ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide - Moscow #2

[Emerald1328]

Coroner: Autopsies confirm cause of death for UI students was stabbing. 'It would have had to been a large knife'

Following Wednesday’s autopsy of the four University of Idaho students found dead Sunday near campus, the Latah County coroner confirmed the cause of death was murder by stabbing.

dnews.com

Following Wednesday’s autopsy of the four University of Idaho students found dead Sunday near campus, the Latah County coroner confirmed the cause of death was murder by stabbing.

“It would have had to been a large knife,” Cathy Mabbutt said Thursday about the murder weapon, which has not been found.

And this:

Mabbutt said it is unknown who was attacked first. She said it is possible some wounds on the bodies were defensive.

 

[mysteryfan96]

I've been doing the same. I think what's most likely is someone saw Kaylee and Madison and followed them home. That would fit the profiling of targeting, but not personal enough to know about the other two girls asleep downstairs.

I think someone followed them back from the bar/food truck (as a girl who had a few "clingers" when I was in college and can read body language of girls wanting out of a situation, I have my opinions on who this "someone" might be, but that's all speculation regarding someone who hasn't been identified as a suspect [yet?] so I won't elaborate here) and likely waited for their lights to go off before entering the house. I've seen some speculation on SM (hopefully not accurate, but it's still been posted) that makes it sound like this might be an incel-type of situation, which again would lend itself to LE emphasis on it being a targeted crime.

I think Xana and Ethan were a case of wrong place/wrong time. I don't see them being the targets unless they were followed home from the party and someone tried to rob them, but LE says nothing was missing so that doesn't seem quite right to me.

You and I are thinking of the exact same scenario and same person. I read their mannerisms at the food truck precisely as you did. It jumped off the screen as such, and someone else’s actions were super, super suspicious. I’m not one to read too much into anything and tend to downplay when people jump to conclusions. But I showed the video to my brother without giving him any context to the case (he hadn’t even heard about it) or any of my suspicions. Without any prompting, he pointed out exactly what I thought I saw (and what you obviously did, too).

Maybe that all ends up being a massive red herring with zero relevance. It happens. But IMHO, it sure does raise a very plausible possibility.

 

[LurkingSleuther]

perhaps the dog was Kaylee’s and since she was in the process of moving out of the apartment (she was graduating in December) Kaylee was just visiting campus to hangout and show Madison her new car, she didn’t bring her dog with her. If you watch the interview of her sister, she says Kaylee wasn’t even supposed to be there.

The sister mentioned that Kaylee let the dog outside. I took that to mean the dog was there at the home (but outside).

 

[Cryptic]

They are also part of standard issue kit for a number of Federal Gov't civil service employees who work outdoors. I've still got mine.

Edit: I got a laugh out of your "knife nut" comment. If you saw my collection, you'd probably think I'm one.

I had no idea that they were still issued to government employees.

Idaho is big forestry country. I wonder if forestry workers and say, student forestry majors doing summer internships are issued Kabars?

I am glad you liked the knife nut reference. I am a recovering knife nut myself who still goes into relapse every so often.

 

[LurkingSleuther]

Fox News posted a close-up of the blood dripping down the exterior of the foundation. This is at ground level. It doesn't seem likely that the blood would have dripped from the second floor all the way down to the bottom floor so was one of the victims killed on the ground level?

I believe that was on the 2nd floor in the back half of the home where there was no first floor.

 

[JosefZ]

You and I are thinking of the exact same scenario and same person. I read their mannerisms at the food truck precisely as you did. It jumped off the screen as such, and someone else’s actions were super, super suspicious. I’m not one to read too much into anything and tend to downplay when people jump to conclusions. But I showed the video to my brother without giving him any context to the case (he hadn’t even heard about it) or any of my suspicions. Without any prompting, he pointed out exactly what I thought I saw (and what you obviously did, too).

Maybe that all ends up being a massive red herring with zero relevance. It happens. But IMHO, it sure does raise a very plausible possibility.

Not sure if this has been brought up but at 1:48 of the food truck video the customer in the frame looks a bit like one of the survivors. MOO.

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593379993249533952

 

[Seattle1]

This article says that "two other roommates [were] home at time of killings but declined to call 911, police say." Also, "[Police Chief] Fry did not say who called 911, despite two people being at the home when the killing took place and when officers responded."

This seems to imply that the two surviving roommates decided not to call 911 for some reason, and perhaps never called 911. If the roommates made the call about the "unconscious person" at the home, why not say so? JMO

Idaho murders: 2 other roommates home at time of killings but declined to call 911, police say

Moscow Police Chief James Fry gave an update Wednesday, saying two additional roommates were in the home at the time of the killings who were neither injured nor held hostage.

abc7chicago.com

From the link, I did not read anything here that states and/or implies that the survivors declined to call 911.

After the press conference, I think it was understood that they were home and most likely did not hear the massacre taking place in their home and probably slept in until the noon hour.

LE has not confirmed who made the call to 911. Personally, I hope the women were alerted by another to stay safe in their respective rooms-- preferably on another floor away from the horror until they could be escorted out and away by LE. Given the killer(s) still have not been identified or apprehended, I also hope they are receiving full police protection. JMO

 

[AAApopo]

How long after the discovery of a crime are the crime scenes themselves usually cleaned? There has been a lot of talk about the potential entrance of the perp through the sliding door, but that picture looks immaculate - no blood on door, floor, tracks (that can be seen, anyway, it’s a night photo), etc. Makes me wonder if the killer exited another way, hard to imagine they’d go through the front, however, where there is a greater chance of being spotted.

University of Idaho homicide victims believed stabbed to death in 'isolated, targeted attack': police | Fox News

No suspects in University of Idaho attack in custody as of Tuesday morning

www.foxnews.com

From the pictures I would assume all this was done on the 'backside' of the house. That is where the sliding doors were and behind it are a decent amount of trees. Also direct access to the 2nd and 3rd floors.

 

[Cryptic]

Very true. Could be “KaBar-style knife” and the reports are just using the brand name.

Hoping its a "Kabar Kabar" as those are fewer in number and would be easier to run down (though doing so would still probably need a little luck, say it was a recent purchase).

Meanwhile knock off Kabars for the @PacoElFlaco proverbial $20.00 can be relatively plentiful at swap meets, pawnshops, some gas stations and western style souvenier shops.

 

[dubster]

Authorities are now exploring the possibility that there could be more than one suspect

Idaho murders - live: ‘More than one’ suspect may be at large in university student ‘rambo knife’ stabbings

 

[DeDee]

If you read about Bundy's sorority house attack it doesn't say. But what is interesting is the testimony of one of the girls who survived. She said she heard him come into the room but couldn't see him and was unable to react in time to defend herself. I think MOO that this helps understand how an attack like this could happen.

Surviving a Serial Killer's attack is crucial.

< sbmff, politely snipped >

It is MOO that the police may consider the 911 caller a suspect, otherwise why not say " we know who it is, they've been cleared but we aren't releasing their identity.

There's a photo of all of the roommates in the DailyMail
Revealed: two Idaho students who survived when roommates were murdered

This will be a potentially tough case. Because the perp is probably young it is likely his DNA is not in the system. Students have left campus en masse so if he's a student then he's gone home as well, who knows where that may be. With many people having access to the house keypad code it could be literally anyone. MOO but that is a horrible security set up, especially for college kids. It amounts to having a perpetually unlocked door. MOO

Looks complex to me with numerous players 5+ living in one giant home when coupled with the blood oozing down the outside wall of the home from, I guess, the 2nd floor where Ethan was discovered. I was told once to consider blood to be similar to an oily substance between a knife and a hand. It can get slippery when wet.

This is the NYP that contains the cctv video, icymi. This is where the particular knife's mentioned: KA-BAR
Police seek ‘Rambo’-style knife in probe of Idaho student murders: report

 

[Ray_of_hope]

That could be the surviving girls heard noises in the night, but figured they were inebriated roommates falling or arguing or something, and went back to bed (rather than investigating or calling 911). That could have helped pin the times down also (3am-4am?)

Moo

Exactly. Danny Rolling subdued his victims at knifepoint, then taped their mouths while he raped and killed them by stabbing them. He killed one young lady and then went downstairs and repeated the same with her roommate. There was someone in another apartment who heard thumping when DR killed one of his victims. But then the noise stopped and the person felt that maybe someone in the other apartment was hanging pictures. People first try to explain away unusually rare events by finding the most common occurance for that type of noise or phenomenon, IMO. If the strange noise or phenomenon stops, then it's dismissed.
It's a good sign that there have been no other murders. Let's hope and pray that no other beautiful souls are lost and that the perp is found quickly.

Cop reveals clues that led to killer's arrest including HEAD on shelf

A RETIRED police office who played an instrumental role in capturing the real-life killer who inspired the film Scream said the “heinous” murder spree continues to haunt him more than 3…

www.the-sun.com

Surviving Ted Bundy: Women attacked by notorious serial killer share their stories

Ted Bundy targeted Florida college students in one of his final attacks – three of the women survived and share their terrifying ordeal and long road to recovery

www.cbsnews.com

 

[isabella88]

Authorities are now exploring the possibility that there could be more than one suspect

Idaho murders - live: ‘More than one’ suspect may be at large in university student ‘rambo knife’ stabbings

I would hope so!

 

[Warwick7]

The two roommates who escaped death while their four friends were knifed at their off-campus house are Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funke, both 21

Revealed: two Idaho students who survived when roommates were murdered

The two University of Idaho students who survived a fatal knife attack that left four of their friends dead can be identified as Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funke.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Edited by me to remove incorrect information.

Well sooner or later the names of the other roommates were going to come out.
Thank you for the msm article.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Surviving a Serial Killer's attack is crucial.


There's a photo of all of the roommates in the DailyMail
Revealed: two Idaho students who survived when roommates were murdered


Looks complex to me with numerous players 5+ living in one giant home when coupled with the blood oozing down the outside wall of the home from, I guess, the 2nd floor where Ethan was discovered. I was told once to consider blood to be similar to an oily substance between a knife and a hand. It can get slippery when wet.

This is the NYP that contains the cctv video, icymi. This is where the particular knife's mentioned: KA-BAR
Police seek ‘Rambo’-style knife in probe of Idaho student murders: report

OMG!
"Rolling, 39, bound the women with duct tape, covered their mouths to squelch their screams, raped three of them and stabbed them with a replica of a Marine Corps Ka-Bar knife. Smith said the man died because he was an obstacle to Paules - the last of the victims."

JURORS HEAR GRISLY DETAILS OF SEX, DEATH

Covered in blood after stabbing her roommate more than 30 times, Danny Rolling didn’t lie when the doomed Tracy Paules asked him a question. “You’re the one, aren’t you?&#82…

www.orlandosentinel.com

 

[Seattle1]

Bedding at the forensics lab confirms what we believed --that one or more of the victims were sleeping when they faced the intruder.

Coroner: Autopsies confirm cause of death for UI students was stabbing. 'It would have had to been a large knife'

Following Wednesday’s autopsy of the four University of Idaho students found dead Sunday near campus, the Latah County coroner confirmed the cause of death was murder by stabbing.

dnews.com

Mabbutt said it is unknown who was attacked first. She said it is possible some wounds on the bodies were defensive.

DNA samples, including from the clothing, bedding and nail clippings, still need to be tested at a forensics lab.

 

[AppleOrange]

Hi, I'm posting for the first time, how exciting! I'm up to page 17 of this latest thread having read from Page 1 on the first one - got some pages to go and hope I haven't missed anything of great importance between there and here, but I'll catch up quick.

Just wanted to say, caradana, love your posts - you always seem to be on the money. Learning a lot from you.

To those who wonder how murders could take place without the other two roommates knowing - I thought this also, but if you look at Kaylee's TikTok posts, you get a sense of the house internally and how everything 'feels' isolated and 'insulated', for want of a better term. These floors seem very separate, without an eyeline to the next landing, so I can imagine how these girls didn't hear anything, especially if they were in downstairs bedrooms. Having said that, I believe the killer/s would have to be highly skilled in attacking and, in addition to the military style weapon used, could either be an ex-military person or fancy themselves as such, having trained themselves via videos etc.

Also believe the timing is interesting re Kaylee's last return to the house.

The two roommates unaffected seem like really sweet girls and there appears to be no sense of discord amongst them; quite the opposite in fact. Kaylee's Tiktok posts are so cute (and heartbreaking). I encourage you to watch them - there are only a few. This is a lovely bunch of kids living their fun college lives.

So, like caradana (#1 fan ), I am also inclined to believe this quote:

Key quote:

Following the press conference, an Idaho state police spokesperson told The Post the two roommates were female and are not believed to be suspects. The spokesperson additionally said the pair were uninjured and cooperating with investigators.

Roommates were home when 4 University of Idaho students slaughtered — but called 911 hours later

I wouldn’t be surprised if the two roommates slept/hung around in bed till near noon either - they’re college students/early 20s, totally typical behaviour. And given they had a bathroom on each level, there was no need to go anywhere else in the house until they got hungry/bored.

This next bit is my guess, so MOO, JMO?

What if one girl - or both - start to get hungry, get up, wonder why it’s so quiet, go up the steps to the next level wondering if the others are around, sees Ethan from afar, freaks out and calls the police. From her/their vantage point, looking from the steps to the hallway or outside a room, he's down, there's blood. It’s entirely feasible the girls are petrified to explore further, especially how quiet and eerie it would then be in the house.

What I’m saying is Ethan may not have looked as bad as our minds take us to, having read all we have, especially given the top floor was purportedly the worst in terms of trauma. (This goes back to the ‘crime of passion’ - again, as caradana said, the primary will have the most wounds.) I think Ethan was an unlucky bystander, especially given he was out of the room when found. Perhaps he went to investigate a noise, heard the dog, whatever - I think he got in the way. Xana most likely would have heard/reacted. I personally think she was sadly also collateral damage.

It’s possible the killer knew the house layout, it’s possible he/she/they didn’t. If the killer entered through the sliding door, he’s at bedroom level to begin with. It’s unlikely that once he/she/they has targeted who they want, he/she/they are out of there - not going to go exploring down past the living room to see if there is anyone else around.

I think the food truck footage showed Maddie substantially drunk - she was stumbling past people, leaning against the truck, it’s acutely clear she was inebriated. Kaylee also but not to Maddie’s extent. So this would have affected their senses when they got home, whether they fell asleep or were in their rooms. I think it’s actually something of a blessing they had been drinking in terms of what physically happened to them.

Sorry for the long post, just so excited to join after all the reading.

JMO. MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I believe that was on the 2nd floor in the back half of the home where there was no first floor.

There is a ladder right there on the left side of the 1st floor?

 

[agreen36]

Alright so let's lay this out a bit.

My understanding is that the two girls who were not injured lived on the first floor. The couple was on the second floor/main living floor and the two girls who were murdered lived upstairs. Based on the layout of the house it seems you could walk in the "front" door which led into the first floor where the two survivors were or you could enter from the second floor in the kitchen area as the home was on a hill. So two possible entrances and exits.

We know that a "door" was left open. They don't specify which door that was. We also know the 911 call reported an unconcious person. Given the undoubtedly bloody scene and layout of the house, to me this implies somebody was looking into the house and saw a person lying on the ground but could not reach them. As if they had been able to, I don't think it would have been described as an "unconscious" person but rather a murder victim. I also think this means it wasn't one of the roommates who called 911 as they would have been able to access that person. I think it was the downstairs door that was left open as based on the Zillow photos, the "unconscious" person would have been visible on the second floor and if that door was left open, who ever saw the body could have entered the house to check on them. I think the unconscious person was one of the couple who slept on the second floor.

So piecing this together a bit...

The murderer gets to the second floor. Not sure how. Maybe a window was unlocked or maybe the door itself was unlocked. There was no sign of forced entry. They could have either entered and exited from the first floor or entered on the second floor and exited on the first. I suspect the whole house was sleeping. They go upstairs and murder the two girls. I'm guessing it was in their sleep. Then they go downstairs. Now maybe the couple on the second floor heard a noise and was awake and came to investigate? Then the intruder murders them both to protect himself (or herself, I suppose), and one of them is murdered somewhere in view of the door of the kitchen or the kitchen windows. If they were also targets then I guess the murderer could have killed them in bed but one of them tried to run but was killed.

The murderer then flees out the downstairs door and leaves it open. They could have run past the bedrooms down there in a haste to leave or maybe tried the doors but they were locked?

Then time goes by...around noon someone shows up. The rumor is they had plans with one of the survivors but it could have even been a neighbor or someone who walked by. The person comes to the second floor door, which is a sliding screen door, and can make out that there is a person lying on the ground but probably can't see the blood. They call 911 and report an unconscious person. First responders arrive and find the murder scene.

My questions: if there was an open door, why wasn't the person who saw the unconscious person able to enter the house? Unless maybe they didn't try to go around to other, unlocked door? I just assume the door in the kitchen was locked or else the person who saw the body would have tried to enter. If it was a friend of one of the girls alive in the basement, why didn't they call them and tell them to come upstairs and check on the person?

All in all, a lot of questions and my speculation could be completely off. I don't understand how they can say this isn't a threat. Even if there was a specific target, this person obviously has no qualms murdering four people at once. How can you say he wouldn't murder someone else? I also don't think it's odd the two girls slept through it. I suspect most of these individuals were murdered in their sleep so there may have been little to no noise. They were probably out late and could have had music playing or earbuds in. What a horrific thing to wake up to.

JMO.