ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide - Moscow #2

[Khammer]

+1. How would she know they took the dog out that night?

I want to add that it makes no sense that she’d bring the dog back for her visit. She knew she’d be out partying. Plus, would she really want to take a dog in her new car?

 

[Maryjane1219]

No. Not unless it was titled “these are all of my roommates, not sorority sisters or friends.”

A news outlet also showed a photo of the fraternity in the initial article posted here, but that, was a lie.

in kaylees tiktok “the roommates pretending to be each other” shows they are all female

 

[Oregonmama]

Ethan Chapin's mother revealed in her lengthy interview with King 5 News which I previously liked that the tenants were 5 females, and her son's girlfriend that was also murdered was one of the five women.

With due respect, parents do not know everything.

 

[dgfred]

Are you saying that dogs go out to pee every 4-5 hours? If so, that is not accurate.

Accuracy IMO is relative to the dog.

Yes... some 4 or 5 hours
Some 8 or 9
Some let their dog pee on the floors.

Their routine was to let the dog out before bed. Why is that being argued? What the heck?

 

[Khammer]

Accuracy IMO is relative to the dog.

Yes... some 4 or 5 hours
Some 8 or 9
Some let their dog pee on the floors.

Their routine was to let the dog out before that. Why is that being argued? What the heck?

I don’t think anyone is arguing, we’re just hoping the pooch wasn’t there too.

 

[AAApopo]

Sliding door seems most plausible but is Kaylee's last image on IG from her place? If so, the far window on the last picture seems to be open.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

From everything I've read, I feel it was probably a guy who got rejected by one of the girls. He entered through the second level sliding door, attacked Maddie and Kaylee on the top level. That possibly that caused enough noise to wake Ethan/Xana on the middle level, which was why he attacked them as well. I'm thinking the other housemates survived because the killer either wanted to get out of there immediately after the attack on Ethan/Xana or he didn't know there were any other housemates on the lower level.

The guy in the food truck video is definitely suspicious. I'm not saying he did it. But as a girl, I have had a lot of experiences where a guy wouldn't take no for an answer and would linger in a similar way. That video gives me the creeps. If they had some kind of interaction with him not on video where he was rejected (possibly strongly, which I'm not judging anyone for - again I've been in that position myself where a guy just won't leave me alone, and it should never get to that point), I can see that being the motive for the attack. There are, unfortunately, a lot of guys out there who can't handle rejection and would react aggressively/seek revenge. What I'm not sure about is if it was a long-time stalker, or if just met them that night. Hoping the police track him and other witnesses at the food truck down and can rule him out, if he didn't do it.

I also think the surviving housemates were completely unaware of what had happened upstairs, whether they were insulated from the noise or just in a deep sleep. I think they were still in bed the morning the bodies were found (having been a uni student myself, being in bed until noon on a weekend is highly believable), maybe texted a friend to come over, and the friend came in and saw Ethan and ran out and called the police. The whole "unconscious" thing is probably being overthought. They were probably freaking out and just told the 911 operator they saw someone lying there, etc. didn't know if they were alive or not.

I'm so sad for these girls, and their friends/family. I hope they catch whoever did it asap. It's crazy to me there isn't even a suspect yet, if that's the truth. For everyone's sake, I'm hoping they have some leads and they're just saying they don't to throw off the killer.

I agree with your theory and thoughts.

However, to be fair, some females can't and won't take no for an answer either. I don't think that happened in this case, but it does happen.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I feel like I’m going to get a time out from reporting posts today. kidding sort of. And, I’m not trying to be the mods, admins, or “post police” but I have followed too many cases here when a thread gets shut down because people can’t follow the rules and it is not fun to not be able to comment or follow the case together.

But would everyone go to the first page of this thread and read the admin comments? It will help keep this open and keep posts from being deleted. The social media rules are linked in the forum rules as well.

 

[Manwel]

I also thought of the Orsolya Gaal case. I think that’s the reason the officers haven’t said who called in the 911 call is because people will automatically assume it’s that person, or either way if it was or wasn’t the two other roommates people would further speculate about them, as well. At 3 or 4 am people are in very deep sleep and can sleep through this, as evidenced by multiple cases. My state had an attack this year where the parents were attacked and being stabbed in their bedroom, the mother even ran out of the house to a neighbor’s for help while the dad was fighting. There was screaming and fighting going on. (Luckily both survived). The children slept through the whole thing and weren’t harmed or attacked, probably because they continued sleeping. It’s not crazy to me that college students would/could sleep in until noon or later the next day on a weekend.

As for the 911 call-in, we don’t know if the caller stated someone was “unconscious” or if that’s how the responders entered it until police could get over there. If someone on site did call it in as someone being unconscious, it could have been a friend coming to visit who saw them through a window. It also could have been the surviving roommate(s) who were in shock and not thinking clearly when they called 911. Can you imagine waking up to find someone who has been stabbed to death? Your body might shut down and you would be feeling extremely fearful, having no idea when it occurred or if you were at risk. Maybe they even saw one of the victims and in fear ran out of the house and so they didn’t have time or wherewithal to take stock of the scene in totality or maybe they were in disbelief, ran out of the house, and then didn’t believe what they had seen so gave fewer details to police because they weren’t sure if they really saw what they saw.

During the press conference last night one of the reporters pointed out that the "unconscious" designation didn't seem appropriate if someone is stabbed and Chief Fry rather dramatically said "I agree!" Then refused to elaborate further. This was one of the lines of questioning where he got really itchy and edgy. I feel like there is something to this story that they're not sharing that goes beyond "the roommates found them and called."

That would be a simple story that everyone expects. But they haven't shared that. Why?

 

[branmuffin]

Would someone have to be trained in knives in order to execute 4 people without awakening others? Can you just watch videos and learn-I went down the rabbithole of KBar knives and saw that knives are part of Marine basic training in the MCMAP (martial arts) program. Could the killer have been in the military, or trained to use the weapon? I think a frenzied attack would have woken someone up. I don’t think that happened here.

A lot of knife attacks result in the assailant also receiving injuries when their hand slips down to the blade if the handle is slick with blood. That would be more common when using something like a kitchen knife or a stiletto that doesn't have a hilt separating the blade from the handle. A Ka-bar knife with a hilt would minimize that effect but hitting bone could make the hand jump to the blade.

When processing the crime scene the forensic team would be testing all blood samples to see if any other person's blood was in the mix. If they did find unknown blood samples they are probably looking for someone who has injuries to their dominant hand.

The fact that they are looking for purchases of Ka-bar type knives might suggest they didn't find any foreign blood at the scene. But it also suggests from the wound patterns whether the blade was smooth, serrated, a combination of smooth and serrated or curved, double or single bladed. Many states do not allow the sale or use of double edged blades and even Ka-bar doesn't sharpen the top of the knife anymore.

Surprise is the biggest element an assailant with a knife has. It is very possible that other household members slept through a massacre, especially if they had been drinking.

 

[branmuffin]

So when police said that the door was still open when they showed up, to me that means actually open, not unlocked IMO. Could it be that it was opened by a roommate? If they are the ones who called 911, they may not have wanted to wait in the house. If I woke up to see a murder scene at my house, I'd be getting out of dodge. Probably running out of the house and not worrying about the door being left open behind me. I know they said the roommates were there when police arrived, but they could have been on the property but not IN the house. JMO

That could be the reason the dog hasn't been mentioned if the door was open and it got out. Either that or an earlier poster suggested the dog went home with Kaylee which I think is more likely. I hope.

 

[Oregonmama]

A lot of knife attacks result in the assailant also receiving injuries when their hand slips down to the blade if the handle is slick with blood. That would be more common when using something like a kitchen knife or a stiletto that doesn't have a hilt separating the blade from the handle. A Ka-bar knife with a hilt would minimize that effect but hitting bone could make the hand jump to the blade.

When processing the crime scene the forensic team would be testing all blood samples to see if any other person's blood was in the mix. If they did find unknown blood samples they are probably looking for someone who has injuries to their dominant hand.

The fact that they are looking for purchases of Ka-bar type knives might suggest they didn't find any foreign blood at the scene. But it also suggests from the wound patterns whether the blade was smooth, serrated, a combination of smooth and serrated or curved, double or single bladed. Many states do not allow the sale or use of double edged blades and even Ka-bar doesn't sharpen the top of the knife anymore.

Surprise is the biggest element an assailant with a knife has. It is very possible that other household members slept through a massacre, especially if they had been drinking.

I think the 2 surviving roommates were on the very top level and heavy drinking does limit functions. If 2 of the girls lived in the basement rooms then it would have very easy to kill with out a lot of noise. Perhaps the roommate's boyfriend heard sounds went out to investigate and he was killed on the middle floor while his gf was passed out in her room on the main floor.

 

[nocturnes]

A lot of knife attacks result in the assailant also receiving injuries when their hand slips down to the blade if the handle is slick with blood. That would be more common when using something like a kitchen knife or a stiletto that doesn't have a hilt separating the blade from the handle. A Ka-bar knife with a hilt would minimize that effect but hitting bone could make the hand jump to the blade.

When processing the crime scene the forensic team would be testing all blood samples to see if any other person's blood was in the mix. If they did find unknown blood samples they are probably looking for someone who has injuries to their dominant hand.

The fact that they are looking for purchases of Ka-bar type knives might suggest they didn't find any foreign blood at the scene. But it also suggests from the wound patterns whether the blade was smooth, serrated, a combination of smooth and serrated or curved, double or single bladed. Many states do not allow the sale or use of double edged blades and even Ka-bar doesn't sharpen the top of the knife anymore.

Surprise is the biggest element an assailant with a knife has. It is very possible that other household members slept through a massacre, especially if they had been drinking.

Where has it been stated that police are looking for purchases of Kabar knives?
Edit to add I found a news story on this:

Police seek ‘Rambo’-style knife in probe of Idaho student murders: report

Police investigating the slaughter of four University of Idaho students have asked the manager of a local store owner whether he sold a “Rambo”-style knife known as KA-BAR to anyone.

nypost.com

 

[Gae]

A lot of knife attacks result in the assailant also receiving injuries when their hand slips down to the blade if the handle is slick with blood. That would be more common when using something like a kitchen knife or a stiletto that doesn't have a hilt separating the blade from the handle. A Ka-bar knife with a hilt would minimize that effect but hitting bone could make the hand jump to the blade.

When processing the crime scene the forensic team would be testing all blood samples to see if any other person's blood was in the mix. If they did find unknown blood samples they are probably looking for someone who has injuries to their dominant hand.

The fact that they are looking for purchases of Ka-bar type knives might suggest they didn't find any foreign blood at the scene. But it also suggests from the wound patterns whether the blade was smooth, serrated, a combination of smooth and serrated or curved, double or single bladed. Many states do not allow the sale or use of double edged blades and even Ka-bar doesn't sharpen the top of the knife anymore.

Surprise is the biggest element an assailant with a knife has. It is very possible that other household members slept through a massacre, especially if they had been drinking.

IMO, it would be difficult to stab four adults to death without the perp injuring himself in the act - no matter what kind of knife - unless as you described - they were all attacked in their sleep.

 

[BeSweets]

IMO, it would be difficult to stab four adults to death without the perp injuring himself in the act - no matter what kind of knife - unless as you described - they were all attacked in their sleep.

I feel he’d definitely have self inflicted wounds. If he ran off on foot there would almost be a blood trail, wouldn’t there?

 

[tokyorose]

Routine. The would have/need to every night. Usually every 4 or 5 hours at least. Right?

Depends on the size of the dog. I have a large dog ( 75 lbs) and he can go for 12 hours if he has to because he has a larger bladder.

 

[iamnotagolem]

During the press conference last night one of the reporters pointed out that the "unconscious" designation didn't seem appropriate if someone is stabbed and Chief Fry rather dramatically said "I agree!" Then refused to elaborate further. This was one of the lines of questioning where he got really itchy and edgy. I feel like there is something to this story that they're not sharing that goes beyond "the roommates found them and called."

That would be a simple story that everyone expects. But they haven't shared that. Why?

Ethan’s mom said a friend who didn’t live in the house called 911.

But my big issue with the presser is they left the two live roommates up as suspects. Why do that? Surely it was clear whether or not they were involved. So why not just clarify that they were asleep/gone/unaware of the murders, etc to remove suspicion from them.

There are straight up accusations on the victims SM pages accusing the other roommates as being the killers. Can you imagine sleeping through your friends murder then being accused by people all over SM as being the killer? Those poor kids.

 

[Seattle1]

With due respect, parents do not know everything.

I think most parents will agree with OP's statement! However, when two grieving parents preface a media interview with the statement that they decided to speak to King5 only because there was so much erroneous information being cited, I'm inclined to believe that their responses to direct questions from the reporter including the number and gender of the tenants residing at the crime scene location is accurate. Otherwise, I think the response would be they did not know and therefore could not answer the question. JMO

 

[otto]

IMO the rumors of the 2 unharmed roommates living on the 3rd floor are inaccurate. We can see in this link from Kaylee’s TikTok that her room was likely the biggest room on the 3rd floor. kayjade on TikTok

The flooring and location of the floor vent is confirmed by the listing photo attached. (ETA: keep in mind the room would be reflected opposite in a video recording. You can see that her vanity/desk (behind her in TikTok video) is set up in the recessed area shown to the right in the listing photo below) She also had the good vibes sign (seen on Kaylee’s IG account) that can be seen in the second attached photo from Fox News that shows the middle floor and top floor view from the backyard and confirming that Kaylee’s room had the balcony (which is also seen briefly in the TikTok video).

I then *assume* since Maddie and Kaylee were besties that it’s likely Maddie was also on 3rd floor since they knew each other best although that is pure speculation on my part, but goes along with what was reported that the upper floors were worst.

ETA extra comments in parentheses for better detail and clarification.

Agreed. One of the victims is seen in her own video in what appears to be her bedroom on the third floor. She is next to the patio door on the third floor above the second floor kitchen patio door.

Since the male victim was found on the second floor, it seems likely that he was the first victim, and he may have opened the door. The three female victims were on the second and third floors.

"Officers at the scene on Tuesday described a bloody crime scene, particularly on the upper floors of the house." link

 

[kwa]

If the survivors were not on the top floor, and entry was made on the first floor, why did the killer bypass their rooms? Was it as simple as a locked door, or was the killer entering rooms and killing until he found his intended target? Was he confronted by Ethan?

If you scroll through this string, you'll see that the house is built on a hill. The "front door" on the lower level near parking lot sits low on the house. However, the sliding glass doors that have been shown in many photos are on the second (or "main") level, with the kitchen and living area -- on the "back" of the house.

If the killer was not familiar with the house and made entry through the sliding glass doors intending to do harm, he may not even have realized there were bedrooms on the first floor/lower level. From the main living area (2nd floor), the stairs "down" may look like they lead to utility room/laundry room/parking exit and nothing more. I think it would be a reasonable assumption that the bedrooms are "upstairs" (i.e., the 3rd floor).

There have been many comments that Ethan may have been found on the main level. I do not know if these comments are accurate. If they are, it seems entirely possible that Ethan could have simply been passed out on the couch in the living room. If he got up at some point to go to the kitchen or let the dog out, he could have just fallen asleep there.

Finally, the idea that two roommates on the lower level never heard anything and did not see the carnage until the bodies were discovered seems 100% understandable. Most college students who stayed up late the night before will stay in bed until at least noon on a Sunday. Not unusual at all.