 30 years, one took a plea for LWOP, and one was convicted at trial; LWOP. I'm guessing #4 will be as well. The two with pleas had to agree to testify against the other two family members at trial. These folks had no law enforcement education background, murdered eight people, and it took nearly 2 1/2 years to make arrests.

I say that to say this, if there was another individual involved, they'd not necessarily have to leave DNA behind. I don't see how a 2nd person would aid BK's defense. He can still very well be convicted of murdering four people and sentenced to either death or LWOP, as could a 2nd person, if only for their participation, in for example, driving the car.

IF, and I'm not saying there is but IF, there is a 2nd person, do you think BK would let them get off the hook? Especially if the person is someone who he feels is not equal or superior to him. Someone he manipulated. I don't think BK is afraid at all. I feel he may be anxious as to what lies ahead, but he is in the spotlight and probably will be for years to come. All eyes are on the once chubby kid who was told to go away. He might go to prison, but his case will live on.




Unfortunately, a film/book deal may already be in the works. Like the Rhoden/Gilley murders, if they do turn this into a major book and movie deal, I do hope they keep the focus, firmly on the four students, with only glimpses of BK and his motivation(s), and not give him the publicity that I feel he would like to have.

Publishers gear up to bid $25m for rights to Idaho murders story

Major book publishers and Hollywood producers are already gearing up to bid tens of millions of dollars to secure exclusive rights to the Idaho college student murders case, DailyMail.com can reveal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Thank you for that insight. Fully agree. It would genuinely enrage his megalomaniac oozing extreme hubris mind. From your keystrokes to the universe, let’s hope the producers use some sense of decency and propriety for the victims and family while filming such a piece. JMOO

 

[scapa]

Any guesses as to why she contacted the FBI?

Perhaps the FBI has been asking for people who knew him in PA to talk with them?

That'd be my guess.

At least she seems to have contacted the FBI before her mum contacted the Daily Mail.

 

[agilbe]

I think I'm being really argumentative here, lol! I'm sorry!

To be honest, the whole receptionist talking to the media about BK clearly got under my skin! The guy is a horrible person and I hope he gets the maximum penalty for his crimes, but I do believe passionately in the law, also for this dude, so I'm obviously "triggered' knowing that a low level receptionist would violate his privacy like she did. She should know better!

I get it. For me it's I don't want anything derailing justice for those four, who should be starting their internship and going to class.

 

[jepop]

What is the over/under on HIPAA and birthing hips making it to the next thread?

Hmm, haven't been involved in those, so not guessing the odds. 10 to 1 that razoooorrr get resuscitated based on my experience in that field...

 

[Which_pancake]

If BK had such a major injury to his hand that it was still visible a month later in body cam footage, receptionist HIPAA and her boss surely would have noticed at his medical appointment. IMO, he must have had no notable, visible injuries.

 

[ktm44]

Oh, I so agree! It’s outrageous that he should have such detail about all witnesses. He can have info regarding their statements via discovery. He should get nothing more. Am I misunderstanding? It’s crazy.

I believe it's pretty standard but the information goes to his defence team, not the accused and the prosecution will expect the same for any witnesses the defence team may call.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I'd suggest that killing was his sex. Imho

Yes. I wrote that recently. He banks every second in a freeze frame mode and stores it in that twisted hidden part of his long-term memory vault. He must always be superior in that sense. The only way to effect his total dominance was to take their very lives in the process. JMOO

 

[Joyful Simpleton]

What is the over/under on HIPAA and birthing hips making it to the next thread?

Murphy is that you?

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

LE wants to see everyone's hands on a traffic stops. I saw nothing unusual about either of them.

Yes. In fact most persons pulled over by LE should try to keep their “hands” visible and in plain view at all times unless instructed by law enforcement to do otherwise. If they need your license and it’s in your pocket or purse, let them know where it is and that you are going to reach into your **** and obtain it. No sudden movements. That’s a tough job they perform day in and out. I do whatever is necessary to mitigate their burden if I’m ever pulled over. JMOO

 

[ktm44]

Thank you for that insight. Fully agree. It would genuinely enrage his megalomaniac oozing extreme hubris mind. From your keystrokes to the universe, let’s hope the producers use some sense of decency and propriety for the victims and family while filming such a piece. JMOO

I really hope they leave it alone long enough to allow the families to heal and the trial to reach a conclusion.

 

[10ofRods]

Not sure how one can assume he scouted and planned, knew the layout of the house and where his intended victims were sleeping - but didn't know that Ethan sleeping over was a regular thing? At the very least he should know that the red Jeep parked right by the front door doesn't belong to the girls.

It's pretty easy to play differently scenarios in one's head (if that's what you mean by "assume" something). I have a whole lot of competing, mutually incompatible theories about this case, which is normal and, I believe, the best way for me to proceed in trying to understand this case.

Do you have a link for the fact that Ethan was sleeping over often? How do you know it was a regular thing? I must have missed that.

I also do not think the red Jeep was there that night, MOO. It arrived the next day, IMO. But it's possible. I don't think we know that for sure, either, but in studying photos, my tentative conclusion is that it is driven over the next morning and I do believe that's in MSM somewhere (from when they were towing the cars), but I can't find the link, so MOO.

SPECULATION is a good way of finding answers, IMO.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I believe it's pretty standard but the information goes to his defence team, not the accused and the prosecution will expect the same for any witnesses the defence team may call.

…and if any is withheld, especially in such a high profile case, will be hell to pay. They will be super-transparent and above board with all shared info between the defense and the state prosecutors team. JMOO

 

[housewife]

When my daughter was 12, she had boys who paid her compliments like that where she found it weird, and a couple did come off as somewhat awkward. We talked about how to kindly but firmly turn down this sort of attention

I'm really glad you had that discussion with your daughter, on how to be direct when she is communicating "no".
I really glad those boys respected her wishes back then.

I wonder if any parent had a discussion with the boys back then, on how to behave when they feel rejected. We need to teach boys how to handle their emotions and not lash out at the person who happened to tell them "no" that day.
We need to tell boys that respecting boundaries and consent are important and not debatable. Girls should learn how to say "no", and boys should learn how to accept it.

 

[CocoChanel]

ADMIN NOTE:
Please MOVE ON from (in other words DO NOT RESPOND to):

- posts about HIPAA regarding the info disclosed in MSM from a medical professional.

- posts about child-bearing hips/hips-to-waist ratio/how wide ANYONE’s hips are (especially mine).

THANK YOU for your attention to this 95% serious note.

 

[rsd1200]

There are about 15 million high school students in the US in an average year. Let's say half are boys: 7.5 million. Let's say 10% of them were bullied like that by the popular pretty girls. That's 750,000 bullied high school boys. Stats say there are about 25-50 serial killers in the US at any given time. That would mean, even if we had 25-50 new serial killers every year (which clearly we do not), 749,950 bullied boys do not go on to become killers. It's not the bullying. Bullying is awful, but it is not "the cause" or "the reason" people go on to kill.

Apologies in advance for this long post.

I mentioned I'd been bullied a bit in school, just enough to where I began to dread class and would ditch school. In my youth, I didn't understand them. Wished they'd like me. In adulthood, I now have pity for them and am glad they didn't like me. Their lives turned out as ones I'd not want for my own. A few died young from over-indulgence in drugs, unprotected relations (STD), or violence (by their own hand, or by others).
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While I do not see it as a reason to excuse BK's taking the lives of others, AT ALL, it could be "his" reason to do so. Could it also be the reason BK came back after school break, as his friend described; as different, more of a bully himself? He did ultimately become a sort of bully, after school break that year. He'd made a change. He was slimmed down and was taking boxing lessons. He lost that same friend because he made moves on his friend's current girlfriend. High school stuff maybe, but had he already begun to depersonalize others' feelings? The bullied becomes the bully.

Either way, he's now a grown man, and he knows that there is counseling, and psychiatric care available to him, most certainly, if only because he has a family with ties to that community. He made a choice not to seek out help to deter his desire to commit violence, be it in-born nature, and/or learned behaviours.
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Interesting reads (especially if you have a child who is being bullied, or you see bullying characteristics appearing in your child).

A worried parent reached out to me, the school counselor, about her 14-year-old son, Adam. “After years of getting bullied, this year has been a gift,” Shauna said. “He’s made a bunch of new friends and turned everything around.” But then, Shauna told me, another mother called her. Adam had been mistreating her son, Nathan. In PE, Adam would make fun of the way Nathan ran. In social studies, Adam would roll his eyes whenever Nathan proposed an idea. He’d post altered photos of Nathan on social media, replacing his nose with images of penises and nipples. Then he’d tag him to ensure he saw all the mean comments.

Michele Borba, author of UnSelfie: Why Empathetic Kids Succeed in Our All-About-Me World, agrees that we can’t afford to overlook a child who resorts to bullying. “It’s learned behavior and can be unlearned,” she explains. “A big mistake is thinking it’s a phase. It’s not, and each time it’s repeated, it starts to wreak havoc with a child’s moral compass—he depersonalizes the other child and his empathy levels go down.”

They also won’t become hardened to the consequences of their actions. As Faris notes, kids who bully “learn techniques to rationalize pathological behavior, and that will not serve them well in the adult world.” But the greatest reason aggressors should stop, he points out, is the damage they’re doing to others.

When A Bullied Kid Becomes a Bully

Why would a kid who has been the target of teen bullying target another kid for similar abuse? Expert advice for parents who learn their child is the bully.

yourteenmag.com

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RECOGNISING THE DANGER OF RETALIATION
In response to their pain and anger, the victims often retaliate with similar bullying tactics, either against the original bully or against a weaker target. As the abuse worsens, they may become desensitised to how serious it really is and the effect it can have on others.

Bullying Victims May Become Bullies Themselves

A recent study shows that young people who experience cyber bullying could retaliate and become bullies themselves.

adelphipsych.sg

I did not become a bully, but I learned to stand my ground. This typically confuses the daylights out of them.

 

[GRT]

Just some thoughts
IMO ,

BK will be the longest resident of the Moscow Jail he now sits in. The june pelim will be waived right at the start and BK will plead not guilty and trial will intially be set for early 2024. After all delays,motions etc he will be found guilty by early 2025 and sentenced mid 2025 and sent to prison. Then the death penalty appeal process will begin lasting +7 years.

BK is living a somewhat similar lifestyle in jail as he was when free. He is living alone, with no social life or friends.More then likely spending most of his days now working or "studying" for his trial. Other then not being able to stalk woman and his private internet activities life is probably pretty much the same. Bascially he is getting his criminial justice phd behind bars instead of as WSU. He is also well aware of the media attention which I am sure is fueling his desire to go to trial and drag this out as long as possible .For the first time in his life he is getting attention. Sadly I would imagine he is already getting mail from female and probably male too) Groupies that want to be in a relationship with him. I would not be surprised if he is reported to be in a relastionship by the time trial starts.


IMO
Sometimes prosecutors over-try their case making the jusy more confused and more willing to find doubt.
Prosecutors should bring only a small amount of powerful evidence showing guilt instead of a mountain of evidence for the defense to dispute. Keep it simple 2+2=4. The best way to get justice in this case is to treat it like any other murder case.Treat it like what it is 1 guy who broke into a house and killed 4 strangers with a knife.Turning this case into the next OJ is not the right path.The more evidence admitted the longer he sits comfy in Moscow. The more chances for appeal and the more potential reasonable doubt. This trial and case is BK's new PHD challenge,his new degree, his new goal. This guy has been in school 23 years of his 28yr life. A long drawn out trial is heaven for a person like this. The quicker you can get him in prison The better.

IMO
Prosecutions should not seek the death penalty but rather life in prison no parole. This takes him off death row in his own private cell and places him in general population with atleast 1 cellmate.Also if they don't turn this case and BK into a BTK like media sensation there will be no protective custody status for BK. Personally I would rather drop him into a den of wild animals then his own private death row hotel room. With his lack of street smarts and awkward social skills it would not take long for the aggressor to become the victim..Justice is served in many ways.

Yes, he's likely getting mail, but he's in a county jail right now, so it's unlikely he's working toward getting his PhD. He probably is working on his case, however, in the sense that he may be taking notes for his attorney, etc.

I'm not opposed to the death penalty, but it takes so long to carry it out that I'm not sure it's worth seeking. I don't want to see BK or anyone dropped into a "den of wild animals," and I think we have to work to keep our prisons from becoming those dens. It's never okay for inmates to injure other inmates--that's not part of their sentence after all.

Justice will not be served in this case. It never is, because the innocent victims cannot be returned to their lives and their families. The best we can do as a society is to keep our citizens as safe as we can now by keeping dangerous criminals from living amongst us.