ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 44

[JohnBull]

Why are so many obsessed with debating this guys intelligence? Most people following this case didn't even know he existed until 2 days ago. No one can say one way or the other. And honestly, it's not something that should even be contemplated without actually knowing the guy personally and frankly not important whatsoever. Either way he got himself caught and his intelligence is irrelevant now.

Au contraire, it may be very relevant, depending on your interest in such things as criminal psychology and motive. If your sole interest is "whodunit," why then, yes, that's probably that.

 

[Gemmie]

I live in Idaho and we are a very conservative state (lots didn't get the vaccine and didn't believe the virus was real) and I still see all types of people (young, old, male, female) at the grocery store who continue to wear masks and gloves. So, it would not be too weird to see someone with gloves on. Much to the suspect's advantage, I might add.

I've been wondering if the glove wearing was because he had bad cuts to his hands from stabbing 4 victims and was trying to hide that fact. His DNA at the scene might be from blood from his own wounds.

 

[10ofRods]

I think when the request for the white Elantra went out LE got a tip from some at WSU with the name and description of BCK
WSU Tip made him a POI- sometime early Dec

Did they watch him, did he drive back to the crime scene? Did he wash his car?
Some reports say he started wearing gloves everywhere, to prevent fingerprints.

I think watching him, collecting his trash is what linked him to the crime scene DNA with more clarity- it took time for those tests to come back

Yes they likely had other POIs that were running into dead ends
Agree, likely about the 23rd

JMO

He probably knew the DeAngelo case. Gloves would also prevent leaving touch DNA on a grocery cart (Joe was caught by the DNA on his car door handle, gotten while he was shopping at Hobby Lobby). BCK probably figured they were onto him and might be surveilling him.

I too think it was the trash outside his parents' home that gave the final and damning result. And, if the FBI had their rapid test van lab nearby, it wouldn't have taken more than a few hours. Maybe overnight

It must have been such an exciting, HIGH FIVE kind of moment for the lab peeps.

 

[renarde]

I think when the request for the white Elantra went out LE got a tip from some at WSU with the name and description of BCK
WSU Tip made him a POI- sometime early Dec

Did they watch him, did he drive back to the crime scene? Did he wash his car?
Some reports say he started wearing gloves everywhere, to prevent fingerprints.

I think watching him, collecting his trash is what linked him to the crime scene DNA with more clarity- it took time for those tests to come back

Yes they likely had other POIs that were running into dead ends
Agree, likely about the 23rd

JMO

Did they collect the coffee cups he started bringing to class?

<moo>

 

[Stephen2022]

I'd guess his DNA was there from cutting himself. Stabbing is a very bloody mess and the knife gets slippery. When the killer continues to stab, his hand slips down the knife and will slice his hand.

Yes and DNA could have also been under nails of deceased or BK sweat or touch transfer to victims clothes or sheets. IMO dna entered into family dna data bases which gave LE hit as to parent or sibling and they went down family tree and found BK who matched profile. Then IMO they got probably cause search warrant went to his washington state apt gathered dna and got a match to killer. Then they got the no knock arrest warrant to go to PA and get him. Just IMO

 

[Sassafrass]

She made such a point about how the data collected would not be able to be found anywhere. As in, “nope, never saw the survey answers. No record exists. Don’t ask me.”
I pored over my data with my advisor. Over and over again. MOO.

Starting to think there wasn't much data, if any.

We know who the accused is. He has the presumption of innocence: a fact that far too many are forgetting.

That applies in courts of law, not public opinion.

Shes been teaching for 10 years so I think she would have a good grasp on if a student was smart or not MOO

She's been employed with DeSales for 7 years (since 2015). She is 33 and lists no other employment experience publicly, so she must be counting her part-time teaching experience while still in school. DeSales accepts 100% of the applicants to its online criminal justice graduate program. Applicants don't have to take GREs or provide letters of recommendation. It has an expert opinion score (assessed and weighed 20% as a factor in rankings by US News) of 1.7/5 (though overall ranked #27 out of 81 nationally). They have 20 students a year in the whole grad program, so that's a max of 140 she could have taught at DeSales. Not sure BCK has a lot of competition to be considered a standout student in her experience.

 

[10ofRods]

BBM. But what are you basing that on? I haven't seen anything that suggests that so it just seems like a very random assumption about something that is most likely very innocent.

MOO.

For me, it's just an intuition. I have no rational basis for believing that BCK's parents were more than delighted to finally have him launch and be out of the house. Even before he was caught, I theorized that he was not an easy person to be around. Not for anyone, not even his parents.

IME, there are some students who have problems with social intelligence, which is another part of why my mind goes there. These students literally need their parents' help to do many things that others do on their own. A drive across the country isn't that challenging, of course, so perhaps maybe they did just want father-son time (I wonder how that went, under these circumstances??)

I have students whose parents would come in and try to join a ZOOM classroom meeting (or just come in and interfere with the class in other ways). The student in question was always a challenging student in their own right (improperly dressed on ZOOM, improperly engaged in distracting activities, asking inappropriate questions, etc). One time a mom came in to put a sweater on her daughter, who began fussing and whining at her mom. That led to an immediate shut down of that student's mic - not just that day, but for all future days. So, she had to raise her little virtual hand to talk (and then would say the inappropriate or silly things).

These were undergrads (mostly).

 

[Past Mortem]

No doubt this has been discussed numerous times, at least early on…

I know LE came out and said the stabbing of Travis and Jamilyn Juetten in Oregon in 2021 was unrelated, but I still can’t shake the possibility that it was BK. Whoever did it broke in on the 13th and stabbed a couple as they slept leaving 1 person in the house untouched all at 3am.

When applying hindsight to the period between the students murder in Moscow to the arrest of BK, it seems like LE carefully constructed the publics image of the case as to not tip off BK that he was suspected… the incorrect year Elantra (if that was indeed intentional), the comment it was targeted (I think LE were following Bk so closely that they had no fear he could re-offend under their watch), saying repeatedly they had no suspects, specifically stating they had “22,000 2013-14 Elantras to look it” (wrong year plus that’s a LOT, possibly to make BK think they have all those to go through and he’s not even going to be in that batch), the mysteriously leaked CCTV from the CC only days prior to the arrest (was BK becoming restless?) and then finally LE’s comments regarding the Oregon murders being unrelated.

Could the statement from LE that the murders are unrelated have been a purposely crafted ruse to make BK think they were way off the mark? If he knew that LE had linked the 2 he would surely have known the game was up.

All of the above is MOO and pure speculation.

 

[YepperBepper]

<modsnip> She had a close academic relationship and friendship with BTK.

Yes. I definitely found it of interest. Additionally, I wonder if BK ever ended up contacting BTK....via that "survey" with coordination with this Professor.

(I followed a lot of cases. I've read a lot of serial killer books. I will never quite recover from watching/listening to BTK detail his crimes in court, especially the mass murder he committed. It was chilling. )

Imho

 

[rahod1]

BBM. But what are you basing that on? I haven't seen anything that suggests that so it just seems like a very random assumption about something that is most likely very innocent.

MOO.

It's not a matter of being an *innocent* gesture by the father. I was talking about the DYNAMICS here seem to point BK *calling the shots*. MOO...so not based on any facts.
Like I said....MOO. I just don't see the father doing this without BK urging him to do so. To avoid be called out for *bickering*, I'm going to let this subject go.

 

[tstephens1981]

If I had to guess… (IMO/MOO)

BK asked/insisted his father accompany him on the drive home by suggesting something along the lines of “the car’s acting funny, I need a new one, etc.” Remember, his father is in “maintenance” (per MSM) so possibly mechanically handy as well- if BK was ready to ditch the Hyundai, he could probably get more support from his folks by “demonstrating” something was wrong with it on a long, long cross-country drive.

What boggles my mind is how he was (presumably) able to act normal on that drive. IMO he’s cold-hearted enough to accept that IF/WHEN he is caught (I think he was feeling heat after the Elantra announcement,) he will have completely devastated his family. Sounds like money is somewhat tight- he had to know he’d require a lawyer at some point & there’s no way his family could afford a good one without putting themselves in serious financial jeopardy. Even if he thinks he can represent himself, he has to have studied enough cases to realize how poorly that generally turns out- a “good” attorney can likely be reasoned with to represent him to HIS OWN satisfaction. But those lawyers cost $$$, and it doesn’t seem like he was rolling in money at any time… (OTOH, he may allow a string of PD’s in order to claim “ineffective representation” and drag this out indefinitely, esp. if death penalty remains on the table…) He had to realize the publicity alone would be horrendous for them, even if finances were not an issue. Assuming they knew nothing (I personally believe at least his mother knew *of* the case if her public letters regarding Uvalde, abortions, etc. are true- she kinda/sorta follows the news) they will probably be wracked with the guilt of “should we have known/what could we have done”, etc.

MOO, his father may have jumped at the chance to spend that quality time on the road trip when BK suggested the car needed to be repaired/replaced. BK had to know that time together would be extremely uncomfortable (even if his Dad never heard about the crimes), but he was willing to “pay that price” in order to:
A) Get the vehicle out of the area (also probably realized it would be scrutinized/searched if left unattended for however many weeks over the break.)
B) Look less suspicious with another person in the vehicle if recognized.
C) Potentially use father’s CC to eliminate paper trail in case he was being tailed.
D) Have a quasi-alibi if questioned about leaving the area (“I wasn’t fleeing, I needed my Dad to help diagnose my crummy car and get it renewed in PA” or some such excuse.)
E) Confirm he’d done an adequate clean-up job (another set of eyes to point out dirty spots?)

TL,DR: I suspect once the Elantra details were released, he started to feel the heat & realize he was sloppy with his use of his vehicle. He needed it out of the area via a legit explanation- and bonus if he could replace it before returning to WSU. His poor family- I truly DO NOT believe they suspected him whatsoever. If it wasn’t for the Elantra tip-off, I think LE would still be digging (his DNA would likely get him eventually but the car flagged him, IMO.)

All JMO/MOO/speculation about that drive and getting his father involved.

 

[BrownRice]

Sounds like he didn't finish his graduate thesis, and they gave him a pass so he could graduate on time. Seems like issues arose during data collection, perhaps due to a poorly written survey?

JMO, but the school taking the fallout from this won't be IU or even WSU, but the private university. They should learn the phrase 'no comment' and use it, often. MOO

Also, there would be no validity to his results. I could have responded on Reddit and made up answers. I’d think the only way to do this would be through a parole/probation office or thru a jail/prison. This degree sounds like a total scam.

 

[YepperBepper]

It's not just children with very serious disturbances that can behave this way. Many neurodivergent children, autistic,adhd, sensory processing disorder, etc can be triggered to fight or flight responses which end in violent meltdowns because their needs are not being met or even recognised in mainstream schools. These children are not disturbed, but they are not seen or understood and it often results in the coke bottle effect.

Both examples,yours and mine, are extremely sad and I wish society was doing better by now.

MOO.

Very true...and supports are extremely limited, especially as the child gets older. And when they age out at either 18 or 21, families are often on their own.

(I am the mother of two moderately autistic teen boys/men).

 

[Walela]

He probably knew the DeAngelo case. Gloves would also prevent leaving touch DNA on a grocery cart (Joe was caught by the DNA on his car door handle, gotten while he was shopping at Hobby Lobby). BCK probably figured they were onto him and might be surveilling him.

I too think it was the trash outside his parents' home that gave the final and damning result. And, if the FBI had their rapid test van lab nearby, it wouldn't have taken more than a few hours. Maybe overnight

It must have been such an exciting, HIGH FIVE kind of moment for the lab peeps.

Good point with the gloves and touch DNA.
I wonder what criteria LE would use to choose which pieces of trash to test. Was the trash bagged or loose in the can? Multiple persons contributing samples making it more complicated to get a pure sample match with BK. (I may be seeing intentional complications by this suspect when there really aren't any.)
moo

 

[ralyla]

What are everyone's thoughts on if he had an accomplice or not?

Not asking for anyone to speculate who it would be, just if he had one.

IMO, I don't believe he had an accomplice. His question, "have you arrested anyone else?" was to divert attention IMO. I don't believe someone with his profile would involve another person. I'm sensing that he thought he was better than everyone else. However, I just can't grasp how he got away without being seen that night.

 

[Ed Teach]

No doubt this has been discussed numerous times, at least early on…

I know LE came out and said the stabbing of Travis and Jamilyn Juetten in Oregon in 2021 was unrelated, but I still can’t shake the possibility that it was BK. Whoever did it broke in on the 13th and stabbed a couple as they slept leaving 1 person in the house untouched all at 3am.

When applying hindsight to the period between the students murder in Moscow to the arrest of BK, it seems like LE carefully constructed the publics image of the case as to not tip off BK that he was suspected… the incorrect year Elantra (if that was indeed intentional), the comment it was targeted (I think LE were following Bk so closely that they had no fear he could re-offend under their watch), saying repeatedly they had no suspects, specifically stating they had “22,000 2013-14 Elantras to look it” (wrong year plus that’s a LOT, possibly to make BK think they have all those to go through and he’s not even going to be in that batch), the mysteriously leaked CCTV from the CC only days prior to the arrest (was BK becoming restless?) and then finally LE’s comments regarding the Oregon murders being unrelated.

Could the statement from LE that the murders are unrelated have been a purposely crafted ruse to make BK think they were way off the mark? If he knew that LE had linked the 2 he would surely have known the game was up.

All of the above is MOO and pure speculation.

Or maybe BK learned of that murder early on in Washington...heck maybe that's why he picked Washington. Maybe he "copycatted" it. Subterfuge...I'm smarter than you...

Maybe he picked Washington because of the Bundy connection? My opinions.

 

[KMouse]

I'm thinking that if he flew home that would mean he wouldn't have a car available over the winter break so that could mean his parents would have to drive him around. I don't get the feeling he has a lot of friends back home he could get rides from and renting a car these days is super expensive. Maybe that's the reason the dad agreed to drive the car home with him. BUT...was the dad also going to drive the car back to school with him in January and then fly home again? I don't think they have a lot of money (if the bankruptcies are true) so that doesn't make financial sense. In my mind, the possible reasons (PURE SPECULATION AHEAD):

- BK knew he wasn't gonna be going back to school and/or expected to be arrested along the drive?
- BK was using drugs and Dad was worried about him driving?
- BK told him something is wrong with the car and it might not be safe to drive it that far?

What I wonder is whether this is the usual way he gets back and forth from school with his car? If it is not the norm than I would say it's one of the above. MOO

2500 miles is a long drive. Dad may have flown to BK so that they could share the drive. Was this the norm in other years? Was it a ruse to get the car out of the area?

If I had to guess… (IMO/MOO)

BK asked/insisted his father accompany him on the drive home by suggesting something along the lines of “the car’s acting funny, I need a new one, etc.” Remember, his father is in “maintenance” (per MSM) so possibly mechanically handy as well- if BK was ready to ditch the Hyundai, he could probably get more support from his folks by “demonstrating” something was wrong with it on a long, long cross-country drive.

What boggles my mind is how he was (presumably) able to act normal on that drive. IMO he’s cold-hearted enough to accept that IF/WHEN he is caught (I think he was feeling heat after the Elantra announcement,) he will have completely devastated his family. Sounds like money is somewhat tight- he had to know he’d require a lawyer at some point & there’s no way his family could afford a good one without putting themselves in serious financial jeopardy. Even if he thinks he can represent himself, he has to have studied enough cases to realize how poorly that generally turns out- a “good” attorney can likely be reasoned with to represent him to HIS OWN satisfaction. But those lawyers cost $$$, and it doesn’t seem like he was rolling in money at any time… (OTOH, he may allow a string of PD’s in order to claim “ineffective representation” and drag this out indefinitely, esp. if death penalty remains on the table…) He had to realize the publicity alone would be horrendous for them, even if finances were not an issue. Assuming they knew nothing (I personally believe at least his mother knew *of* the case if her public letters regarding Uvalde, abortions, etc. are true- she kinda/sorta follows the news) they will probably be wracked with the guilt of “should we have known/what could we have done”, etc.

MOO, his father may have jumped at the chance to spend that quality time on the road trip when BK suggested the car needed to be repaired/replaced. BK had to know that time together would be extremely uncomfortable (even if his Dad never heard about the crimes), but he was willing to “pay that price” in order to:
A) Get the vehicle out of the area (also probably realized it would be scrutinized/searched if left unattended for however many weeks over the break.)
B) Look less suspicious with another person in the vehicle if recognized.
C) Potentially use father’s CC to eliminate paper trail in case he was being tailed.
D) Have a quasi-alibi if questioned about leaving the area (“I wasn’t fleeing, I needed my Dad to help diagnose my crummy car and get it renewed in PA” or some such excuse.)
E) Confirm he’d done an adequate clean-up job (another set of eyes to point out dirty spots?)

TL,DR: I suspect once the Elantra details were released, he started to feel the heat & realize he was sloppy with his use of his vehicle. He needed it out of the area via a legit explanation- and bonus if he could replace it before returning to WSU. His poor family- I truly DO NOT believe they suspected him whatsoever. If it wasn’t for the Elantra tip-off, I think LE would still be digging (his DNA would likely get him eventually but the car flagged him, IMO.)

All JMO/MOO/speculation about that drive and getting his father involved.

This is the most sensible explanation. I think the heat was turned up and he needed a reason that appeared legit to get that vehicle out of dodge. I would love to know what the plan was when it was time to return home. Drive back? Trade the vehicle in? Get it detailed there? Do a thorough cleaning there so that it wasn't suspicious?

 

[AngTxGal]

Agree. Thank you

P.s. this is my first real time case ever that I am following and I am astonished of how many professionals, smart and nice people are in this community. I am learning every day. Cannot even explain how honored I am to be here..

It is fun talking shop with thinking people, we are all learning from each other.

I still have questions about missing time since High School, I wonder if he followed the trade route before earning his bachelors?

Also, why did he keep the car. Why did he not think through driving to the scene of the crime and that someone may see his car?
If I’m planning a murder…
I don’t drive a white car
I don’t drive that white car at night
I locate Ring doorbell cameras and cctv

JMO

 

[acutename]

Lori Vallow was flown from Hawaii to Idaho starting with a late night commercial flight to LA, if I remember correctly. Then to Idaho. Hopefully they avoid Southwest Airlines. JMO

just curious- does a fugitive require multiple escorts or maybe just one? seems expensive but you need security too.

 

[cottonweaver]

Also, there would be no validity to his results. I could have responded on Reddit and made up answers. I’d think the only way to do this would be through a parole/probation office or thru a jail/prison. This degree sounds like a total scam.

exactly.
said the same when this news item first dropped on twitter.
Reddit is notorious for not verifying registrations.

I haven't used it for many years but I'll still have at least 5 accounts there - all off the same e mail. If I could be motivated to go rummage around for the old passwords, I imagine all those accounts would still be valid.