ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 13

[Finders_Keepers]

Had a look at the map and it actually paints a very very interesting picture.

Firstly, You can see why LE think this was targeted. There has been some speculation of a stranger killing. If it was someone who was a stranger to the victims I don’t for one moment think it was chance. This isn’t someone who has driven around looking for a victim that evening imho. If you look at King street/Queen street it’s a dead end. There is nothing further on but flats and car parks. It’s not a thoroughfare, either for cars or humans. You have to go out of your way to get to it. If someone was driving around looking for a victim that night I think the police would be more interested in CCTV etc earlier in the evening anyway. But I don’t see anyone looking for a random victim ending up there. That would suggest someone local or someone who had perhaps tracked the victims location by social media. Again I can’t see any way that someone set out that night to find victims and ends up down a fairly obscure side road and/or LE wouldn’t be interested in suspicious individuals or CCTV earlier in the evening if they think the house and victims were attacked purely by chance.

Secondly the places they are looking for video footage are actually very telling. They appear to only be interested in one street North and all it does is take someone East to the 95. They don’t appear to be interested in anything North of Taylor Avenue towards the city or the university.

South they are interested essentially in someone getting through the residential areas to Palouse River Drive. This only leads in one direction that they appear to be interested in and that’s to South 95.

That’s validated by the final area they are interested in which is footage/CCTV of 95 South down to block 2700 (Thanks to whoever summarised where they are looking for public help)

The final area they are interested in is West to the botanical gardens and Arboretum. But when you look at a map that essentially leads… nowhere. And interestingly they haven’t asked for anything North of it, which you would need to take to go past the golf course and back towards the university campus. They don’t seem to be asking for any footage from around there.

What can we deduce from this? Well reading between the lines LE have pretty much telegraphed there the route they believe the perpetrator has taken IMHO. It’s East along one of the main thoroughfares: Taylor Avenue or Palouse River Drive and then Southbound away from the city.

Putting two and two together that’s not a route you take on foot. The only reason I can see why they are interested in that happened West is maybe they think someone parked a getaway vehicle there. Again there is no value in heading West unless you then head North across the golf course towards campus and that isn’t an area they appear to be interested in. Even if they had all CCTV from the uni I think they would still be requesting any private evidence from the public.

Secondly I would suggest from this they think a vehicle was used to leave the scene. Again it’s not something that really leads anywhere and once you get on the 95 South past 2700 it certainly doesn’t lead anywhere by foot. They don’t appear to be asking for anything West on Sands road south of the botanical gardens which would be the other Southbound exit away from the area towards Washington State. But it looks very rural.

I hadn’t really looked at it originally but actually it seems quite indicative from what LE are asking for in terms of how someone may have left the scene. Does that lean more towards a non student/out of Townes being the route they are interested in.

 

[pamelado2]

I agree. Unless the dog slept with whomever went to bed first. Could K have assumed that Murphy was asleep with the downstairs roommates? And she never looked for him? So the calls had nothing to do with the dog? And the dog had been let out of the house by the killer who was already inside, waiting for the last two to go to bed?

It seems more logical that the dog was scared and didn't bark. My friend had a rescue dog like that - scared of everything and would hide rather than confront. Or he could be like my sister's dog, if he gets out the door he is gone like a shot and they have to chase him down. I wonder if he would ever come back on his own after he got tired of running.

 

[Spb1213]

The way the houses three levels are staggered the rooms don’t appear to be on topof one another.


Jmo

X bedroom directly above one of the ground floor bedrooms (all part of the original house before the addition).

 

[Celt1997]

Going with a stranger killing (thrill kill some have said): there are 3 large construction sites in town right now (that I know of). 1. A large building for Schweitzer engineering labs, 2. Expansion on hwy 95 and 3. A huge Site development area possibly for new housing construction. These have brought folks to town that do not live around here. All three sites are practically touching the south end of the neighborhood area police outlined as the search area.

Would be interesting to see if any "long term" housing was rented in the nearby apartments for any of the Contractors on-site. I have a brother-in-law who does Contracting and they sometimes have to live in apartments/hotels for a few months when on a job.

 

[PorcelainCoveredInTinFoil]

Off the top of my head, the MacDonald murders in NC in 1970, but I’m sure there have been a few since then.

While only some of your boxes get checked by the following name, I'll say Jesse Dodson/Lester Street Murders/Memphis. Not all boxes checked as I think drugs were involved and took less than two weeks to find him. Gun against six (five?) adult and knife against two or three minors - some minors testified against JD.

Butch DeFeo/Amityville -five or six of his family members by gun. But, I'm of the belief he had help which was NOT Dawn Defeo.

John List (I think that was his name). Details totally escape me right now - aside from I think he's the one where money was the triggering factor although they had a HUGE Tiffany window which, if sold, could have spared them from them from financial woes. Again, most details escape me so I don't even know for certain if he was ever found. Age-progressed molds of his face popping up on Unsolved Mysteries or AMW w Walsh are popping up in my brain trying to recall that case.

I was also responding to the post you responded to with the list of similarities. Sorry in advance.for not responding to the right, specific post - I don't know how to fix it.

All jmo and speculation.

 

[mayhem911]

I know a friendly dog who never barks let's not necessarily read too much into it.

 

[jcamh]

Why though? I can see all kinds of reasons they haven't released that that have nothing to do with skillful investigation. Just two that come immediately to mind: the dog was located right away and they're not bogged down in inconsequential details and have been too busy to realize this is an issue with a minority of people following the case. Another is that the dog's location wasn't known right away for whatever reason and they don't yet know if that plays a part in the investigation so they want to keep it close to the vest.

Until we know more, I don't think we can say that small detail correlates with their investigative competence.

All MOO.

If the dog had been in the house at the time of the murders, the dog would likely be covered in blood. He would have trekked through it, had paw prints all over the house, he would have licked the people's faces. I think the dog was let out as the perp was coming in. That would prevent the dog from barking, fighting back, making noise, etc.

 

[SkyBoomer]

Gee family murders.

I’d not heard of this ! Awful!

 

[AngTxGal]

Moo...why is the dog important? It is not a guard breed..it would of hid or wandered away if door left open. What is important..is stabby person..left handed or right handed. Stabbing is usually not thought out. But this person succeeded in killing 4 people efficiently..that needs alot of muscle,energy and knowledge. I am very knife friendly, hunting, farming etc. But i would need to google to deal with humans..or be military..but military does not teach that to all. Moo

just a thought...if LE found the dog on the night of the incident, that could mean that the dog may have been left out much earlier than was first believed and before murders and was wandering around thus generating a report of a stray dog. Said stray dog may have been picked up and taken to animal control to be processed. Chip or no chip. If the dog was chipped the owner(s)..KG and/or bf J... did they both own the dog or both listed as contacts?? It would take some time for the news and location of the murders to be connected to a stray dog incident. The responsible person, contacted the next day could be Ks bf J but info of that just kept out of the news, not necessary to know who. When KG and MM made the many calls to J neither would know where the dog was yet.

My point is that the killer may have been in house earlier than first thought. If either of the 2 survivors were the target, arriving around 1am, the killer would have done the deed and left. If E or X were the target, they arriving home next, the killer would have done the deed and left, leaving 4 victims. MM and KG got home around 2am and started calling J and killer did not move on them until after the phone calls and they had settled in for the night. All speculation and JMO.

YES! so while I agree that the focus is on the ‘stabby person’ I think knowing the timeline of Murphy helps pin down when the killer may have entered the house!

We do not know when everyone went out for the evening they may have gone to dinner before going to parties and bars?
What we’ve been told is when they arrived at the party or bar.
If they did go to dinner or something that leaves a LOT more time for the house to be dark and possibility that someone could enter the home and be inside.

K and M arrive at bar about 10PM, X and E to sorority event then frat party 8 or 9PM? If the survivors were not at home. They began arriving home between 1-2AM. that is three to four hours that the house was dark.

Murphy may have been let out, it was cold, someone called PD, he went to shelter.

FACT PD Update says that the dog was located at the residence “on the night of the incident” and taken to the Animal Shelter.

We don’t know if it was known which house Murphy belonged to.

FACT We do know 911 was called right before noon Nov 13.

If PD thinks someone got into the home before midnight, then that is the “night of the incident“ is Nov 12, and not Nov 13 3AM when the murders took place.

If Murphy was outside and picked up Nov 12, he was not in the house when the murders took place, the fact that he was not killed is not an issue, he did not track blood everywhere, and now we know how he got to the shelter.

The calls to J may have been because a voicemail was left by the Animal Shelter. A phone number on his tag or chip led to K’s cell. If Murphy had been picked up outside the house the girls would have wondered how he got out, called J, and went to sleep knowing he was at the shelter but it was closed so they would have to get him the next day.

FACT PD Log Nov 13 5:30 says someone called them for assistance in locating a dog at the shelter. My guess is this is when Murphy was picked up by K’s family or J.

JMO- some facts and lots of speculation

 

[layer]

John List (I think that was his name). Details totally escape me right now - aside from I think he's the one where money was the triggering factor although they had a HUGE Tiffany window which, if sold, could have spared them from them from financial woes. Again, most details escape me so I don't even know for certain if he was ever found.

He was found!
But as to similarities, they grow even scarcer when you add in untouched survivors in the same house.

 

[Sillybilly]

My post was removed because the quoted post got removed so reposting:

I was curious about the neighbourhood and the surrounding houses and wanted to know what peoples experience was living there, so I looked up reviews from people currently renting these apartments.

One or two of these caught my eye.

Unsure if I am able to post here if someone can please clarify?

Sorry, comments by the general public are not allowed.

 

[Petunia83]

We were wondering what the Investigators were looking at in Post #21. I went onto Google maps. I squared the window the Investigator was looking out of (reference Post #21) and came up with one possibility (circled in red):


View attachment 382750

This is only one possibility, and JMVHO.

Another is the building directly across the street:


View attachment 382751

Again, JMVHO.

Apologies for the repeated edits.

I was also thinking about that… My first thought was that he was looking at the window lock… I seem to recall law-enforcement stating that the victims had been found in two bedrooms only… it looks like this window he is looking out of is from Madison’s room? Which is where her and Kaylee were sleeping? I have wondered why on earth there wasn’t a ton of blood seen near the sliding glass door downstairs (if we’re assuming the killer exited there)… I also wondered why surviving roommates/friends who called 911 would have reported unconscious person, if there was a massive amount of blood in the hallway and on the stairs (again, assuming that the killer came back downstairs from the third floor, to the second floor, to exit through the sliding glass doors)… maybe they reported an unconscious person because the killer actually left through that window in this photo, and jumped from the deck… seems like it could at least be a possibility… otherwise, I would imagine there would be blood all over the place and the surviving roommates would’ve called 911 immediately, rather than calling friends over first… and would’ve reported a massive amount of blood rather than “an unconscious person”… just a thought… I do not understand why the police will explain this whole weird “unconscious person” thing…

 

[BrownRice]

Iirc, the 911 operator asked the caller if the person who the caller thought had passed out was conscious and the caller said no. I think that is where unconscious came from. Just verbiage for dispatch of EMS and LE, not a fact of the condition of the person. Also, wasn't it reported that a body was blocking a door so that the door could not be opened fully or wakened which would prompt the caller to think they just had passed out.

I didn’t think anything from the 911 call had been released. My understanding is everybody is surmising the 911 operator used the unconscious word.

 

[scapa]

Didn’t they get DNA from dozens of men questioned in the Scarborough Rapist case, including from Paul Bernardo? I don’t think it was required, though. I imagine most were willing to submit to clear themselves.

I wasn't asked for DNA, but I was pulled over on multiple occasions during that case, as a young adult travelling between downtown TO and sports events out in Boro.

It was pretty freaky, and my dad, a judge, started coming with me.

I can't see it being done in Idaho, and even if it were, can envision all sorts of complications in terms of chain of evidence, amendment challenges, etc,

 

[Barry]

It would be useful to know the personality of the dog, and where he was found. Depending on the personality, it could indicate the perp was definitely very familiar with the house, and the specifically the dog. I'm wondering if the perp got into the house earlier and actually took the dog some distance away. Without knowing about the dog and where it was found, it's hard to say.

LE may know something about the dogs personality, and if is not a dog that responds well to strangers, the perp may have made a mistake.

MOO

 

[BrownRice]

A lot of people just shove this off as he is probably looking at the lock. I thought the same at first. But if you look at the window sill, there's a bunch of items that would not have been there had someone came in through that window where an investigator would need to inspect a lock. He does seem to be looking for sight lines.

I thought he was looking at another house’s windows.

 

[tokyorose]

I thought he was looking at another house’s windows.

I agree. I think they are getting close. MOO. I think something they found yesterday led them back to the home last night for a very specific reason.

 

[HawkFan]

wouldn't the survivors wake up? One of the 1st fl bedrooms is directly below E and X.

Not necessarily, if they were “passed out” and sleeping heavily from being out partying earlier that night. I believe it was reported that the 2 girls on the 1st floor woke up late the next morning, which is typical for college kids. If they did hear something they most likely would’ve called 911 in the 3 to 4 AM timeframe. I believe that odd layout of the house most likely contributed to them not hearing anything also.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I agree. I think they are getting close. MOO. I think something they found yesterday led them back to the home last night for a very specific reason.

I sure hope you're right!

 

[AngTxGal]

Going with a stranger killing (thrill kill some have said): there are 3 large construction sites in town right now (that I know of). 1. A large building for Schweitzer engineering labs, 2. Expansion on hwy 95 and 3. A huge Site development area possibly for new housing construction. These have brought folks to town that do not live around here. All three sites are practically touching the south end of the neighborhood area police outlined as the search area.

That is very interesting- anyone from boss contractor down to day laborers. They have traveled for work so staying in a hotel alone. Not going home to a family. No one is noticing when they come and go or what their clothes look like.
And- after a hard day of work they may go to a bar.

JMO