ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 67

[jepop]

Don't you just love it when a media source takes another media source's story, summarizes it, and passes it off as their own after embellishing words, etc.?!

I so don't!

 

[NCWatcher]

I think many people have lost sight of the concept of "reasonable doubt" and think "circumstantial evidence" means weak evidence that needs nitpicking. I've seen it in these threads.

Probably true. But some people are confused about what constitutes circumstantial evidence too. Somehow in certain quarters DNA and other biological evidence like fingerprints are not seen as circumstantial evidence. And for every person who wants 100% certainty/absolutely no doubt for conviction, there are folks in the general population who decide regardless of the state's case, someone must be guilty because "he was arrested & the defense didn't prove him innocent." We can only hope that neither group serves on juries! Or that jury instructions change perspectives.
JMO

 

[SRWCF]

Not even OJ tried to say his other glove was in the dryer. Pretty sure that LE would check the dryer. And the washer. They had a warrant. But BK would be real dumb to put a rubber glove in the dryer.

Besides, an apartment complex like his likely has a central laundromat in the basement or on the first floor, and not a washer/dryer unit in each apartment.

 

[isabella88]

Besides, an apartment complex like his likely has a central laundromat in the basement or on the first floor, and not a washer/dryer unit in each apartment.

Indeed. I doubt the school springs for a washer and dryer in every unit of student housing.

 

[Mad Hettie]

Agree. And although wearing gloves while taking out the trash might be a sign of being super clean, more likely it was just BK avoiding leaving prints or DNA on the bag. Putting the trash in the neighbors’ bin was clearly a sneaky and deceptive move by BK.

I don’t know. My neighbor and I have a standing agreement that we can use each other’s bins if ours are full. Seeing as how he just came back and it was holiday time, their own bin might’ve been full so he used the neighbor’s.

 

[maskedwoman]

How it happened is the number of innocent people locked away for decades. This is a consequence, unfortunately.

MOO.

I agree that innocent people have been convicted of crimes. Many have been convinced to take bad plea bargains by overworked and possibly bad public defenders. "Better to get 5 years than lose and get 30". Both situations are horrible and should not happen. However, tv shows like CSI are largely responsible for people expecting ridiculous amounts of forensic evidence to solve every crime. I've read many articles about the "CSI Effect".

I can remember Law and Order - the original. On that show, things were often complicated. The endings weren't always neat and tidy. Sometimes the bad guys got away. Sometimes the good guys had a pyrrhic victory. Often times they ended with a plea bargain to get something.

These days, the bad guys can leave behind a tiny fragment of paper that the good guys will then realize was only sold for ten minutes in upper New York State. And, miraculously, even though the company has been out of business for 10 years, they still have all their business records and know exactly which 5 people bought the magic paper. And, wouldn't you know it, that tiny slip of paper breaks the case wide open. Or they find some rare pollen on the victim's body. Something only found in 5 square blocks on Baltimore. And we've become conditioned to expect that kind of forensic miracle to always be there to show that there is NO chance anyone else in the whole world could have done it.

Our criminal justice system was not designed to convince jurors beyond a shadow of any doubt. It's always possible, no matter how remote, that someone else did. That, as has been suggested here, someone stole/"borrowed" BK's car, killed four people, and brought his car back to frame him. For that to be true, it would mean the police haver overlooked the real killer entirely. That he/she really left no evidence of themselves behind at all. And that, instead of telling the police that someone "borrowed" his car, BK has instead opted to clean it repeatedly, removing any evidence of this, be arrested and transported, and sit silently knowing he's going to be charged with murder.

Can I guarantee that there is no way, no matter how slight, it didn't happen that way? Of course not. But how like is it that, after hearing all of the evidence, 12 reasonable people will believe it happened that way? I don't think it's very likely at all. Not beyond a reasonable doubt. MOO

 

[jepop]

Correct, numerous times starting at approximately 4:17. IMHO it is a bit ambiguous as to whether the distortion of the audio is true for the dog barking or just the voices/whimpering sounds and loud thud.

And it is believed that this is the camera/microphone that picked it up.

View attachment 396324

Source

Thanks for posting the photo!
I just spent some time on street view yesterday, checking out where the cameras were and also where this North west of the house camera was (blurred out understandably). It's an odd position to be picking up audio from XK's room but that might explain why distorted. I'm sure LE checked out for other dogs in the area...

 

[Which_pancake]

This brings up an interesting question for me. What if they did check it (swab for DNA etc) and found incriminating evidence. Would there be a risk of it being tossed out if the plumbing was not specified in the search warrant?

The first item listed on page 7 of the search warrant is

"Blood, or other bodily fluid or human tissue or skin cells, or items with blood or other bodily fluid or human tissue or skin cells on the items."

The way I understand it, they can collect these items from anywhere they find them - plumbing, pillows, whatever. MOO

 

[MrB327]

Never trust a Brian (unless, of course, it’s Brian Entin.)

As a Brian, I resent that comment!

 

[AbbyG]

It has been suggested. It just doesn't make sense to me. Is he going to pull out the murder weapon now and say "Look! My knife doesn't match that sheath!"

Reminds me of the bank robber, when charged with robbing the bank of $10,000, saying "It was only $5,000, your honor!"

I was thinking in his mind - it could just be something to send LE on the wrong path, looking for the wrong weapon, and maybe he stole that sheath -- I think he seems like someone who thought he was doing many clever things but in reality did many stupid things, so thinking from his POV - a la, if the glove don't fit. I don't know. But there is so much strong evidence, an abundance of circumstantial evidence and a profile history that matches up and sets the stage for this grotesque violence committed by a person with admitted derealization and lack of feeling (empathy) - I cannot understand how anyone would think he is innocent but it is interesting to me that one person on here does. Is it because he doesn't "look" like our idea of a depraved criminal?

 

[Dotta]

Seeing as how he just came back and it was holiday time, their own bin might’ve been full so he used the neighbor’s.

That seems - IMO - streching faith in goodwill of people TOO FAR

 

[tpen]

IMO, correct me If I am wrong, but hair or fur with a root is a good thing because mitochondrial dna can be extracted from such. If there is no root, only nuclear dna can be extracted, correct?

No, actual hair, no cells only contains proteins, no DNA. Both nuclear DNA and mitochondrial DNA are found in cells like the hair follicle cells (incidentally, the final layers of skin cells, the ones you shed, have neither nucleus nor organelles). Mitochondrial DNA is not usually sequenced for identification because you inherit mitochondrial DNA from only your mother - you can track maternity/some degree of relationship with it but not exact identity. Your grandmother also has the same (except for any incidental mutations) mitochondrial DNA. Nuclear DNA is what’s used for identification as it is unique for everyone - even identical twins can be differentiated using epigenetics. I have a degree in animal sciences/biology and pursuing a DVM.

 

[layer]

Much of this language was new to me when this case first started and I thought circumstantial evidence was weakest. But after researching and learning, I now know the prosecution will feel much more confident going to court with a circumstantial case than they would with direct evidence because they can help the jury see the logic of it. If it’s direct evidence, it’s something that can be refuted or rebutted.

Both direct and circumstantial evidence can be refuted and rebutted. Historically, direct evidence like having an eyewitness point at the accused and say "He did it!" was considered the gold standard. However, more recently (last 30 years) eyewitness testimony has been shown to be notoriously unreliable, while circumstantial evidence like DNA has become much more influential on jurors, thanks largely to the popularity of forensic TV shows.

 

[SRWCF]

Police also found shoes with diamond-pattern soles — matching footprints found at the murder scene — as well as “data compilations” of information about the victims.

Search warrants for accused Idaho killer Bryan Kohberger’s home unsealed

Washington State University Police recovered a possibly blood-stained mattress cover, human hairs, a glove and a computer from University of Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger’s apartment, accord…

nypost.com

Ok, no offense to you, but I can't stand the NYP! I read the search warrant and it's news to me that LE found the shoes in BCK's apartment. Maybe I need to read it, again?

And the NYP saying LE found the shoes that match the FOOTPRINTS in the victims' house? Footprints??? Ugh. SHOEprints, not footprints. Big difference.

Lol, I can't even with the NYP! OK, rant over.

 

[Elley Mae]

That seems IMO streching faith in goodwill of people TOO FAR

If I saw someone put trash in my can idycall the police or that person’s significant other cause they are up to no good in my mind.

Jmo

 

[NyxNY]

Honestly, why would one keep receipts for items they bought to commit a crime? I would think you'd go to some random store far away, pay cash, burn the receipt, and get rid of the item afterwards. Surely he wasn't going to return the item, or turn the receipt in to his accountant. There are thrift stores everywhere, too, maybe less likely to have cameras or whatnot. I've seen multiple cases where there was Walmart footage of the perp buying bleach or whatever right before he crime. Stupid.

There is so much of his "doings" that make absolutely no sense--especially as a criminology major. Mind boggling.

 

[SRWCF]

I don’t know. My neighbor and I have a standing agreement that we can use each other’s bins if ours are full. Seeing as how he just came back and it was holiday time, their own bin might’ve been full so he used the neighbor’s.

My thought was that he took his bloody clothes with him from WA to PA and was disposing of them (while wearing gloves) in his parents' neighbor's trash can.

I really hope that is the case because LE was watching him and retrieved from the trash can whatever it was he was secretively throwing away at 4 in the morning.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

IMO. Something happened and only those four roommates knew of it or were involved. Again, it’s nothing that XEKM overtly did, it was how the occurrence or event was perceived or in this case MISPERCEIVED…

I think it's possible that BK wanted to commit a mass murder, encountered one or more of the victims and began to stalk her/them. For all we know, he may have stalked other people, either other groups of housemates or a family. Unless LE finds writings that explain his motives, all we have to go on is that he did the crime by home invasion and slaughtered 4 people. Had he wanted to kill only one of them, he probably would have stalked until he found an opportunity to get her alone. It could simply have been that they were young, good looking, popular and alive. It could simply have been that he wanted to know what killing felt like and in particular what it means to kill something beautiful, desirable. Why do big game hunters want to kill elephants or leopards or lions? Because it makes them feel powerful.

That's not to say that there wasn't personal interaction of some sort, e.g., taking an order in a restaurant or chatting while in line at a coffee shop. But given no evidence of actual physical or verbal contact, whatever was going on was going on in BK's mind.

 

[Mad Hettie]

This is a great article about the history of DNA in Idaho cases, as well as some clear explanations of some of the tests commonly used.

DNA evidence likely key in Idaho murder case. How does testing, use in court work?

DNA comparisons are often not indisputable, but they remain significant pieces of evidence in investigations and at trials.

www.seattletimes.com

 

[jepop]

This brings up an interesting question for me. What if they did check it (swab for DNA etc) and found incriminating evidence. Would there be a risk of it being tossed out if the plumbing was not specified in the search warrant?

The warrant included collecting skin, hair, blood, body fluid, etc and so forth. I think LE could check the plumbing to try and find anything like that. The warrant is extremely detailed and covers most possibilities like that IMO. Not so much can we or can't we look at plumbing, more so - search the premises anywhere to look for organic matter that might be tied to crime scene IMO

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/search%20warrant%20for%20bryan%20kohberger%20apartment/ddb059f6cc8e24c1/full.pdf