ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 71

[Nova]

I enjoy reading your posts maskedwoman.

You come up with an extremely good point, that if BK had a solid alibi and everyone just sat on it, then the real killer would still be out there endangering the public. It would be imperative to warn the public to be vigilant and keep their garages, doors and windows locked up tight. Get a good alarm system, etc....

Would they let him go? That might depend on his car. If he couldn't account for his car that night, then it would look like he may have given the killer his car and knife to go commit the murders for him. It could look like he had a partner.

But ultimately it would be up to the judge. The judge would decide if there was still enough probable cause to keep him under arrest, or if his alibi was enough to tank the probable cause, thus leading to his release.

In no way, shape or form would his lawyer NOT present BK's alibi to the court if he had one. If he had a solid alibi - including his car - he would be out of jail and the police would be asking the public for tips to catch the killer who is still at large.

2 Cents

As attorney/poster Cassady wrote above, alibi witness testimony is often ignored by judges and juries. And I will add that is especially true when the witness is a close family member. (Which is a problem for defendants. The only witness I have to my whereabouts at 4 a.m. any night is my husband. Who else would know?)

But I agree with you that BK's attorney would have revealed alibi evidence, if she had any, for purposes of requesting bail.

 

[iamshadow21]

Except certain details conflict with what police have stated. Respectfully, I will stick with the facts from law enforcement.

Yeah, I'll believe this news story when I see it, if more details come out in the prelim that line up with what's being printed. Until then, it's just media generating news from social media rumours, or creating it out of whole cloth because they're annoyed at the gag order giving them nothing to write about that's based on reality.

 

[Nova]

Yeah, I'll believe this news story when I see it, if more details come out in the prelim that line up with what's being printed. Until then, it's just media generating news from social media rumours, or creating it out of whole cloth because they're annoyed at the gag order giving them nothing to write about that's based on reality.

I don't fault anyone who wants to wait for official confirmation. (And thank you very much for recognizing my Nixon reference as a joke!)

I tend to credit last night's Newsnation item largely because it has been reported by so many sources we couldn't mention here. Maybe everyone is relying on the same two sources--I certainly don't know--but Ashley Banfield has held off on the report for over two months. To me, that makes it less likely she's just pulling gossip off social media.

 

[iamshadow21]

I don't fault anyone who wants to wait for official confirmation. (And thank you very much for recognizing my Nixon reference as a joke!)

I tend to credit last night's Newsnation item largely because it has been reported by so many sources we couldn't mention here. Maybe everyone is relying on the same two sources--I certainly don't know--but Ashley Banfield has held off on the report for over two months. To me, that makes it less likely she's just pulling gossip off social media.

You could be right, I could be right, neither of us might be right. *shrugs*

Until we hear more through official channels, I just don't see any way of verifying any of it. And I don't see us getting more real information we can hang our hat on until the prelim.

So, there's no point stressing about it. We've just got to get used to waiting, since the prelim isn't for what, five months?

Eh, he can sit there and stew and get used to using the bathroom without a door.

Meanwhile, I'm enjoying chatting here, but I'm reading other threads, too. I'm into Gannon, right now, early days. I'm a hundred threads into Delphi. Maybe by the time BK has his prelim, I'll be caught up to the point of Richard Allen's arrest.

 

[Nova]

You could be right, I could be right, neither of us might be right. *shrugs*

Until we hear more through official channels, I just don't see any way of verifying any of it. And I don't see us getting more real information we can hang our hat on until the prelim.

So, there's no point stressing about it. We've just got to get used to waiting, since the prelim isn't for what, five months?

Eh, he can sit there and stew and get used to using the bathroom without a door.

Meanwhile, I'm enjoying chatting here, but I'm reading other threads, too. I'm into Gannon, right now, early days. I'm a hundred threads into Delphi. Maybe by the time BK has his prelim, I'll be caught up to the point of Richard Allen's arrest.

I agree we won't know much of anything for sure until the preliminary hearing, and maybe not even then. In the meantime I've been enjoying your posts.

I'm sorry if I gave Ceska the impression I was cross about anything; I most certainly was not!

 

[iamshadow21]

I agree we won't know much of anything for sure until the preliminary hearing, and maybe not even then. In the meantime I've been enjoying your posts.

I'm sorry if I gave Ceska the impression I was cross about anything; I most certainly was not!

Thanks! I know I've just turned up here, but I did start at thread one, so even though I haven't talked till I was up to date, it feels almost like I've been here from the beginning.

Tone is hard to convey in written form. We all goof sometimes, in what we say or what we perceive in something someone else has said. And it's always a bit more fractious in a busy thread when there's not much hard information coming out on a big case. Don't stress about it.

 

[Cool Cats]

As attorney/poster Cassady wrote above, alibi witness testimony is often ignored by judges and juries. And I will add that is especially true when the witness is a close family member. (Which is a problem for defendants. The only witness I have to my whereabouts at 4 a.m. any night is my husband. Who else would know?)

But I agree with you that BK's attorney would have revealed alibi evidence, if she had any, for purposes of requesting bail.

Interesting. Right, it depends on the type of alibi.

It would have to be an iron clad alibi for someone like BK. Like he was in Pennsylvania visiting his parents or in front of a camera the whole time, or with a group of people who didn't sleep the whole time, or at a job the whole time, etc....

I'm sure in some cases the prosecution and judge will go for witness testimony on an alibi, I know the police will sometimes rely on witness testimony when investigating a suspect. It all depends, there are so many variables.

The DoorDash delivery driver had to be ruled out, he was at the house 20 minutes before it happened.
He helped with the timeline.

(I'm not disagreeing or lecturing you, CC. Yours is merely the last post I saw on the subject.)

The site I link below includes replies from a number of lawyers re the rules of reciprocal discovery AND the limitations thereon, none of which refers to Idaho specifically, though most states have similar rules based on federal requirements. (Any requirement for reciprocal discovery on the part of the defense has to be tempered by the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination and rules re attorney-client privilege, I think.)

My best guess--IANAL--is that IF the defense requires the DA to disclose material, then the defense must reciprocate with a list of its witnesses, exhibits and any report that will be relied upon by expert witness, etc. Also required is disclosure of any alibi evidence.

If I am reading correctly--and there's no guarantee I am--the defense is NOT required to disclose things it will not use at trial. I am thinking of expert witness testimony that doesn't help the defense. So any report by the defense expert who toured the crime scene won't be disclosed unless BK's lawyer plans to use it.

Maybe Cassady or one of our other lawyers will want to clarify my conclusions. I promise I will not be offended.

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/what-does-defendants-reciprocal-discovery-mean-in--2086622.html

Yup. Nobody has to turn over anything they are not going to use at trial.

This is a type of evidence that must be used in trial no matter which side finds it - exculpatory evidence:

Exculpatory Evidence | Definition, Examples & Uses - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

What is exculpatory evidence? Learn the definition of exculpatory and about inculpatory evidence. Read about the etymology and the history of...

study.com

What does exculpatory mean?

Exculpatory evidence is any evidence used to support the innocence of a defendant on trial. It can be evidence uncovered by either the prosecution or defense and must be presented in court.

Does a prosecutor have to turn over exculpatory evidence?

Yes, the American Bar Association's Standing Committee on Ethics and Professional Responsibility and the U.S. Department of Justice have mandated that prosecutors must turn over all exculpatory evidence and materials related to each defendant on trial in a timely manner. Whether the evidence fully exonerates or only lessens the guilt of a defendant doesn't matter. Prosecutors are bound ethically and legally to search through files, save all witness interviews, and turn over all materials favorable to the defense even if those materials may be inadmissible or deemed by the prosecution to have little to no bearing on the case. The courts have ruled that any evidence found that should have been turned over to the defense is considered exculpatory if that evidence would have yielded a different result for the accused.

What is an example of exculpatory evidence?

An example of exculpatory evidence: A person is accused of fleeing the scene of an accident after a hit and run. Her lawyer uncovers footage from a traffic camera 35 miles away showing she ran a red light at the same moment as the hit and run. The traffic camera video is exculpatory evidence proving that she couldn't be the driver of the hit and run since she was nowhere near the crime at the time it happened.

 

[Thewiley]

Except certain details conflict with what police have stated. Respectfully, I will stick with the facts from law enforcement.

agreed. I am an “impartial juror” and will wait until the actual facts come out at trial.
edited to add : even police and officers have confidential sources

 

[jepop]

I wonder if there was footage from when the hit-and-run happened in front of his building. The crash was at 11:40 pm. It's also possible he didn't leave from his building right before the crime. I don't know if that's been established.

Just hours before the Idaho murders, another grisly scene unfolded outside Bryan Kohberger's window

It's unclear whether the crash had anything to do with the killings or was a coincidence of two bloody crime scenes not far from each other.

www.insider.com

If footage available, I'd imagine LE would have checked to see if there was any that showed BK's car in the lot or something like that. If that happenned the results aren't known to the public. MOO

BBM, RE when BK allegedly left the building on Nov 13th. With the info currently available from PCA, I'd surmise he left at around 2.45am. MOO

From the PCA (p7), LE has BK leaving his building about 2.44ish, per phone ping. BK's phone is then switched off at c2.47am. The elantra is then on surveilance cameras on North-East Nevada Street Pullman, at c2.53am (PCA, p7).

At c3.26am the elantra is captured heading west on camera at c800 Indian Hills Drive Moscow. LE point out for this capture that the front plate on the elantra appears to be absent. (PCA, p5). Then on Styner Road heading west at c 3.28am. It is then captured entering the King/Queen Street neighbourhood at c3.29am (PCA, pp5-6).

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - 122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf

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[Cool Cats]

none of those convictions had the technology we do for BK, and BK has nothing to do with the ACLU. this isn't a racial justice issue. IMO.

And if BK is convicted by a jury of his peers then I am sure it won't be a wrongful conviction. Sounds like a topic that should have it's own thread.

 

[Nila Aella]

Per the PCA, the Door Dasher was there around 4 am approximately and BK drove up for that final time before the murders at 4:04 am. It's unclear when his previous laps around the house were other than they'd started approximately 30 minutes earlier.

I think he was blithely unaware of the Door Dasher and that he was probably doing another one of his turns like he was recorded doing at the gas station right about when the food was being dropped off. My guess is if he'd seen the Door Dasher, he may have been spooked off that night since I suspect one of the reasons he was doing laps was to make sure everyone was asleep. MOO

Just jumping off your post b/c I wanted to point out he wasn't really parked at 4:04, he was still driving and trying to find a spot to park. Excellent point about the gas station three point turn, that shows he makes three point turns to change direction. Just thinking about it, I rarely do that. MOO

He drove by three times between 3:29 - ?. No road given, just that he leaves on Walenta. MOO

These sightings show Suspect Vehicle I makes an initial three passes by the 1122 King Road residence and then leave via Walenta Drive

According to the PCA, he entered the area a forth time at 4:04. He drove east King - turn, west King - attempted park/turn, three point turn at intersection, east on Queen, then presumably parked). JMO

Suspect Vehicle 1 can be seen entering the area a fourth time a approximalely 4:04 a.m. It can be seen driving eastbound on King Road, stopping and tuming around in front of 500 Queen Road #52 and then driving back westbound on King Road. When Suspect Vehicle I is in front of the King Road Residence, it appeared to unsuccessfully attempt to park or tum around in the road. The vehicle then continued to the intersection of Queen Road and King Road where it can be seen completing a three-point tum and then driving eastbound again down Queen Road.

The PCA also says Xana receives Door Dash approx 4. DM wakes approx 4 to dog playing. A short time later she hears Kaylee say "there's someone here." Then DM hears crying from Cara's room.

For me, the timeline doesn't fit with him being the one making the dog playing noise. I suppose that LE might just be purposefully vague in the PCA, but I also wonder if they really know specific times other than the Door Dash, car time stamps, tik tok, plus phone communication inside the house. JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case...it - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett-Payne.pdf

 

[jepop]

I tend to agree with you. However, dictionaries defines it differently. What I bolded doesn't sound like BK.

If you call someone a coward, you disapprove of them because they are easily frightened and avoid dangerous or difficult situations.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/coward

Looking in from the outsideat BK's (the alleged killers') alleged actions, one could say, IMO that he "...avoided a potentially dangerous and difficult situation" for himself (getting caught, being heard and someone calling 911 for eg.) by going into the house in the dead of night, when he expected the victims to be in bed and vulnerable, before proceeding to murder them with a seven inch bladed knife. It is possible, IMO, that the alleged killer himself may have considered his actions as bold and daring I guess. MOO

 

[jepop]

Just jumping off your post b/c I wanted to point out he wasn't really parked at 4:04, he was still driving and trying to find a spot to park. Excellent point about the gas station three point turn, that shows he makes three point turns to change direction. Just thinking about it, I rarely do that. MOO

He drove by three times between 3:29 - ?. No road given, just that he leaves on Walenta. MOO

These sightings show Suspect Vehicle I makes an initial three passes by the 1122 King Road residence and then leave via Walenta Drive

According to the PCA, he entered the area a forth time at 4:04. He drove east King - turn, west King - attempted park/turn, three point turn at intersection, east on Queen, then presumably parked). JMO

Suspect Vehicle 1 can be seen entering the area a fourth time a approximalely 4:04 a.m. It can be seen driving eastbound on King Road, stopping and tuming around in front of 500 Queen Road #52 and then driving back westbound on King Road. When Suspect Vehicle I is in front of the King Road Residence, it appeared to unsuccessfully attempt to park or tum around in the road. The vehicle then continued to the intersection of Queen Road and King Road where it can be seen completing a three-point tum and then driving eastbound again down Queen Road.

The PCA also says Xana receives Door Dash approx 4. DM wakes approx 4 to dog playing. A short time later she hears Kaylee say "there's someone here." Then DM hears crying from Cara's room.

For me, the timeline doesn't fit with him being the one making the dog playing noise. I suppose that LE might just be purposefully vague in the PCA, but I also wonder if they really know specific times other than the Door Dash, car time stamps, tik tok, plus phone communication inside the house. JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett-Payne.pdf

I've always given him 2-4 minutes to park after the first reference in the PCA to 4.04am with all that attempting to park, etc. I tend to imagine he wouldn't have entered the house until 4.08, but possibly even a couple of minutes after that. After parking, he might need a moment to steel himself for e.g, then what? 30 secs or something to walk and enter premises. Basically I speculate 4.08 at the ealiest. MOO.

 

[jepop]

There was a Jack in the Box bag in the kitchen with XK's name on it, near the sink. Maybe that was a bag from a different day though?

Did DoorDash delivery person actually come up to the slider door and hand the food to someone? Or leave it somewhere outside near one of the doors? I'm wondering if BK was already in the house at that point... such a short time frame for so much to happen, and then the car was seen leaving the area at 4:20...

<moo>

BBM.At this point, those are unknowns IMO.The PCA is silent on those questions. We can read the PCA, weigh the info, research door dash delivery etiquette/norms perhap?s and try to come to a position. Probably become much clearer as the proceedings proceed. MOO

 

[Dotta]

Looking in from the outsideat BK's (the alleged killers') alleged actions, one could say, IMO that he "...avoided a potentially dangerous and difficult situation" for himself (getting caught, being heard and someone calling 911 for eg.) by going into the house in the dead of night, when he expected the victims to be in bed and vulnerable, before proceeding to murder them with a seven inch bladed knife. It is possible, IMO, that the alleged killer himself may have considered his actions as bold and daring I guess. MOO

How typical of cowards to attack from the shadows,
stab/shoot the unsuspecting victim in the back!

But never fight with honour - face to face.

JMO

 

[BrownRice]

Did the delivery person say who received the food? I thought the bag was on the counter in the kitchen? If XK did take the order, set it on the counter while she ran upstairs to perhaps get something. And then sadly was killed. It almost sounds like BK was already in the house. JMO

I don’t think that’s been released. Also, we order food a lot, and 99% of the time it’s left at door with no human contact.

Also, we don’t know if there was food in the bag still or if she ate it and the bag is trash I assume she ate it because XK was reported to be on TikTok until 4:13.

 

[BrownRice]

I'm home alone right now, and my internet history would show that, both in terms of the Wifi network I'm using and my browser and text history. My floodlight camera would show what time I came home and put the car in the garage for the night. Chris Watts was caught in part because his neighbor caught him backing his truck into his garage very early in the morning, which he had never done before. That said, I don't think it's possible to "always" prove innocence, or there wouldn't be innocent people in prison. But the same technology that allows law enforcement to spot criminals via surveillance cameras, license plate readers, GPS could also help an innocent person.

I agree. It’s not always possible to prove an alibi. But I’d say it’s a lot easier now than an century before us. It’s almost impossible to not be tracked digitally or via video most hours of the day. Likewise, as we may see with this case (“may” because innocent until proven guilty), the digital footprint also results in most cases being solved these days as well.

 

[BrownRice]

It's pretty hard to argue the car and his phone (!) were stolen when the car was in his possession the next morning.

They were considerate thieves. Brought the car and phone back when they were done using them.

 

[Dotta]

They were considerate thieves. Brought the car and phone back when they were done using them.

Haha
Unfortunately, they forgot to clean it.

Didn't HE spend HOURS cleaning it like a maniac?

Not that it showed from the outside

 

[BrownRice]

Just jumping off your post b/c I wanted to point out he wasn't really parked at 4:04, he was still driving and trying to find a spot to park. Excellent point about the gas station three point turn, that shows he makes three point turns to change direction. Just thinking about it, I rarely do that. MOO

He drove by three times between 3:29 - ?. No road given, just that he leaves on Walenta. MOO

These sightings show Suspect Vehicle I makes an initial three passes by the 1122 King Road residence and then leave via Walenta Drive

According to the PCA, he entered the area a forth time at 4:04. He drove east King - turn, west King - attempted park/turn, three point turn at intersection, east on Queen, then presumably parked). JMO

Suspect Vehicle 1 can be seen entering the area a fourth time a approximalely 4:04 a.m. It can be seen driving eastbound on King Road, stopping and tuming around in front of 500 Queen Road #52 and then driving back westbound on King Road. When Suspect Vehicle I is in front of the King Road Residence, it appeared to unsuccessfully attempt to park or tum around in the road. The vehicle then continued to the intersection of Queen Road and King Road where it can be seen completing a three-point tum and then driving eastbound again down Queen Road.

The PCA also says Xana receives Door Dash approx 4. DM wakes approx 4 to dog playing. A short time later she hears Kaylee say "there's someone here." Then DM hears crying from Cara's room.

For me, the timeline doesn't fit with him being the one making the dog playing noise. I suppose that LE might just be purposefully vague in the PCA, but I also wonder if they really know specific times other than the Door Dash, car time stamps, tik tok, plus phone communication inside the house. JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett-Payne.pdf

I wonder if he saw lights on in the house, so that’s why he kept driving around.