ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 46

[IceCreamSundae]

yep

I recall so many members like yourself going through all the full precautions that a methodical perp ought to take but since he's been arrested it feels as if he's not as aware as some of the members on WS.

It's going to be interesting if/when we hear the details of major mistakes he may have made.
( Using the car on it's own feels like a rookie error doesn't it? caught on camera in immediate vicinity.
Not checking on say Ancestry, that he has, perhaps a cousin who is a genealogy superfan & who might have done a DNA test, maybe another error?)
maybe he didn't use a full Tyvek suit & mask either?

I didn't know myself, until this crime, that scientists can do 'glove prints' ( I found there's a whole database here in the UK where every type of glove's latent print is stored, so there'll be equivalent in FBI's labs.) Also, because of the thinness of latex type gloves, fingerprints may pass through the material, transferring the wearer's finger prints onto whatever surface is handled with significant pressure)

And I think, too, he didn’t anticipate more than one person in a bed and the need to fight against some of his victims. So many errors, I’d say.

 

[schooling]

I'll also add that I believe that Washington police has had Bryan under surveillance since around 12/9. And we'll learn that soon.

 

[Snoopster]

To those of you who can keep up with this 'thread'...you are amazing. I am not. I just can't read every post fast enough to post anything that I can confirm hasn't already been said or been debunked.

I would like to say though that the mods on this thread are incredible! When the first 2 pages of a thread are taken up by warnings and clarifications it's very obvious how difficult the job is. Thank you mods for what you do. Viral cases like this are proof of your dedication.

Of course my thoughts continue to be with the victim's family and the community. It's tough enough to lose a loved one, but when it's also followed by a media circus, that must be even more challenging.

Take care everyone, and may 2023 be a kind and safe year for each of you and the people you care about.

 

[otto]

MSN

As he awaits extradition, the daughter of serial killer Dennis Rader — better known as the BTK killer — told NewsNation there’s a chance her father was in touch with Kohberger.

Dr. Katherine Ramsland, a professor at DeSalle University, where Kohberger received a master’s degree in criminology, apparently developed a close relationship with Rader — and Ramsland once taught Kohberger.

“My first reaction was my stomach churned and I literally physically got ill. I’ve been pretty invested in the Idaho case, and I was shocked to see there was a connection to Ramsland and my father,” Kerri Rawson said.

“There is potentially a connection to my father, but we’re going to have to wait and see. Kohberger could have had communication with my father.

Once for speeding, then for following too closely, both times in Indiana? Sounds like he was in a big hurry to leave.

“I just know that they were pulled over in Indiana almost back to back. I believe once for speeding and once for following too closely to a car in front of them,” Monroe County, Pa., attorney Jason LaBar told local Idaho station KTVB on Sunday."
MSN

 

[mo_mom]

Regarding the parents’ bankruptcies and BK’s education path: BK would be able to borrow up to full cost of attendance with private student loans at the MA and even PhD level, even with tuition waiver and a modest stipend.
I’m curious if he may be providing some support to family, especially if they’re coming out of recent bankruptcy—which was also about the same time he would’ve started Masters. Plus his own other expenses, or car, etc.
Although ostensibly for education-related expenses and the student loan would go to school first, any excess is quickly distributed back to the student after all tuition & fees are paid.
IMHO

 

[schooling]

I'll just add one more time before hitting the hay....

If the FBI was likely tailing Bryan across the country. Why did Moscow police go ahead and release the 22,000 Elantra's Press Release? If reports are to be believed that the Familial DNA locked up the probably cause affidavit. We can assume that they were led to Bryan via the Elantra.

LE's timeline does not make sense. Which points to them being aware of Bryan within a few days of the investigation starting. As quickly as the next day IMO. But he was likely already out of town at that point. As I belive he left the day following the murders for Thanksgiving Break.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Idaho murders: Suspect was identified through DNA using genealogy databases, police say

The suspect accused of murdering four University of Idaho students in November was identified through DNA using public genealogy databases.

abcnews.go.com

still surprised that genetic genealogy may have actually played a part all the way back in November!

just a coincidence (I'm in Canada) but the day before he was arrested, I met my friend for a dog walk and she was telling me how Toronto police had contacted her about a case and her dna was matching as a family member. They asked permission to access her account (23 and me i think) to do some more sleuthing. They told her who the alleged perp was and it was a 2nd or 3rd cousin she didn't know and had never met.
But it just goes to show that they can and will use genealogy sites to get their perp.
ETA: typos

 

[kittythehare]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed

I know nothing about him and won't unless he either communicates directly through the judicial system, unlikely but possible, or a far more in depth analysis becomes available.
i just have a sense of nothingness from him.

The media chatter is nonsensical, at best and brings nothing.

There are many possibilities, misogyny being one but there is no evidence of that.
Disturbance on the mental, psychical , physical or spiritual realms may be factors.


I don't know how smart he was technically so I wonder whether he attempted to conceal his online communications and how successful he was at that.
I think a story, if not the story will be there.

I think the crime scene told a big story but that is not public information yet.

All we have is a name, address and a short CV.

And very serious charges.

The WHY of it remains elusive and I suspect it will for a very long time.

I'm often tempted in diagnostic discussions to say 'some people are just plain evil', but that brings me to duality and life is never so simple.
IMO

 

[blackbeary]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1610061528169959427

 

[Snoopster]

just a coincidence (I'm in Canada) but the day before he was arrested, I met my friend for a dog walk and she was telling me how Toronto police had contacted her about a case and her dna was matching as a family member. They asked permission to access her account (23 and me i think) to do some more sleuthing. They told her who the alleged perp was an it was a 2nd or 3rd cousin she didn't know and had never met.
But it just goes to show that they can and will use genealogy sites to get their perp.
ETA: typos

That's interesting about your friend.
I thought they could only use Gedmatch and FTDNA for LE purposes.
I have agreed to LE use of my DNA profile on Gedmatch. If one of my relatives is a serial rapist or muderer, I am fine with them being arrested. They would deserve it.

 

[Alethea]

Sorry, I am signing off but this intrigued me. I am no expert in this area but a layperson who has read and heard a bit. Serious question if you might entertain it----you do not think all serial killers are sociopaths or psychopaths? What is odd is many profilers have disciplinary backgrounds in addition to forensics, cj, or psych--the arts, humanities, philosophy and it does seem like an art and a science although I realize diagnostic criteria is important. If BK does plead guilty then you would also suggest that on his confession alone and the nature of the crime, you/we would jump to stating he is a sociopath or psychopath. I ask because people are doing that now all over and it strikes me as odd but the narcissist, psychopath, and sociopath traits and diagnoses confuse me but people, including "experts" call him a narcissist and it is odd. Thanks and good night!

This is basically the problem of evil. People need to find a mental disorder or they’re faced with the idea that a perfectly healthy person can be evil and commit horrific crimes.

Personally I believe in evil existing but I do think the FMRI studies comparing the brain functions of people deemed psychopaths is interesting. I don’t think it matters much in the legal context but may change how people view responsibility and culpability.

 

[justwannahelp]

So I was flattered to see my theory copied and pasted to Instagram almost word for word. So I thought about it a little more...and decided to put together a quick timeline that helps bolster it. I'm going to distill my notes down to just a few key dates....I'm hesitant to dump the 12 pages I have. sorry for the hacky copy and paste job. I had better intentions. But it is what it is at this point.

For those that don't know about my theory it's that LE knew about Bryan as early as November 15th. And at that point they started investigating him while keeping an eye on others. Once they started getting pretty confident that they had their guy....they stalled until they could get DNA back. Eventually having to turn to Familial.


___________

11/13 - The 4 Students are killed and bodies are discovered around 12pm local time.
In later reporting the Captain of Moscow LE said that by the time he got to the scene on this day. Investigators had already identified cameras in the surrounding area and were procuring the video. This moved a lot more quickly than people originally assumed.

11/14 - The 4 Students are identified.

I'm a believer that they were able to immediately find video of the Elantra leaving the scene or close to it. I also believe that they immediately found the Elantra license plate on video away from the crime scene. And I'm going to stretch and say they likely found video of the Elantra in the area on the days preceding the murder. And this is what led them to believe that the crime was targeted.

11/15 - Police make a seemingly controversial statement.
"The City of Moscow Police Department would like to address community concerns about public safety. We hear you, and we understand your fears. We want you to know that we, like you, have been devastated and distressed by these young lives that were cut short needlessly. We determined early in the investigation that we do not believe there is an ongoing threat for community members. Evidence indicates that this was a targeted attack.
At this time, we have shared every piece of information that we can without compromising the ongoing investigation."

So what made them so confident that this was a targeted attack that they would keep reiterating over and over again that it was? Read on...

11/16 - Video Press Conference
I invite everyone to watch this press conference and listen to what they are saying. Listen to the nuance in their words. It's clear that they think they know who did it but at this point all they had was video. That the person was out there but not a danger. There's more that's carefully crafted.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

11/14-11/18 - WSU Midterms Week
Not sure what the requirements are for advanced degrees. But at most schools mid-term week is dedicated to midterms and professors who have a heart don’t hold classes. soon as you were done with your midterms you could leave for Thanksgiving break. I will be interesting to know when Bryan left town for Thanksgiving.

Was Bryan already back in WA? Taking a flight out on Sunday shortly after the murders? Is that why police were so confident that there was no danger before walking it back since it made no sense.

11/17 - FBI joins Investigation
At the time a lot of people wondered why the FBI joined this investigation so early. I now believe that it was a combination of things. Their suspect was likely on the East Coast and they had no clue when he was coming back. They likely had super early circumstantial evidence, video included, but couldn't place him at the scene. And they needed help processing DNA evidence.

Also worth noting that Captain Lanier later said (on 12/15) that they had already worked the local cameras and as soon as they got more resources (FBI) they expanded and canvased outward.

11/23 - LE reaffirms that this was targetted

https://twitter.com/x/status/1595531840911204401

11/28 - WSU is back in session and we assume Bryan is back in town at this point.

11/30 - Prosecutors vs LE confusion

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fi3JzOZaEAAc9k5?format=jpg&name=small

12/1 - LE tripples down that this was targetted
If anyone doubts that LE has the perp casing the area or has other evidence...this should put it to rest.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1598485202581393408

12/2 - 12/3 - The house receives numerous visits from Detectives after a lull in activity.
Things are picking up again from here. On the 3rd they were seen taking out bags of evidence.

12/5 - LE decide to start removing the victims personal belongings. To happen on 12/7.
It's pretty clear that they are confident at this point. Again, the public interprets this as unusual because no suspect has been named.

12/6 - LE, through a press release requests surveillance video taken from 3am - 6am from a list of 4 geographical areas.
We know from reports that LE had already been looking at videos for over 3 weeks at this point.
They also went out of there way to confidently clear a bunch of people and get rumors under control. Which resulted in some ire from the internet, community and family. This is more evidence pointing to them having their guy.

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24891/12-06-22-Moscow-Homicide-

I believe at this point they had DNA sent out to the lab and they were fairly confident that Bryan was their guy. I think the request for video could have had a much tighter window if they wanted it to. But they didn't want to show their cards. How many times did they tell us - send us all info. we know what we are looking for and we'll filter through it?

I also believe that LE needed video from these areas because they needed to show that the crime scene Elantra was the same Elantra heading back to Bryan's house or the Elantra in whatever picture of the license plate they had. Otherwise the defense team could easily cite the 22,0000 Elantras. The picture/video of the Elantra's license plate was pulled from a place that could only be accessed by going through THESE NEIGHBORHOODS

12/7 - LE announce the Elantra. And they'd like to talk to the occupants.
Bryan Entin reports that LE has stated that the license plate is "Unknown". The car is a 2011-2013.

I believe that LE knew it was a 2015. But didn't want to tip Bryan off that they might have been on to him. I think at this point they were pretty confident that he was their guy...but they had that pesky unresolved DNA kicking around. That likely had to go through a Familial search. The 2011-2013 and 2015 models are similar enough that it wouldn't hinder public tips.

I also think this was their way of asking about Bryan without saying Bryan's name. Hoping that someone he knew or lived with come forward.

He later updates his Tweet with a link to the press release that's solely focused on the Elantra.

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24894/12-07-22-Moscow-Police-Ask-for-Communitys-Help?bidId=

I'm also going to go out on a limb and say they were talking directly to Bryan through these words. Knowing who he was, what he was studying. They were hoping that he would come forward under the guise of helping and staying close to the investigation.

12/8 - Five Plain Clothed LE investigators show up to the crime scene. One of the 2 vehicles had a Washington plate.
This is my biggest indicator so far that this was the point where Bryan went from person of interest to suspect. And they brought in Washington investigators as their suspect lived in another state and they would likely have to arrest him there. They go in. Move around a bit. Come out an hour later. Empty handed. Make of this what you will

https://twitter.com/x/status/1601026919826612224

12/9 - The last day of instruction for the term
Mind you, this is the general calendar. I'm not sure if the PhD program operates on a different schedule or if Bryan had office hours of any sort.

Academic Calendar | Office of the Registrar

If the FBI was planning on tracking someone across the country and coordinating it. This is the window of time where it would have needed to start happening.

The Cross Country Drive
This is where the timeline gets a little fuzzy as reporting is not really lining up. So we're going to guesstimate.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1609668649782067200

12/10 - 12/13 - Likely the Window Where Brian and his Dad set off on their cross country trip
This date is a window. It's essentially a 2 day drive . The last day of classes was on the 9th. If it's a 2 day drive we can assume that they left no later than the 13th as it would be almost impossible for them to be cited in PA a few days later.


12/12 - Statement from Captain Lanier + FBI
“We do have a lot of information. We are specifically keeping that information safe. We are not releasing specific details because we do not want to compromise this investigation. It is what we must do. We owe that to the families,”

"We want more than just an arrest. We want a conviction. We owe that justice to Xana, Kaylee, Madison, and Ethan"

– Moscow Police Capt. Roger Lanier.

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1602363833770991617?s=20&t=NKaeIlIFKGvcNnb8JuDO1w

12/12 - 12/15 - Likely the Window Where Brian and his Dad arrive.
This date is a window. It's a guesstimate based on what we know. If they left the day after classes ended and drove straight through they'd be there as early as the 12th. But we know they couldn't have arrived any later than the 15th.

12/15 - Brian Entin Reports the "22,000 Elantras" and another interesting tidbit

On this day a NewsNation report had an interview where Capt. Lainer where he said on the day of the crime Detectives had already located cameras on residences surrounding the crime scene. I whole heartedly believe that one of those cameras got them the Elantra (but no plate) and shortly thereafter an adjacent camera (as the team expanded their canvas) got them the license plate of the only Elantra heading out of the area.

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1603527019685613568?cxt=HHwWgMDQwYPV78AsAAAA

I whole heartedly 100000000% believe that this 22,000 Elantra message was put out to put Bryan's mind at ease as he headed across the United States of America. That he would rest assured that 22,000 Elantras would take LE a long time to comb through and he could enjoy the Christmas Holiday with his family. Not only that....but LE had blundered (i believe purposely) and misidentified his Elantra and he was likely not even amongst the 22,000.

Arrive in Pennsylvania

12/16 - Brian and his Dad are cited at a Car Service Business

Suspect in the Idaho college student killings returned home for the holidays weeks after the crime. Here's what we know about him | CNN

The man arrested in connection with the November killings of four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed to death attended a nearby university in Washington state and traveled across the country in December to spend the holidays with his parents.

www.cnn.com

____________________

OK. So am I crazy? Maybe....

But if you take anything away from my theory....take away this. The 22,000 Elantra's announcement came during a time when the FBI was already following Bryan around and tracking him. If that's not an indicator that the message was to put Bryan at ease and that LE was deceiving him and the public...I'm not sure what is. They told us over and over again that they would not release information that would compromise the investigation.

Also, we've heard multiple reports that the DNA came back just in time to lock up a probable cause affidavit. So how did they manage to find Bryan without that familial DNA? As the FBI was on to him likely weeks before his arrest. I think this also points to the fact that they identified his car via a license plate pretty early in the investigation.

Lastly, I think the FBI followed him across the country because it was a cross state trip. Federal involvement needed. I think they tailed him 4 days before the murder because on or around 12/27 the DNA was back and they were trying to lock in their probably cause affidavit and this would be an out of state arrest. I think we'll come to learn that local police had been tailing him from the moment he drove into PA.

Former FBI official explains how agents tracked, surveilled Bryan Kohberger

Kohberger's attorney said he plans to fight the charges against him, while law enforcement official said they are confident he was responsible for the murders.

www.newsweek.com

Thanks for reading!

Well done!

What are your thoughts on him being pulled over during the drive?

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I think someone shared this article earlier but I didn't read all of it till now. So apologies for not quoting the article as I have lost it now. Anyway, I am shocked to read this statement.


Most said it never crossed their mind to report a white Elantra.

Students, former classmates speak out on Idaho murder suspect's behavior - KXLY

PULLMAN, Wash. — Bryan Kohberger, a suspect in the murders of four University of Idaho students, lived in an off-campus apartment in Pullman. The parking lot of Kohberger’s complex is always full of cars. Neighbors say there’s a lot of white vehicles, like Hyundai Elantras, the car police were...

www.kxly.com

Somehow people have to understand that you should never assume someone else has reported a tip or crime, and you should never decide if your information is worthy of calling LE on your own. JUST CALL. You will not be a burden, or laughed at, or discarded. I truly hope people will listen to the request for info about Bryan from LE and call. Call about anything, just call.

 

[crhedBngr]

I have driven in Indiana, Illinois and Ohio lots. I will say that unmarked cars come in a number of makes and models. I have seen people hauling it and riding the tail of a car in the fast lane AND it was a cop. Who let them pass and then got all lights on them. Don't know if the people were ticketed but I had not seen a small Chevy as a cruiser but it was..... Just my experience.

Wondering if there were FBI riding with local State Troopers. Could be one more way of tailing them enroute to PA.

They may have stopped them twice to ensure neither BK nor his Father had dangerous weapons handy. Also, maybe to ascertain BK was actually in the car the entire time and didn't disappear.

ETA: I see others thinking along the same lines.

JMVHO.

 

[otto]

This should clear up any debate regarding the suspect's mental health. We know he is a vegan and the jail is accommodating his dietary needs. His temporary lawyer is stipulating that his client is mentally stable and aware of the situation.

Probable cause documents will be released after the suspect appears in court in Idaho. Then we will know more about why he was arrested - the chain of information that resulted in police being confident that they have the right suspect.


“He is mentally aware, he’s aware of the situation, and I think he’s certainly mentally stable and had made no expressions of hurting himself,” LaBar said of the accused murderer. He anticipates Kohberger, who says he is looking forward to being exonerated, will plead not guilty.

Kohberger stands accused of fatally stabbing Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin in the early hours of Nov. 13 in the students’ off-campus Moscow, Idaho, home. No motive has been given for the crime, and police say they have not yet been able to recover the murder weapon.

The probable cause warrant used to justify his arrest won’t be released until he appears in Idaho court, per the state’s laws. LaBar, who is only overseeing Koberger’s extradition and is not part of his defense team, says his client will be in Idaho as soon as Tuesday or Wednesday."
MSN

 

[rescuemom]

<modsnip: removed reference to social media> when I google vegan restaurants using Moscow, the restaurant two of them worked at is the first to come up, and in fact is also among first to come up if I put my location at his school in Washington state. So that is two connections right there.

I'm sure LE has talked to each and every employee of the restaurant. So, if BCK was ever there they will remember him and if he ever drew attention to himself either by being obnoxious or bothering wait staff or patrons, I'm sure they will remember him. If that is true, I'd like to know if he was seen in the restaurant after the murders. It would be like him to offhandedly talk about the 2 girls who used to work there, JMO

 

[Gracenotes]

Thanks @10ofRods insightful as always.

I’m basing my “hardness” factor on my own interpretation of public image of different drugs and happily admit I’m likely incorrect.

I find it fascinating people can function at such levels on drugs such as heroin. The last thing I want to do is give this guy any credit, but to go from a heavy drug (as in type, not amount as I get we don’t know that information) to clean, working and studying is an achievement, regardless of WHERE he got into College - I know there’s a lot of talk about how good/poor the Criminology program is regarded where he was studying, but the fact he was doing it at all is something.

Don’t everyone @ me now either… I already said I don’t want to give him any credit, but I’m recognizing it for what it is IMO.

No, you are absolutely correct. Graduate school is challenging, and he was beginning his doctorate including having a teaching assistantship. Being on a "downer" would make that even more difficult as opposed to using a stimulant.

 

[SteveP]

Once for speeding, then for following too closely, both times in Indiana? Sounds like he was in a big hurry to leave.

“I just know that they were pulled over in Indiana almost back to back. I believe once for speeding and once for following too closely to a car in front of them,” Monroe County, Pa., attorney Jason LaBar told local Idaho station KTVB on Sunday."
MSN

Who knows what to believe anymore. I do not believe there is any fact checking going on in the press covering this anymore.

An Indiana State Police spokesman told Fox News Digital that he could not find evidence of any such encounters.

"We have examined records and do not find any record of any traffic stops or any interactions involving Bryan Kohberger, his father or any Kohberger," Sgt. Glen Fifield said Monday.

Idaho murders suspect pulled over twice on cross-country race home with dad, lawyer claims

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger reportedly sped home across the country before Christmas break, pulled over twice with his dad in the car, lawyer says.

www.foxnews.com

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Yes, fibers or other possibilities of something pertinent to the killer would be possible. But then the prosecution would also have to PRODUCE that source of whatever the DNA was from as well and showing it as an evidenciary exhibit to a jury. In the booking photo the entire body of Kohberger is not visibile either which could also show injury that we can't see in the booking photo. For example, his hands.

What my main point was, is that his face apears pristine under magnification and I contend there would still be some evidence (even though healed or nearly healed) that something had caused a recent mark or injury.

A face is a very vulnerable place to attack if you are in close combat. I believe it would be very likely the girls especially would be attempting to claw his face as they would be flailing around. There would be two purposes--- one of course, to try to deflect the knife, but two, also at the same time trying to injure him to stop the attack or at least cause him a problem that he now has of a possible serious injury to himself.

I don't disagree with anything you said. But IMO it's likely he wore a mask.

 

[justwannahelp]

Apparently, authorities have evidence from data that proves his phone pings match up with several of the victims' phone location pings for weeks before they were allegedly butchered by Bryan. Their phones track together with his for weeks before they die. Bryan was stalking his prey.

He followed them bc he wanted to kill them. He took a knife and broke into their 1122 King Rd House. When they were asleep, he attacked them in such a brutal manner that they probably drew their last breath with the first vicious stab.

Meanwhile, BK went back to class, his work, his life as if things were normal. He harshly graded papers on NOV 27.

We may say, using slang, that he's crazy or call him insane bc he killed 4 healthy young people with a knife but he knew exactly what he was doing before and after their slaughter. He's far from normal. He lacks empathy for others. Possessing proper social skills is a characteristic that will allude him for his entire life but he's not insane.

<modsnip> he is a highly functioning intelligent individual. His scruples are clearly there. He has his masters and was successfully studying for his phd

Explanation of the murders—He’s evil. Period. I am confident justice will be served and he will be punished harshly. No namby pamby pleas….