ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 42

[Boodles]

On CNN late news, a former LE officer talked about how LE kept him under surveillance as he crossed the country. He either never suspected he was being tailed or didn’t react to it. He’s no genius.

IIRC, the CNN source was sharing what would theoretically be involved in tracking someone on a cross-country drive. He didn't have first hand knowledge of this actual case. LE has not said they tracked him as he drove across the country. They said they surveilled him for 4 days.

I’m questioning the accuracy of some of CNNs reporting. LE said BK had been surveilled for 4 days? Did BK not come home for Christmas like most Christian Americans (and a single guy) do? Because if BK came home for Xmas break to spend it with his family AND if he was tracked driving across country, that would be more than 4 days of surveillance.

I get the feeling he was surveilled for the past 4 days in PA, meaning they may not have connected the car specifically to BK until the trip home had already begun or he had already arrived home in PA. And then they commenced surveillance.

I also question CNNs reporting that genealogical data was used to ID his DNA. If LEs statement that they surveilled him for 4 days is accurate, it seems they nabbed some surreptitious DNA during 4 days (in PA) and turned it around quickly. And that sealed the deal for the arrest.

Because CNN says they traced the car to him AND genealogical data was used to ID BK. And it doesn’t make sense, IMO, that both things would be true.

But maybe BK did drive home after Xmas and he was tracked as he drove across country and coincidentally, they were simultaneously obtaining a genealogical DNA identification. But I suspect the panelist spouting that info on CNN spoke with incorrect info.

I’m tired, and am not sure this is making sense. I hope y’all can follow my thinking. MOO and JMO.

 

[John Book]

Maybe the two on the top floor heard something strange downstairs and went down to check it out, then "had" to be killed, because they saw the killer. Collateral it damage.

According to Moscow police: "Officers entered the residence and found two victims on the second floor and two victims on the third floor."

 

[Boodles]

Do you guys think he will fight extradition?

Yes. I think he’ll turn out to be quite a PITA. But that’s JMO/gut feeling. I hope I’m wrong.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Ever since we learned that K went to sleep in M’s room, I’ve been wondering if this crime was actually personally motivated, M may be the more likely target.

I’m leaning towards him wanting to kill more than one of them, largely because LE said they were all attacked while sleeping. I think he wanted to brutally murder young women. While one or more of them may have caught his attention rather than him prowling for victims, he still intended to kill several of the girls in that house.

Maybe M or X did serve him vegan food at their work and that is how he started targeting the whole house…

Yeah and to add to your thoughts - maybe he did notice or interact with 1 of them but then when realizing the close knit group and living arrangements "made his plan bigger" and more challenging.

I get the impression he thinks highly of himself and this as an achievement

 

[shellbee]

They are both genetically based. The environment might cue certain levels of dysfunction that lean more towards a "sociopathic" outcome, but it is now accepted that both psychopathic factor I or II is largely genetic, at least thoretically. It's important to remember that psychopathy was essentially a construct used to explain criminal behavior.

I was under the impression that the DSM-5 doesn't recognize psychopathy or sociopathy as actual conditions. They are considered layman's terms for Anti-social Personality Disorder, which is a recognized and diagnosed condition.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Would hypothetically …heroin… fit this category?
Just curious

Not usually. If it turns out he was doing drugs and that's what caused the change, I'd be thinking more along the lines of PCP.

 

[drmrgrl]

Omg great call.. look up LE

IMO, was it just me or did I correctly remember that LE called an HVAC van out to 1122 shortly after the murders. I always wondered about that.

 

[Trocroc9]

CNN’s story says genetic genealogy led to him. Genetic genealogy does it again. Man, I’ll tell you, what that is doing to solve cases is absolutely incredible. I think it’s the single greatest crime solving innovation maybe we’ve ever had, excluding DNA technology itself. The number of cases it’s going to solve going forward is incalculable.

I do think this is a possibility but I think it was the car that got the probable cause arrest affidavit. I don’t think they were quite there yet with genealogy. Although I love this idea and thought process and think it will become a detectives best friend soon.

 

[Kristina730]

I'm well aware. I do not believe psychopathy (or any reference diagnosis thereof) should be included in the DSM. Criminality can be criminality without being a mental health condition and that is what I consider ASPD to be.

What do you believe is the difference between psychopathy and ASPD? I went to grad school and learned the DSM. Is there some other model of characterizing behaviors that is taught in the criminal justice world? Is there a book similar to the DSM for criminology that includes terms like psychopathy and sociopathy? Genuinely interested in answers that come from criminal justice professionals.

 

[drmrgrl]

I agree. I feel like if BK has a connection to KG something will come out, even if it is through the media. I mean, look at all the people coming out of the woodwork to talk about how they knew him. At this moment, I wouldn't be surprised if someone at UoI just recognized a connection between the two.

???

 

[Thora_Jay]

I don’t think most graduate students would be successful reaching out to prison populations and asking the things he wanted to ask. It’s a vulnerable population and would be much stricter study protocol.

Yes graduate students do interview inmates.

Mainly sociology students and their Professors.

They normally meet in the general visiting room or in the solitary visiting room that is divided by a wall that has plexiglass and sitting face to face.

 

[Orlaam]

I'm well aware. I do not believe psychopathy (or any reference diagnosis thereof) should be included in the DSM. Criminality can be criminality without being a mental health condition and that is what I consider ASPD to be.

ASPD is not a mental health disorder. It's a personality deviation that reaches levels of aberrancy. Psychopathy is not listed in the DSM as any diagnosis or label. Psychopathy is a forensic construct used in forensic study. You can have antisocial traits and not be labeled ASPD. It's also important to know that just because the majority of people in prison are labeled as ASPD, not all are, thus it's not 100% equal to criminal behaviors. The DSM provides a groundwork for diagnosis of various mental problems, and not all are criminal. But to remove any criminally-related verbiage from a book that aids in diagnosis is strange to me. Anyone in the forensic community, as well as non-forensic one, knows you can commit a crime and not be diagnosed with an ICD code.

 

[darkstar105]

Recall Sondra London?

London was a true crime author and the fiancée of Danny Rolling.

In some ways, she was part of my intro to true crime. London posted on usenet in the mid 90s and I read the newsgroup and discovered Ann Rule and her book on Bundy, my first of many Rule reads.

Me too! I was "Darkstar" on alt.true-crime. I remember Sondra London

 

[LizWords]

IIRC, the CNN source was sharing what would theoretically be involved in tracking someone on a cross-country drive. He didn't have first hand knowledge of this actual case. LE has not said they tracked him as he drove across the country. They said they surveilled him for 4 days.

I’m questioning the accuracy of some of CNNs reporting. LE said BK had been surveilled for 4 days? Did BK not come home for Christmas like most Christian Americans (and a single guy) do? Because if BK came home for Xmas break to spend it with his family AND if he was tracked driving across country, that would be more than 4 days of surveillance.

I get the feeling he was surveilled for the past 4 days in PA, meaning they may not have connected the car specifically to BK until the trip home had already begun or he had already arrived home in PA. And then they commenced surveillance.

I also question CNNs reporting that genealogical data was used to ID his DNA. If LEs statement that they surveilled him for 4 days is accurate, it seems they nabbed some surreptitious DNA during 4 days (in PA) and turned it around quickly.

Because CNN says they traced the car to him AND genealogical data was used to ID BK. And it doesn’t make sense, IMO, that both things would be true.

But maybe BK did drive home after Xmas and he was tracked as he drove across country and coincidentally, they were simultaneously obtaining a genealogical DNA identification. But I suspect the panelist spouting that info on CNN spoke with incorrect info.

I’m tired, and am not sure this is making sense. I hope y’all can follow my thinking.

You’re making sense to me. The whole genealogical match made me think that is how they identified him initially, and then found he still was in possession of the car.

It wouldn’t surprise me if multiple people provided tips about him owning the white Elantra, but they had so so many tips, and the genealogy is what gave them his name and location…

 

[Kittycat40]

THEORY ONLY:
One of them heard something, got up to check, realized someone was in the home ran back to the room locked the door and then possibly went into a type disbelief/ shock remained in room for hours afraid to come out to check if intruder was gone.

No one needs to argue or pick apart. We all have opinions and ideas. This is just one of many theories.

With all due respect this theory of yours makes no sense. You’re entitled to your opinions and theories as we all are. I am just respectfully letting you know I disagree.

The 2 surviving girls on the first floor didn’t call the police till 10am/11 am the morning of the murders. The murders likely occurred between 3am and 5am. I doubt the surviving girls knowingly sat around for 5-6 hours before calling cops.

When the 2 surviving girls woke up at 9am/10 am they were in shock and weren’t sure what was going on. Which was why they called some friends over to check out the scene and then they realized oh crap this is a murder let’s call police. So your theory of, oh they heard something and felt something was wrong but just hid in their room the entire time just doesn’t jive.



There’s a small possibility they might have heard something while sleeping and chalked it up to a loud tv, their roommates having guests over for a little get together etc. But more than likely the 2 surviving girls slept through the murders not hearing much of anything as some people are deep sleepers.

JMO

 

[Boodles]

CNN’s story says genetic genealogy led to him. Genetic genealogy does it again. Man, I’ll tell you, what that is doing to solve cases is absolutely incredible. I think it’s the single greatest crime solving innovation maybe we’ve ever had, excluding DNA technology itself. The number of cases it’s going to solve going forward is incalculable.

I’m not buying that just yet. When the affidavit is unsealed, if it confirms that, I’ll believe it.

Because CNN also said they traced the car to him. Both things are true? I think someone spoke out of turn. I bet they did trace the car to him, then found him at his parent’s home for Xmas break, surveilled him and got his DNA there.

 

[Pretty Potato]

Yet one of the victims purportedly had deeper wounds, which imo means he had some sort of prior interaction with her.

Maybe he did kill before, those 3am murders in Oregon (I believe).

Not sure if this has been mentioned... Sandra Ladd Murder: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

 

[Normamsmiley]

Yes. I think he’ll turn out to be quite a PITA. But that’s JMO/gut feeling. I hope I’m wrong.

Fighting extradition is strategic. It’s a tiny amount of leverage in a situation where he has little if any at all.

He should not give anything that LE wants without getting something in return.

Since I don’t think that MPD is going to give ANYTHING helpful, I agree that he will just hold and make this difficult (unless he and his lawyer are both morons)

 

[Kaley Smith]

CNN’s story says genetic genealogy led to him. Genetic genealogy does it again. Man, I’ll tell you, what that is doing to solve cases is absolutely incredible. I think it’s the single greatest crime solving innovation maybe we’ve ever had, excluding DNA technology itself. The number of cases it’s going to solve going forward is incalculable.

I agree. I have my DNA in a genetic /genealogy database. Only the guilty have something to fear imo.

 

[NCgardener]

The female highschool friend said heroin in highschool/that change time. But then he went to rehab.

I actually agree with a lot of this. When I read about "the change" in him, I immediately thought drugs. The same drugs that cause weight loss can also cause aggression, violence, impulsive behavior, and even detachment from reality.

The only part I disagree with is steroids. While steroids certainly can cause aggression and irritability, they actually cause weight gain rather than loss.