ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 44

[hafom8840]

If he was, that would explain his looking tired and bringing coffee to class.

Perhaps. Perhaps.

 

[AngTxGal]

Wow. That's a very intriguing piece of news! Thank you. It's the legal proceedings part of cases that are my favorite part. I am always grateful for the locals who hang in to inform us.

And to our wonderful WS lawyers, who will hopefully stick with us as well.



Well, since it seems clear that he drove to 1122 King Road (although I suppose he could have biked - but I doubt it), then I don't see how he didn't get victim DNA inside the car. Which he has probably cleaned 10-20X since then. But that won't get rid of DNA. It's a pesky molecule that can persist for a long time. Bleach doesn't break it up. It might be degraded, but studies of objects put through hot water washes with bleach 10-20X still turn up the original small amount of DNA put on them by experimenters.

He did not attend a college with a program in genetics, any anthropology (much less forensic anthro), or even sociology. I doubt he's ever had a biology class and if so, it wouldn't have gone into genetics at more than a basic level.

Yes, his forensics coursework must have been lacking…

I think there is victim DNA in the car. Once Elantra is processed = death penalty x 4

JMO

 

[CLGM]

Would you post a link to the docket?

Thanks

https://ujsportal.pacourts.us/Repor...-MD-0000682-2022&dnh=hkZjacBEVX+8jzutdrzM4A==

 

[SRWCF]

Not too odd here. Lots of people, especially older folks still wear latex gloves in stores because of Covid. See people all the time wearing them in Walmart.

JMO

I live in Idaho and we are a very conservative state (lots didn't get the vaccine and didn't believe the virus was real) and I still see all types of people (young, old, male, female) at the grocery store who continue to wear masks and gloves. So, it would not be too weird to see someone with gloves on. Much to the suspect's advantage, I might add.

 

[Vegasgrl]

He probably wanted his car when he got home so he could do things. Sure, he could have flown and then used his parents' cars, but if they are working during the day, it would have just left him home all day with no car in a rural area.
He had income. He was a TA. He had loans and other financial aid. He also had a dog, who would have had to be boarded. I really don't see anything sinister in driving the car home. Remember, he didn't think he was going to get caught. He thought he was smarter than cops or even FBI. If he was worried about his car being found, he could have rented a storage space or left it at the airport. He didn't think he would get caught.

Possible. I think he wanted to get rid of the car (or switch cars), so he could return to Washington with another car with PA tag. I think he lied to his parents about the reason. No way was he returning to school with the Elantra. The easiest thing to do would be to switch cars with a family member, so no trade/sale paperwork. Not everyone was following the news about LE looking for the car, but a lot of people watch the news and read tabloids.

 

[archisleuth]

It was not only DNA match to a genetic line they followed. LE were tipped about the car, too. And this excelerated the search significantly.

Lets see the time line, I think it will help to understand what happened and how they got him.

Some dates are not precise, there is an element of guess based on information available at this moment

On 13th of November victims were found killed.

13-15 Nov DNA samples taken from the crime scene and sent to lab for testing;

Around 1st of Dec lab tests starting coming back, we do not know in what order,

let's say around 6-7 of December unidentified DNAs (presumably there were more than 1 unidentified DNA) from the crime scene were detected; delayed reporting because they had to test them more than once before deciding there are no match with victims nor to anyone from their inner circle.

7th Dec - first appeal for the white car

16th Dec BK and his Father arrived at PA and took the car for servicing, confirmed by the mechanic at the garage;

Now, let do some maths in reverse order:

Trip from WA to PA - 2500 miles - took circa 3 days.

So, it is safe to assume that the father and son departed from Pullman on 13th of Dec.

We know that LE/FBI were following them during the trip, meaning that BK was already a POI prior embarking on the trip.

So, it is safe to assume that between 8th of Dec ( the day after the first appeal about white car) and 12th of Dec (BK becomes POI) LE received a tip about BK car and checked where the car was registered, who was the owner, verified this is similar to the car they have been looking for from images and video taken by various cameras en-route to 1122; jmoo that LE had at least a part of numbers/letters of the regisration plate of the car and that part matched the BK car plate.

So, on or around 12th of December BK was already a POI.

Whilst FBI was following BK to his trip to PA, LE excelerated genealogy DNA darabase checks, but as they had the surname of their suspect, the search by surname was much faster, as Kohberger is not very common surname.

They selected all Kohbergers from the database and, most likely than not, ooked also for car registration address match, which may narrowed the searched results even further,

Extracted few database records from genealogy DB in a matter of few days to find the DNA match with KB relative.

So, this explains why DNA match to KB relative was found relatively quickly.

I am sure they also checked other unidentified DNAs from the crime scene, to eliminate any errors, which took few more days as they did not have surnames.

I would say, around 23rd of December LE was confident BK is their man.

A few more details for your timeline:

12/3: 4 FBI added to case (from 44 to 48)
12/8: 5 LE visit the crime scene (one car with WA plates)
12/19: 12 FBI added to case (from 48 to 60)

 

[10ofRods]

Seems thin, but some programs are 30 hours. I've been scoping out some of the online MA degrees to compare credit hours. It doesn't matter now, but I wonder how solid he was on his research design and data gathering going into his PhD?? (Maybe Masters degrees aren't what they used to be??)

IMO, Master's degrees at DeSales are not the same quality as what one would get at almost any public university. JMO. DeSales's website does the bare minimum in terms of providing its accreditations and has none of the qualitative and quantitative data linked to its "About" tab that almost any public university will put up.

The fact that his thesis advisor never met him is troubling. Many people can manage to type intelligently, but there's no substitute for real world contact and interaction with a student.

Then, of course, that same advisor (who was supposed to require him to use data he collected on his own for his thesis, it's a standard thesis requirement) allowed him to opt out because something went wrong at the last minute and so he got to write a non-data based "narrative" of his topic. She approved it. She's young and probably was still optimistic about students in general. This act (that he didn't *really* write a master's thesis is in keeping with my view that he was either a grad student struggling or in poor standing, or one that was facing time off from school for some other reason (or was already in that status - pretending to still be a student in good standing). Presumably, though, he passed his first term's classes in the doctoral program.

I didn't expect, though, that he'd be a student in good standing who willingly and knowingly put himself into the category of struggling non-student. I bet he'll try to take his courses from jail (but only my lunch money - $1).

This is all MY OPINION. And any truly good student will learn tons at any school - but the "bad students" need a very different kind of approach and, well, sometimes some weeding out via something other than an "A" on every project or a thesis that isn't really completed getting accepted. But schools like DeSales need those $24,000 a year payments (via federal student loans - another key indicator of quality, especially if students end up with large debt and low income - a statistic that good universities will put somewhere on their website). Failure to repay student loans by loan takers is a factor in accreditation, but hardly any place gets more than a slap on the hand if they have lots of failure to repay. Many colleges would be mortified at that slap, though.

I see none of the actual accreditation documents or data on DeSales's website. When I am on a hiring committee, I check those kinds of things as quality markers for the university awarding doctorates and master's. Leticia Stauch got her doctorate at a similar type of place, IMO, and got fired from every school job she held (not many, thankfully). IIRC.

 

[Vegasgrl]

The News Nation reporter mentions this timeline of his education
Bachelors. 2020
Masters degree May 2022

If BCK is 28, he graduated from high school on or about 2012, that is ten years ago.
What did he do at age 18-22 prior to beginning his bachelors??

JMO

There are gaps of time when he wasn't a fulltime student or employed fulltime. I was questioning this too.

 

[Copper107]

I bet the defense will ask for a change in venue anyway.

IMO, there is a very good chance a "high profile, Hollywood type" attorney will volunteer to represent him. Or maybe one not so high profile, in order to build his reputation and get his name recognized.

 

[AngTxGal]

Possible. I think he wanted to get rid of the car (or switch cars), so he could return to Washington with another car with PA tag. I think he lied to his parents about the reason. No way was he returning to school with the Elantra. The easiest thing to do would be to switch cars with a family member, so no trade/sale paperwork. Not everyone was following the news about LE looking for the car, but a lot of people watch the news and read tabloids.

I agree, I think his plans were to leave the Elantra in PA and fly back to WA.
The car was the only loose end that likely came to mind
He was not aware he left DNA at the scene

JMO

 

[Sandy007]

I think when the request for the white Elantra went out LE got a tip from some at WSU with the name and description of BCK
WSU Tip made him a POI- sometime early Dec

Did they watch him, did he drive back to the crime scene? Did he wash his car?
Some reports say he started wearing gloves everywhere, to prevent fingerprints.

I think watching him, collecting his trash is what linked him to the crime scene DNA with more clarity- it took time for those tests to come back

Yes they likely had other POIs that were running into dead ends
Agree, likely about the 23rd

JMO

Agree. Thank you

P.s. this is my first real time case ever that I am following and I am astonished of how many professionals, smart and nice people are in this community. I am learning every day. Cannot even explain how honored I am to be here..

 

[wary]

There will be a scientific way to know though IMO. The Blood DNA from V1 will be on V2 and V3 will/should display DNA from V1 and V2. V4 will/should display DNA from all three of the victims. When she said no medical way to know perhaps, IMO, she was saying based on autopsy we can not tell the order. DNA analysis should be able to clarify this and of course it wasn't available at time of autopsy.

Exactly! Autopsy couldn’t tell them the order. They couldn’t differentiate time of death. But DNA analysis would tell them.

 

[cuecard]

IF KG was his target and he was stalking her, it would not take too much effort to find out that X and M were KG's roommates and go from there. If X and M ever treated him badly at the restaurant, then they had to go too, E was collateral damage.

Yeah, I don’t really think anything is off the table right now until we know more info and get confirmation.

 

[Tealgrove]

Yeah, I don't get why he didn't just commit this crime on his own campus where he could have fled on foot. That is, if he was killing just for the sake of killing.

This makes me think he was, in fact, stalking either the house or one (or more) of the victims. I keep thinking why that house, why those kids? I cannot make the connection. Maybe it's some sort of 6 degrees of separation type of thing.

Pretty sure some of my questions will be answered as soon as the court records are unsealed.

MOO

I sense that BK may be an injustice collector and potentially an incel. His online activities are going to be illuminating I am sure.

If he is an incel, that house represents everything that he would despise. Beautiful, popular young women. Well known on campus, easy to follow on social media and stalk online and in person. Everything he may want but can’t have.

I’m truly interested to find out if there was a perceived injustice perpetrated by one of the girls. It may not have but he saw it that way.

I also think ALL the girls in that HOUSE were targeted. I think Ethan was a surprise. I think he panicked when he had to deal with an unanticipated male and ran.

The roommates on the first floor are extremely lucky. This could have been worse than it already is.

Again, MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Did your brother ASK your father to accompany him, or did your father want to do so...maybe to spend more time with him. Now, I admit, we don't know what occurred in this case, but ...MOO...I don't think the father took the initiative to fly and drive back with BK just to spend *quality* time with him. That's where I was coming from (BK *calling the shots*). If I'm wrong on that assumption, then your point is well taken.

BBM. But what are you basing that on? I haven't seen anything that suggests that so it just seems like a very random assumption about something that is most likely very innocent.

MOO.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I can only imagine how traumatic that can be. It's not as uncommon as many people think. If you work in the mental health field, you find there are very young children who have very serious disturbances. It's troubling and sad.

It's not just children with very serious disturbances that can behave this way. Many neurodivergent children, autistic,adhd, sensory processing disorder, etc can be triggered to fight or flight responses which end in violent meltdowns because their needs are not being met or even recognised in mainstream schools. These children are not disturbed, but they are not seen or understood and it often results in the coke bottle effect.

Both examples,yours and mine, are extremely sad and I wish society was doing better by now.

MOO.

 

[Palinsmom]

This murder was not ongoing front page news in Pennsylvania. Unless someone watches particular cable channels, it’s quite possible not to know about this case at all. I’ve been looking at cable for updates and other than CNN, I haven’t seen anythings (I don’t watch Fox). Many people don’t watch a lot of cable news. Moreover, the authorities did not state they were searching for BK’s car; they said Elantra was 2011-2013 and there were THOUSANDS of them. Who would assume that their Ph.D. student in his first semester would commit mass murder? And finally, their son was in Washington; the murders were in Idaho. We now know that there was only a few miles and a few minutes between BK’s school and the crime scene, but how would someone not really following this story know that?

It’s a fundamental error for true crime followers to assume that most people know about even crimes as well publicized as, say, the Murdaugh killings or the Petito killing. The trial of a man accused of a conspiracy murder of 8 family members in Ohio got zero public attention in my area, even though it’s a neighboring state.

Exactly!

I live in Pennsylvania and I know exactly what you mean!!

 

[Teche]

Just thinking. We heard from one aunt, right? For all we know, it was a phase he went through. We've all been speculating he is vegan based on one remark. He may be, he may not be. JMO

If I'm missing confirmation that he is, so sorry.

The aunt is an ex-aunt by marriage.

 

[cottonweaver]

IMO, Master's degrees at DeSales are not the same quality as what one would get at almost any public university. JMO. DeSales's website does the bare minimum in terms of providing its accreditations and has none of the qualitative and quantitative data linked to its "About" tab that almost any public university will put up.

The fact that his thesis advisor never met him is troubling. Many people can manage to type intelligently, but there's no substitute for real world contact and interaction with a student.

Then, of course, that same advisor (who was supposed to require him to use data he collected on his own for his thesis, it's a standard thesis requirement) allowed him to opt out because something went wrong at the last minute and so he got to write a non-data based "narrative" of his topic. She approved it. She's young and probably was still optimistic about students in general. This act (that he didn't *really* write a master's thesis is in keeping with my view that he was either a grad student struggling or in poor standing, or one that was facing time off from school for some other reason (or was already in that status - pretending to still be a student in good standing). Presumably, though, he passed his first term's classes in the doctoral program.

I didn't expect, though, that he'd be a student in good standing who willingly and knowingly put himself into the category of struggling non-student. I bet he'll try to take his courses from jail (but only my lunch money - $1).

This is all MY OPINION. And any truly good student will learn tons at any school - but the "bad students" need a very different kind of approach and, well, sometimes some weeding out via something other than an "A" on every project or a thesis that isn't really completed getting accepted. But schools like DeSales need those $24,000 a year payments (via federal student loans - another key indicator of quality, especially if students end up with large debt and low income - a statistic that good universities will put somewhere on their website). Failure to repay student loans by loan takers is a factor in accreditation, but hardly any place gets more than a slap on the hand if they have lots of failure to repay. Many colleges would be mortified at that slap, though.

I see none of the actual accreditation documents or data on DeSales's website. When I am on a hiring committee, I check those kinds of things as quality markers for the university awarding doctorates and master's.

just re bold, I'd noticed this when it was published

'Jasmine Lander, who graduated this month with a degree in psychology, agreed with other students that Kohberger was a tough grader. Kohberger was the teaching assistant for the 400-level criminal justice class she took in the fall.
She said that toward the end of the semester, the professor for the class indicated he was unhappy with the amount of work Kohberger was doing and had not been responding to emails.
“He didn’t really seem like he wanted to be there, and his effort kind of showed,” Lander said.


The link also goes on to recount that shortly before the murders, he'd been confronted by students ( gender not given) re his harsh grading

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide, Moscow, 13 Nov 2022 ****Media Thread**** NO DISCUSSION

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bryan-kohberger-arrested-suspect-idaho-murders/ 12/30/22 Kohberger appeared in front of a Pennsylvania judge on Friday and was remanded without bond to Monroe County Correctional Facility, where he is awaiting extradition to Idaho, police said. Kohberger is...

www.websleuths.com

 

[AngTxGal]

I live in Idaho and we are a very conservative state (lots didn't get the vaccine and didn't believe the virus was real) and I still see all types of people (young, old, male, female) at the grocery store who continue to wear masks and gloves. So, it would not be too weird to see someone with gloves on. Much to the suspect's advantage, I might add.

True, but all it would take is asking classmates
Did BK wear gloves and a mask to class?
Did he begin to wear gloves to class after Nov 13?

Would his classmates notice? Of course they should, they are Criminology PhD students!!

JMO