ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 66

[Auntie Cipation]

Waste of money, IMO, except for the socialization. If it isn't part of the doctoral program, it's a lot of money to pay just for unneeded units.

IMO.

Maybe he thought he needed extra lab time? (That seems to me to be what you are implying). Mostly, students don't want to pay for units they don't have to have. There's no evidence he got a sublease.

It's not hard to do, it's just expensive and unneeded. I don't see him or his family as frivolous. I do see him moving into student housing as soon as there was an opening, but I will be very surprised if he paid tuition or took units last summer.

Couldn't he have been (actually or ostensibly) doing preparatory work on his thesis in the month or two before classes started?

I assume that Married Student Housing (however and whyever he ended up there) has people who live there year round, especially if they have spouses employed and kids in school/activities etc. So they might be fine with a tenant coming in at any point during the year including early/mid summer. I mean, what if a married student had a spouse starting a job etc and they needed to get settled?

Tuition shouldn't IMO be due until the academic year begins, as others have said. But physical occupancy of an apartment, I don't see why not.

MOO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

no- but his father who is 67 probably does go to sleep- maybe even early- leaving BK in a mid-west hotel room doing what? watching cable for 5 hrs? he can't vacuum or use the garbage disposal.

Man, I sure wonder if any evidence was discarded along their route in motel toilets or dumpsters...

 

[schooling]

just remember BK doesn't sleep much so he has more time even when he is driving 12 hrs/day IMO

IL got more wrong than he got right.

But in true cult like behavior when he gets something right it's held as evidence of him being BK, and when he gets something wrong....it's dismissed as "he's a GENIUS! he's trying to throw people off his tracks".

I mean....what else says cultish more than - even when he's wrong...he's right? And even when it's likely impossible for him to post...he inevitably finds a way.

 

[Zella]

Couldn't he have been (actually or ostensibly) doing preparatory work on his thesis in the month or two before classes started?

PhD students do a year or two of coursework before they even get into the nitty gritty of a dissertation (and often have to pass oral and/or written exams before they advance to that stage in the program). I find it highly unlikely he was already working on a dissertation before he even began coursework. MOO

 

[Strong1]

But how does he know K is now driving the range rover that she bought the day before? If he's been stalking her for awhile, he connects her to her old car not the range rover.

I think he was after Maddie. Ran into her at her job and became fixated on her. Saw her name on the receipt or name tag. Didn't know her last name.

I wonder what a google search of "Maddie,Moscow Idaho " before the murders pulled up. Would that have pulled up Maddie's instagram or facebook? Maddie isn't a common name and neither is Xana or Kaylee. That's the problem I have with all these unique names. So easy to find somebody without their last names.

It seems like you can blend in more with a traditional name like Kim, Lisa, Laura, Mary. If you have a traditional name, somebody needs to take that extra step of finding your last name in order to stalk you.

Regarding your first point about Kaylee's new car. Do we know if she posted anything about it on her social media accounts? If so and he was following her social accounts, he would have known about the car. MOO

 

[Palinsmom]

Neighbors indicate he came home late at night. What was he doing? Did he have a side hustle, night classes?

Perhaps volunteer job title: ‘peeping Tom’ LOL
Just speculation on my part

 

[10ofRods]

I find this very interesting as well. Made me think back to college which was a very long time again.

MOO-

During my undergrad in my micro or genetics lab (one of the two, most likely genetics)..we did do finger prick and oral swab general test on ourselves.. to learn how to take the sample and apply properly to the slides and to practice on the microscope in identifying certain cellular structure… cellular/genetic markers /looked to see if any of us had a bacterial or viral infection etc.. mainly really basic stuff. To practice/learn more.. learn really how to actually properly use the microscope and properly read samples. Not just the pre-made sample/stain slides with perfect samples on the them.

In a physics lab (I think it was physics but honestly cannot remember… let’s just say another lab).. we gave one another lie detector tests. Learned how to operate the machines, how they worked and how to administer the tests.

My point is… these tests were done in house in a college student setting. - our results did not get uploaded to any major database..And this was year two college level courses. Not masters or PHD program.

I can easily see how in a phd or masters level graduate program in criminology there would be classes on genetic / genealogical/ dna identification of victims and perpetrators. I’d be shocked if there wasn’t such a class in the curriculum. This is something most with criminal justice degrees would need to be well educated in due to the fact it is used by LE / lawyers in crimes across the country. More and more everyday.

Who’s to say Desales or WSU didn’t have such a class where as part of the genetic/criminology class students participated in an ancestral dna sample project. In order to further their understanding of the tests and how they can use these tests to catch criminals or in identifying suspects or even victims. In real life they would not themselves be administering the tests but they would need to know in depth how they work and how they are done in order to maximize success rates in the use of genetics/DNA in the field. Which is why I would think it’s possible BK took the ancestry DNA test himself in such a class for his PHD. (MOO)… If I had to guess where they would receive the most in-depth education on this in a university setting… it would be by Partnering with biogenetics students/professor at the university and have a lab attached to this genetic profiling course im hypothesizing about… this professor would go over the scientific education end of everything and as part of the class he may suggest to give them their own ancestral dna tests… allowing each student to review their results and learn first hand how those results were obtained. Fully explain the break down of dna samples/identification markers they look for.. which samples are best for their line of work… etc.

All could have been done in house in the university.

No national database to connect to.

To me…. This would explain why BK was excited about learning about his ancestry and excited to tell the first person he saw (the neighbor) all about it because it was one more thing he was now fully educated in and could flaunt his intelligence in. BK seems to really like to learn as much as he can about criminology and this was probably a good day for him.

We know very little about BK… but from my own opinion/observation.. Ive read and watched many interviews with others who interacted with him and knew him and many of them say… he had very little emotion in interactions with others except when he was displaying/showing off his intelligence..or upset. he seemed to have more emotions in his tone and expressions/confidence when he was discussing things he was very knowledgeable in, Knowing the other person was not as well educated in that certain topic. Which to me helps explain the random convo with the neighbor about his ancestry/dna news.

I mean I know it’s a stretch…. But I’m still trying to figure out why I was a sophomore in college reviewing my own blood / saliva under an ancient microscope and why I was learning how to give lie detector tests in physics labs and how to give those tests and operate the testing machine… I am assuming it was my university and professors wanting us to have a thorough broad knowledge of the courses I was taking.

Which is why…. Maybe my thought on…criminology PHD’s having to take a genetic profiling class with a possible lab to where they learned how the tests are done and got to do theirs as a perk/add on lesson…. In house school project dna test …… maybe its not that big of a stretch?!!..

I mean I could be way off and just wasted anyone who actually read this long posts time….

But anyone who did… specifically those who are graduate / PHD criminology students… Have you ever had to take a genetic profiling course to help you further understand the tests being used to your professional advantage once you graduate?

any other college students or graduates ever do in house genetic / blood tests on yourselves?

Again.

All MOO - sorry it’s so wordy.

Ive just read many posts tonight’s on the new the neighbor genetic test discussion and all of a sudden people are wondering if the LE statement on the arrest coming from a familial DNA sample is accurate…. Etc. confusion in general now if BK himself took a national database DNA test on his ancestry.

Personally I am trusting of LE in such a high profile case. I feel like it would be unwise to state that they made the match on a relative in the database and not him if he was actually in there.. So im choosing to believe either he took the test in a non-national database scenario , possibly in a class assignment…. Or the company he took his test with is smaller and didn’t link to the larger corporation his aunts was found on initially. Or…. He’s just a lunatic making strange small talk with his neighbor to feel him out or add to his mystery.

Again, Cannot stress this enough. All - MOO

Bravo! More long posts from you, please. Yes, some of us went through lab work (we even had to learn phlebotomy - taking blood from someone else! Yikes! I did not like but I did it). And yes, we worked with each others' genes/biodata.

Such good points. I just wanted to say that I was pretty surprised at how DeSale's criminal justice track had virtually nothing on genes or DNA. They don't have, to my knowledge, an anthropology department and no biology course in genes (which would be "genes of living things") past the sophomore level. SO, BK would have been very excited WSU's state-of-the-art genetic equipment or something close. Of course he'd be excited to talk about it.

Confusion has been here from the beginning, as LE has never said exactly what they did with BK's DNA match, beyond saying they got samples from the trash and Dad was a match. Did they mention a national database? Nope. Nancy Grace said it was "probable." What does that mean?? No mention of GedMatch. Or Ancestry or 23.

He could well have sent his sample to 23 (my choice) or Ancestry and gotten some interesting, even life-challenging results. Especially if his background in biology/genetics wasn't strong, it could have seemed extremely heady and important to him. As it does to many people.

Who then wander around talking about genes and ancestry.

 

[r3d-ros3]

PhD students do a year or two of coursework before they even get into the nitty gritty of a dissertation (and often have to pass oral and/or written exams before they advance to that stage in the program). I find it highly unlikely he was already working on a dissertation before he even began coursework. MOO

Agree! This is a very important factor in the "perfect criminal" or "research oriented" perception of BK, as well. He was just starting a new program and was certainly 2 or 3 years out from beginning his dissertation.

 

[EBW321]

But how does he know K is now driving the range rover that she bought the day before? If he's been stalking her for awhile, he connects her to her old car not the range rover.

I think he was after Maddie. Ran into her at her job and became fixated on her. Saw her name on the receipt or name tag. Didn't know her last name.

I wonder what a google search of "Maddie,Moscow Idaho " before the murders pulled up. Would that have pulled up Maddie's instagram or facebook? Maddie isn't a common name and neither is Xana or Kaylee. That's the problem I have with all these unique names. So easy to find somebody without their last names.

It seems like you can blend in more with a traditional name like Kim, Lisa, Laura, Mary. If you have a traditional name, somebody needs to take that extra step of finding your last name in order to stalk you.

MOO- I actually agree with you completely. I believe and have for some time that Maddie was the initial target, that he met her at the Greek restaurant. I reviewed their menu and they had several vegan options. I have also googled Mad Greek restaurant and read the google reviews… Maddie, Kaylee, Jake, Jack, Bethany all left Google reviews on the restaurant and many of those included their last names. All he needed to do was google mad Greek and look at google reviews to see her friends leaving her friendly comments. Friends who left their reviews with their last names… friends who did not have private instagram accounts. Very very easy to find her on instagram without knowing her last name.

Google Mad Greek.. Look at the most recent restaurant reviews (last 6 months -8 months) there aren’t that many… It will shock you How easy it would have been to learn everything about these girls simply by her innocently serving him one day.

Again… MOO

 

[10ofRods]

no- but his father who is 67 probably does go to sleep- maybe even early- leaving BK in a mid-west hotel room doing what? watching cable for 5 hrs? he can't vacuum or use the garbage disposal.

Agreed. And it's possible his father drove part of the way. When I drive, my kids are on their cell phones, obviously. 34 posts/reviews/texts/comments in a day would be nothing for them.

But yeah, Dad talks about how many hours and hours they've been driving since they left. Once they hit the hotel room, Dad is probably out like a light. And no garbage disposal.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

Regarding your first point about Kaylee's new car. Do we know if she posted anything about it on her social media accounts? If so and he was following her social accounts, he would have known about the car. MOO

I didn't see anything at all about the new car on her social media posts. And she just got that like the day before.

To me, it's looking more like Maddie was straight up, the target here. He went to the 3rd floor first, Kaylee wasn't supposed to be there, he was probably caught off guard by her being there. He probably hears or sees Xana on the 2nd floor and goes to take her out as well as E but the presence of a male in the house plus the dog barking and the loud thud caused him to focus only on getting away and not go after DM. For all he knew, there was another male, wide awake behind that cracked door.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

IF it is the case that he submitted his own DNA to GEDMatch, I will be amazed. I won't bet even one lunch that he did, though.

I think he had submitted to either 23andme or Ancestry (I will bet lunch money that it was 23) it might result in some reporters misunderstanding and thinking he'd submitted to an open source site.

It does raise questions. Not legal ones, other kinds of questions.

If it is true that he submitted to either 23 or A, that's amazing. And gives me so much more insight into his inner world.

23 and me offer discounts more often than Ancestory.
But I'd like to know if his dad's DNA was submitted under his dad's name, yet he had control of the account. I have connections on various genealogy sites that are proxies for their older parents who don't understand the technology.

 

[schooling]

I didn't see anything at all about the new car on her social media posts. And she just got that like the day before.

To me, it's looking more like Maddie was straight up, the target here. He went to the 3rd floor first, Kaylee wasn't supposed to be there, he was probably caught off guard by her being there. He probably hears or sees Xana on the 2nd floor and goes to take her out as well as E but the presence of a male in the house plus the dog barking and the loud thud caused him to focus only on getting away and not go after DM. For all he knew, there was another male, wide awake behind that cracked door.

Or...

By all reports Kaylee 'just moved out' of the house. Which is in contradiction to everyone's assumption that she had left the year prior. I'm trying to find a date but I've seen others implying it was only a matter of a week or two and a lot of her stuff was still there.

Bryan could have very well have been targeting her. Following one of them on Instagram under a fake account. Thought she had left for good. And when he saw that Kaylee was in town for the night he decided to set his plan into action.

 

[Dre]

It was unbelievably bold. Ninja like. moo.

I don't think so.
I think he had fantasized about being ninja-like..
Spending numerous hours getting it down perfectly in his head,
when in reality it was all too swift, messy and unpredictable.
Moo

 

[10ofRods]

But how does he know K is now driving the range rover that she bought the day before? If he's been stalking her for awhile, he connects her to her old car not the range rover.

I think he was after Maddie. Ran into her at her job and became fixated on her. Saw her name on the receipt or name tag. Didn't know her last name.

I wonder what a google search of "Maddie,Moscow Idaho " before the murders pulled up. Would that have pulled up Maddie's instagram or facebook? Maddie isn't a common name and neither is Xana or Kaylee. That's the problem I have with all these unique names. So easy to find somebody without their last names.

It seems like you can blend in more with a traditional name like Kim, Lisa, Laura, Mary. If you have a traditional name, somebody needs to take that extra step of finding your last name in order to stalk you.

I thought of Reverse Image Search. Well before the murders, there were TikToks of Kaylee and Maddie, as well as their Insta content. In Week 1 (Days 2-4) of this tragedy, those pictures were still up (with various captions) and they came up if a person typed in University of Idaho girls (within the top 50 results, along with other girls, but K and M did have a few popular posts, with comments, etc. that pushed them to the top of U of ID girl search results, IMO). And that makes sense as they were both marketing students.

At any rate, the way young men search for women (IME) is usually by image and not by name. Which turns up their name, pretty quick. IOW, all those other people who had tagged or used Kaylee and Maddie's and Xana's images would have led the search results, image-wise and led right to their Instagrams. Quickly. It kind of seems to be the whole point.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

MOO- I actually agree with you completely. I believe and have for some time that Maddie was the initial target, that he met her at the Greek restaurant. I reviewed their menu and they had several vegan options. I have also googled Mad Greek restaurant and read the google reviews… Maddie, Kaylee, Jake, Jack, Bethany all left Google reviews on the restaurant and many of those included their last names. All he needed to do was google mad Greek and look at google reviews to see her friends leaving her friendly comments. Friends who left their reviews with their last names… friends who did not have private instagram accounts. Very very easy to find her on instagram without knowing her last name.

Google Mad Greek.. Look at the most recent restaurant reviews (last 6 months -8 months) there aren’t that many… It will shock you How easy it would have been to learn everything about these girls simply by her innocently serving him one day.

Again… MOO

One thing taught in the military is called Op Sec. Operational Security. The bad guys can piece together what seems on the surface, inconsequential information in order to build a bigger picture which is paydirt for somebody with nefarious plans.

People need to exercise something like Operational Security in their own lives. Your life, finances, safety depends on it.

 

[Sundog]

I was wondering if he took a Summer 2022 class. I dont even know if that's possible. JMO

Summer classes would usually just be for undergraduate students and perhaps a few for master's degree students, but not usually at the doctoral level - especially if he hasn't started his program yet.

I think BK just arrived in Pullman in late June or July to get settled in to his apartment, get his ID card, get his university email set up, parking pass, buy supplies, check out the library, the university bookstore, buy the books assigned to his fall seminars, and overall just find his way around campus and the community. If his new TA departmental office had already been assigned, he could stop by the department and have the staff give him a key and help him get settled in there, also.

Very normal to arrive early for an incoming graduate student, especially if they have moved across the country to start a doctoral program. There would be a lot to do before the start of the semester.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Anyone else logging into their 23andme account, feverishly (and nervously) searching for BK, listed as your distant relative?

I didn't think about it until you mentioned it and then, yes, I did.
No Kohbergers.

 

[Dre]

Neighbors indicate he came home late at night. What was he doing? Did he have a side hustle, night classes?

I would assume he was making his rounds just watching.. whether that be at restaurants, bars, food trucks, creepy shadows of different neighborhoods, likely leaving the king road (or another) residence his last stop for the night.

Genuinely his own level of night stalker.

moo

 

[10ofRods]

Yes, but you can't set aside the fact that the posts are time-stamped.

Which is why we're asking, since you went through them, how far apart are they time-stamped? You agree the posts exist, right? Is it impossible for someone to have written 34 short-ish posts on their phone in one day? Within how many hours? Spaced out or clustered?