ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 11

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There are photos that clearly show you can see the back of that house including 2nd and third floor windows and doors from the parking lot of the apartment buildings which are to the left and somewhat behind the house. You can see one here - scroll down to the third photo: Idaho police expanding crime scene at site of college students' murders
OK..You can see them from this view on Google Street View. I'm just saying when someone is using Google to decide whether to "break into a home" or "be a peeping tom" etc, it's hard to see the balconies/screendoor from Google. (Hence it would be a pass) So the perp must have been local and familiar with the house in person/real life.

I'm always checking out things in Google maps...
 

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I have a theory that the perp placed a pillow (or something else) over each victim's face, which would silence or eliminate any screaming. This would allow the perp to move from room to room without alerting the next victim. This could also be why the surviving victims could sleep through the attack. MOO.
The report that some of the victims had defensive wounds leads me to think that they did not sleep through the attacks. I'm thinking they happened too fast for them to react more than maybe putting up their hands to block the killers assault. I think these attacks most likely happened fast. Maybe 10-15 min to kill all 4 of them
 
I don't find it odd. LE would ask the surviving roommates not to talk to anyone except LE about the incident. They do not want their accounts released to the media. JMO.
I agree. And based on what I’ve seen, it seems in my opinion, that these family members likely would tell media anything they were told by the surviving roommates. Which is understandable, but definitely could compromise things.
 
Why does everyone insist the killer must have cut himself? The cases where there are self-injuries involve a knife without a handguard, like a kitchen knife. The Kabar style of knife cops are looking for has a handguard. The Kabar was designed by specialists for US Marines to use in hand-to-hand combat. The leather grip is not likely to become slippery if wet with blood. It is designed to minimize the chance of self-injury. The Marines certainly didn't want their troops having to get their hands sewn up every time they used their Kabars.

They might have a bruise on the heel of their hand from the guard impacting them, but that's about it.
Thank you! I hope more people see this! I have been saying similar. Most people here, and the paid talking heads are acting like this is a butcher knife lol.
 
Being not american, can anyone answer a knife question for me. Would it have to be a pretty quality expensive knife? After seeing the coroner say the wounds were chest area it made me think, a mid range knife would surely break? Is it common for people to have decent level knives or just hunters etc. Where i live its illegal to have any kind of bladed weapon on you in public so its baffling for me

I think the knife could have been mid level quality and higher.

Regarding knives, the difference between mid and high quality knives is often a matter of better "fit and finish" and higher quality steel that allows that knife to keep its edge for a truly long time. Steel used in mid level knives, however, would easily permit such attacks.

As far as say, knives in the US go, ownership is probably statistically down as the nation continues to urbanize. Tradesman, whether urban or rural, still routinely carry knives. So would many ranchers and people just brought up carry one (I am in this group) etc.

But... the knife has been described as a "Ka Bar" or Ka Bar like (USMC fighting knife and more often- a utility tool). Tradesman, hunters, ranchers etc. tend to be very practical about knives as they must actually carry them. Ka Bars of any sort are heavy, cumbersome and have way more blade needed for hunting or tradesmen type tasks.

As a result, I strongly suspect the knife is not a "carry / use" knife. Rather, I think it was more likely purchased by a collector for its historical association, a wanna'be "Rambo" wanting something "tough", or somebody with characteristics of both groups.
 
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I don't find it odd. LE would ask the surviving roommates not to talk to anyone except LE about the incident. They do not want their accounts released to the media. JMO.

They will have been strongly advised by police not to discuss information with anyone else for fear they taint the investigation.

They are likely recieving counselling and likely quite fearful that as potential witnesses they are at risk.
 
OK..You can see them from this view on Google Street View. I'm just saying when someone is using Google to decide whether to "break into a home" or "be a peeping tom" etc, it's hard to see the balconies/screendoor from Google. (Hence it would be a pass) So the perp must have been local and familiar with the house in person/real life.

I'm always checking out things in Google maps...
Not necessarily. They only need to be a psychopath. For instance, when Dennis Rader murdered the Otero family, he had never been in the home before. He was surprised when he entered the home and found the kids and the husband home.
 
I would imagine police have advised the roommates and any other people over not to speak out to anyone else about what they saw/heard.They wouldn't want it out in public details only the killer would know.
I agree. I think it’s most likely that this is the case. It also may be that though Kaylee and Maddie had a lifelong friendship, the other housemates were more recently acquainted, so families may not know them, at least as well. The families also may be at capacity managing the awfulness of what has happened; the energy that conversation would require may be more than they have available.
 
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That’s what makes me think it’s someone in those apartments back there, or someone that could physically see into the house. Perhaps they got obsessive over watching the roommates and when K moved away they lost their play thing. Seeing her back in the house made them jump at the opportunity bc clearly they’re deranged. That could explain the targeted comment.

Also, the photo of the patio doors with the chairs shoved against so they can’t be opened, is that the top floor? Is there any chance the perp entered the top floor patio doors and exited the lower patio doors?
Yeah...someone likely had a vantage point of sorts...
 
The report that some of the victims had defensive wounds leads me to think that they did not sleep through the attacks. I'm thinking they happened too fast for them to react more than maybe putting up their hands to block the killers assault. I think these attacks most likely happened fast. Maybe 10-15 min to kill all 4 of them

Sure, but we do not know where the defensive wounds are. The perp could have easily placed something over the victim's faces to silence them, and they woke up during the attack and tried to protect themselves with their arms and hands. MOO.
 
Does not gibe with the "young, creepy loner" profile I have heard ex-FBI personnel talk
I always take these paid talking heads comments, no matter their expertise in a field ,
with a grain of salt. They are paid to get people to watch or click. The more dramatic the better for views.
Take into account that most, if not all of them,know less and have spent less time looking at any given case that they are speaking on then the average person in this thread, and I toss another grain of salt on the pile.
 
The mapped location was correct. 1122 King Rd. may be the correct address, but it "fronts" on Queen.
Yep. If you get on google you can "drive' by an get a few different view angles.
 
Interview with Kaylee's Dad, Sister and Brother.

Reporter - How you guys doing?.

Dad - It's not real yet, I'm a bit in denial. I'm hoping for justice, that's why I'm trying to switch myself into that mode, to trying to find justice, that's where I'm at.

Reporter - I get it, S, A?.

Brother - I just know my sister, she was a hard worker and just sitting in my bed and crying myself to sleep isn't going to do her any justice, and that's not what she'd want me to do. She'd want me to stay active and doing what I can to spread her message and hope that we can find this suspect or suspects and that's how I feel.

Reporter - I get it, I get it. She's got a great smile, we'll keep showing that picture. I know your family's been frustrated with the investigation so far. Understandably so. Here we are a week out and really not much information about this, does not appear to be a suspect. Tell me, A, what specifically you've been frustrated with?. Because you did your own work here, for instance, you found video of the food truck, for example, where two of the victims were seen the same night as this killing.

Sister - Yeah, I would say I think that, obviously, this is extremely person for us and we treated it that way from the very get go. I know how valuable those first 48, 72 hrs. are and I can only hope that the police also know how valuable that is, and that they have a lot of information there that just isn't public right now. I will say the one lingering frustration I have, is the timeline. I know it's semantics but my sister's got home at 1:56, it wasn't 1:45. I know it might not seem significant but when we're looking for camera, when we're looking for dash footage, when we're looking for any of those things, I do feel that it is valuable and they did get home at 1:56, it was not 1:45.

Reporter - Right, there's one detail there. Kaylee's mother has said she believes that the suspect, the killer, is someone Kaylee knew very well and that the killer might even be at the vigil. Remarkable, I wonder, S, do you share that view?

Dad - It's speculation. My daughter was very popular. It seemed like everyone that I talked to said she knew everyone. They had parties, they were college kids. They were about to graduate. Somebody could've partied in the house and got an idea or had the confidence to pull that off.

Reporter - This question of a stalker and I'm very conscious with this story of how many rumours have been circulating and a lot of those rumours turn out not to be true but, S, this discussion of the possibility she may have had a stalker - have police been able to stand that up or not?. They seem to be knocking that down.

Sister - Yeah, it seems to be knocked down. Obviously, any of that information would be new to us as well. Kaylee facetimed me, she didn't call of text, she facetimed me for literally hours, almost every single day. And she was extremely cautious, she was very vigilant. I think that if she really would've noticed something, then she would have said it to us. She wasn't scared for us to be involved in her life in any capacity like that.

Reporter - I know you're frustrated with how much and how information developments in the investigation are being shared with the public. Are they sharing anything with you that they're not sharing publicly, in light of the fact that this was your sister, this was your daughter?.

Dad - I'm not getting anything. They're not sharing much with me. I know that there's a separation in duties there. They do have the FBI now, so I don't know how much the individuals that I'm talking with, which are the local, are actually exercising their different jurisdictions. I think they might not know a lot because they have briefings and if they haven't had a briefing they probably don't know exactly what's going on.

Reporter - Are they contacting you at all?. Are they keeping you updated, more so than they are than on the website or with these press briefings?

Dad - To be honest, they're not. Yesterday, I asked about the stalker question and they couldn't confirm anything and then today I hear they're reaching out to the community saying that there's a stalker involved. So, I don't know what to make of that.

Brother - They're just so vague with everything that they say and then they slowly peel back layer into layer until you find the real story. It all started with a sharp edged weapon. What was the use in telling the community that a sharp edged weapon was used, instead of just coming out and telling us that it was a knife from the beginning?. I don't understand the purpose of being so vague. You're not holding the integrity of the case together by not telling anybody, anything.

Reporter - I understand you have frustrations for how police and investigators have handled the crime scene. What are those frustrations specifically?.

Dad - They expanded it and there was volunteers that walked around and they disclosed that they were looking and found different things. So, you know, they did share with me that that may have more to do with keeping cameras out than it actually does with evidence gathering. So, I hope that that is indeed the case, because it would be pretty disheartening, a week later, to know that they didn't have the right crime scene.

Reporter - The mother of one of the surviving roommates, reminding our viewers, there were two roommates who were upstairs and survived this, told a reporter that those roommates heard something, heard something that night. Have you been told?. Have you heard from sharing with other relatives of the other victims what that was exactly?.

Sister - No, I would say for us that, we did hear those rumours but, right now, we can only leave it at that. None of that has ever been confirmed to us.

Brother - We haven't spoken to the roommates, surviving roommates. And they were downstairs, just to clarify that for you, sir.

Reporter - Ok, downstairs right?. On a different floor from where, it appears, where the murders took place. One consistent thing, and granted there's been some changes as you know, in how the police have described this, one consistent descriptor has been that the attack was targeted. Do you know if police believe one person in the house was the target of this attack or all four?.

Dad - I've been told it's one, but then again there's the vagueness. It's like purposefully vague, I'm hoping, but it confuses everyone because nobody knows what that really means. Other than, maybe, somebody had a different kind of attack, footprint. So, I feel like we just want some more... we all want to play a part in helping and we can't play a part if we don't have any real substantial information to work from.

Reporter - Yeah, I get it, you want to help. I mean, A, you found video that has been helpful in this investigation. I'm sure you do want to help. Has anyone indicated to you that if it was indeed one person targeted - Was Kaylee the target?. Has anybody shared that with you?.

Sister - They won't confirm who that was to us.

Dad - I heard the rumours that that's the case, but it's just a rumour at this point.

Brother - Tons and tons of rumours but nothing from the police.

Sister - And honestly, I think a lot of those rumours stem from all of the vagueness and it's human nature to want answers. It's human nature to, kind of, put forth a theory so that it can.. you can even comprehend it in your brain and so I think that's how we're getting some of these really, really off the wall theories and some of these theories like - Kaylee had a stalker that even we're sitting here, scratching our heads saying 'no, it couldn't be'. If it was it would be news to us.

Reporter - I am sure it is frustrating. Your family has been very outspoken in support of J, he's Kaylee's ex-boyfriend and on the Moscow Police website though, he is not listed, notably, as someone who's been cleared in the investigation. To your knowledge, is that significant?.

Sister - No. I don't personally think so, because I think that there's the entire rest of the world that's also not on that list of people who've been cleared, including Maddie's boyfriend, including any associates of Xana or Ethan, that might not be involved. I don't find that significant at all.

Reporter - And there were a number of phone calls to him that night, and you say that would have been typical behaviour for Kaylee, that she often would call friends, folks, you know, for a whole bunch of things.

Sister - At any time, yeah, multiple times until I would pick up at 3 am. and be like 'Kaylee, what?'.

Dad - And some of the last footage of her, at that food truck, she's on her phone 24/7 filming the whole thing. So, she lived on that phone.

Reporter - It sounds like you're saying here that the delays in sharing Information, the delays in.. well frankly, making more progress on the investigation mean the police have lost their best opportunity, right?. I think, A, you were saying that those early hours and days are key. That's when you can make real progress. Do you believe that they've missed their best chance here or may have?.

Brother - Not only is that not a matter of opinion, that's a matter of fact. If you look statistically at homicide cases, those first ten days are so incredibly important in finding a suspect. They determine, almost nine out of 10 times, I believe it was, (inaudible) they find a suspect. So yeah, that's not very encouraging to hear that they want to cast this wide net of suspects now and people we know have no involvement.

(video cuts off abruptly)
 
It would be more helpful if key persons were interviewed by reputable sources. Always hard to tell with Daily Mail if there is an agenda.
So far it looks like this Joe guy didn’t talk to any other source- but did go to LE.
I’ve seen other posters here that claim the time of glances on the GrubTruckers video was too long- I’m not seeing anything he did or said as sus, nor do I consider intoxicated young guys googling young women in public as sus. My son is college age and he likely looks at what girls are willing to show off- my daughter also looks at what guys are willing to show off. That doesn’t make them creeps, they aren’t staring or following or stalking, they are single and looking, they are human.
IMO
They aren’t all single
 

This profiler believes a psychopathic killer is responsible, and the community is at risk.
The killer would have to be a psychopath. You can't kill four people with a knife, at close range, systematically, and not be a psychopath. But there are different types of psychopaths. For instance, psychopaths and sociopaths are scattered throughout the corporate world and government and are highly successful.
 
There could be another angle. Maybe not secretly obsessed with one of them, but RAGING mad at one of them. So mad, he didn’t care who else was collateral damage. And so mad he was sloppy because it truly was not a calculated, well thought out murder.
I, too, see this as a RAGE killing. But, didn't LE allude that this may have been a crime of passion killing. But, aren't the two the same thing? They kind of go hand in hand.

Sort of like Jodi Arias..her raging/CofP killing of Travis.

How do you distinguish between the 2 in a case like this?
 
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