ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 13

[Petunia83]

I don't understand why LE never cordoned off the Queen road parking just next to the victim's house. May be the prep(s) discarded their cars after the crime but now would have drive it back or it is still there

IMO that area offers the best glimpse of what happening inside the house
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Whether the prep was local or outsider, the prep(s) should have observed what's happening inside sitting inside their parked car often. There should be others who could have seen some person(s) sit in their car in this blind-spot area more often before the crime.

I say blind spot because it is well hidden in the area just before directly back of the victims house. The only view to that area could be apartments directly across from victims house (on taylor) or on backside of 500 Queen Rd Apartment. Please Note 500 Queen Rd doesn't have windows directly to see the victims house but at an angle View attachment 382762
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Also from the blind-spot parking areas it is easy to slip in the victims house. It is just a slight downhill slope to victim's 2nd floor
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Also IMO, the prep(s) could also easily jump from 3rd level to the blind-spot area. It would have been a jump of about 10 ft down directly or less than that if they aimed for the backyard uphill slope
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I literally just said the same thing... the killer could’ve easily jumped from here instead of going back through the house to exit…

Really thorough and thoughtful post… thanks!!

 

[BrownRice]

Nope, he's looking inside the third floor window with the pi phi symbol (arrow).

You can see the same window in this photo:

Right. He’s inside the room but he’s looking outside somewhere.

 

[layer]

I’m just not sure yet. If not a near neighbor, maybe a local. Someone who walks in the area or maybe worked on one of those nearby apartment buildings.
We have been told that it was a “messy” scene. This points to a disorganized killer; one who doesn’t plan well and who kills on an urge or rage. These killers are usually easier to identify and catch. The organized killer on the other hand, plans out his attack. He is methodical and careful and leaves few clues.
The problem with this case is that we have what appears to be a disorganized killer, but has managed to kill 4 people at once leaving few clues that we know of. I don’t think the neighbor, fellow student, acquaintance, would be that skilled. Is he just lucky?
What are your thoughts?

I have a real bad feeling about this case. The efficiency with which this crime was carried out leads me to believe that it's not a regular guy having a bad day. I'm afraid we have not heard the last from this killer.

 

[WildWest]

he just took pics off the real estate listing and created a diagram of the layout

It seems someone else just posted the video you are speaking of. Thanks, it was helpful to me

 

[rescuemom]

Not necessarily, if they were “passed out” and sleeping heavily from being out partying earlier that night. I believe it was reported that the 2 girls on the 1st floor woke up late the next morning, which is typical for college kids. If they did hear something they most likely would’ve called 911 in the 3 to 4 AM timeframe. I believe that odd layout of the house most likely contributed to them not hearing anything also.

Some kids where ear buds or headphones with soft ear coverings to study or sleep. I can't remember what they are called but if this was an active house at most hours of the day and night, and they are used to all of the activity they would prepare to study or sleep. Walking on the floors and steps were probably pretty noisy as were the raised ceilings.

 

[Porki]

Re: the comments from the coroner about reports stating all four victims were killed in their beds is inaccurate, I think a lot of people are assuming E was killed/found in the hallway. But there are some other possibilities. Maybe one of the victims was killed in the bathroom. Perhaps they had gotten up to use the bathroom while the killer was elsewhere in the house and had no idea, they go to leave the bathroom to return to bed and are confronted by the killer who pushes them back in the bathroom and the murder is done there. They may have been asleep when the killer entered the house and began their attack and woke up during it (while the killer was elsewhere) to use the bathroom.

Also, could it have been K or M who was not found in their bed? They were, we believe, up on the third floor. Maybe one of them heard a commotion downstairs, left their room to investigate and came upon the killer in the hall. This could be why the 911 call mentioned someone unconscious. The people on the second floor, which would be the first floor the survivors came to, may have been behind locked doors (supposition - not fact) and they thought there were unconscious and they never made it to the third floor to see someone dead in the hallway. This is all my speculation only and throwing out theories.

The wording has always made me think that someone was found on the floor next to a bed or close to a bed, maybe rolled out during a short struggle after the initial attack. Of course JMO.

 

[tokyorose]

I have a real bad feeling about this case. The efficiency with which this crime was carried out leads me to believe that it's not a regular guy having a bad day. I'm afraid we have not heard the last from this killer.

I think LE will catch him and soon. Does Idaho have the death penalty?
Other questions I have. Is JD also a frat brother? what about JS? if so what frats? I suspect Greek life will have a part to play in all of this. MOO

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Had a look at the map and it actually paints a very very interesting picture.

Firstly, You can see why LE think this was targeted. There has been some speculation of a stranger killing. If it was someone who was a stranger to the victims I don’t for one moment think it was chance. This isn’t someone who has driven around looking for a victim that evening imho. If you look at King street/Queen street it’s a dead end. There is nothing further on but flats and car parks. It’s not a thoroughfare, either for cars or humans. You have to go out of your way to get to it. If someone was driving around looking for a victim that night I think the police would be more interested in CCTV etc earlier in the evening anyway. But I don’t see anyone looking for a random victim ending up there. That would suggest someone local or someone who had perhaps tracked the victims location by social media. Again I can’t see any way that someone set out that night to find victims and ends up down a fairly obscure side road and/or LE wouldn’t be interested in suspicious individuals or CCTV earlier in the evening if they think the house and victims were attacked purely by chance.

Secondly the places they are looking for video footage are actually very telling. They appear to only be interested in one street North and all it does is take someone East to the 95. They don’t appear to be interested in anything North of Taylor Avenue towards the city or the university.

South they are interested essentially in someone getting through the residential areas to Palouse River Drive. This only leads in one direction that they appear to be interested in and that’s to South 95.

That’s validated by the final area they are interested in which is footage/CCTV of 95 South down to block 2700 (Thanks to whoever summarised where they are looking for public help)

The final area they are interested in is West to the botanical gardens and Arboretum. But when you look at a map that essentially leads… nowhere. And interestingly they haven’t asked for anything North of it, which you would need to take to go past the golf course and back towards the university campus. They don’t seem to be asking for any footage from around there.

What can we deduce from this? Well reading between the lines LE have pretty much telegraphed there the route they believe the perpetrator has taken IMHO. It’s East along one of the main thoroughfares: Taylor Avenue or Palouse River Drive and then Southbound away from the city.

Putting two and two together that’s not a route you take on foot. The only reason I can see why they are interested in that happened West is maybe they think someone parked a getaway vehicle there. Again there is no value in heading West unless you then head North across the golf course towards campus and that isn’t an area they appear to be interested in. Even if they had all CCTV from the uni I think they would still be requesting any private evidence from the public.

Secondly I would suggest from this they think a vehicle was used to leave the scene. Again it’s not something that really leads anywhere and once you get on the 95 South past 2700 it certainly doesn’t lead anywhere by foot. They don’t appear to be asking for anything West on Sands road south of the botanical gardens which would be the other Southbound exit away from the area towards Washington State. But it looks very rural.

I hadn’t really looked at it originally but actually it seems quite indicative from what LE are asking for in terms of how someone may have left the scene. Does that lean more towards a non student/out of Townes being the route they are interested in.

I thought they blocked those four points in because those are the only main access routes to the house. Short of parachuting in or living in the house, the killer would have had to cross through one of those four access points. The botanical gardens/arboretum have a street in front, so that's included, too. the killer had to cross one of those four borders to access the King street house. Via the arboretum/botanical gardens, it could have been bike or on foot. But because of the house's location, the killer had to cross one of those for points to get in, hence the request imo. icbw.

 

[WildWest]

MPD Press Log on 11/13/2022 says:

2-M09903 Homicide

Incident Address: 1100 blk KING RD

MOSCOW ID 83843

Disposition: ACT

Time Reported: 11:56

Cad Comments:

Complaint of unconscious person. Officers and EMS responded. Coroner and detectives notified. Report taken.


MPD Press Log 11/13/2022

I wonder why the girls in the basement did not go upstairs til almost noon? Breakfast? Coffee? Did they really sleep THAT late? Or were the ruffied like I suspected the blonde girls were upstairs too?

 

[soap mama]

I have a real bad feeling about this case. The efficiency with which this crime was carried out leads me to believe that it's not a regular guy having a bad day. I'm afraid we have not heard the last from this killer.

Agreed. LE is quick to distance this from those other cases. If true, not an SK, but maybe one in the making!

 

[AngTxGal]

It was a 1999 double stabbing, not murder, in Pullman, WA that is apparently unrelated:
“There have been numerous media inquiries about a 1999 double stabbing in Pullman, Washington”

EDIT: I removed link to news article about sentencing in case I think but don’t know for a fact the PR was referencing since I’m not sure it’s allowed.

Moo

I didn’t notice that either, I thought they were comparing to 2020 S Ladd in Washaugal, WA.
It is an unsolved stabbing of a 71 yr old woman in her home, found June 14, 2020

 

[MassGuy]

Talking with an old friend of ours, If you know who I mean. He lives close, and does drugs. We agree on that much.

 

[GmeCS]

I’m just not sure yet. If not a near neighbor, maybe a local. Someone who walks in the area or maybe worked on one of those nearby apartment buildings.
We have been told that it was a “messy” scene. This points to a disorganized killer; one who doesn’t plan well and who kills on an urge or rage. These killers are usually easier to identify and catch. The organized killer on the other hand, plans out his attack. He is methodical and careful and leaves few clues.
The problem with this case is that we have what appears to be a disorganized killer, but has managed to kill 4 people at once leaving few clues that we know of. I don’t think the neighbor, fellow student, acquaintance, would be that skilled. Is he just lucky?
What are your thoughts?

I think there’s definitely a rage that’s been building for awhile towards one person. I’m guessing he left plenty of clues, but not ones that directly implicate him, resulting in a guessing game requiring a lot of leg work and hopefully technical expertise and persistence analyzing Wi-Fi logs and cellular pings. I think he’s a hunter with maybe a minor criminal record, or none. The lack of blood outside the house is odd to me for someone relatively inexperienced, but I suppose even hunters are aware of not tracking blood in/out. I don’t think he’s a student, or if so, one not doing well. It’s just such an angry, emotional crime. MOO

 

[Lillymac]

Sorry, that came out much snarkier than I intended.
Are you referring to the video Sillybilly approved on the first page of this thread? This one?

Has anyone mentioned or explained the ladder that is shown in the photos?

 

[CityKid]

Seriously agree with this, and I’m really curious as to why there is so much interest in this dog. Unless I’m missing something, sleuthing this dog’s location/whereabouts seems pretty futile in the big picture. Even if the most pointed questions are answered by LE, does it actually help to solve these murders? Dog in or out… purposely removed or accidentally let out… found wandering or locked inside. Regardless, the dog can’t be an actual witness to any of this. I’m sure DNA was collected from the dog if indeed this animal was present during the murders. Sorry citykid, this isn’t directed at you… other than your comment sparked my rant.

No need for sorry (and my dogs agree!).

 

[GGbankster]

I wonder why the girls in the basement did not go upstairs til almost noon? Breakfast? Coffee? Did they really sleep THAT late? Or were the ruffied like I suspected the blonde girls were upstairs too?

Moo, I suspected that the girls may have heard something but they’re not quite sure what it was but didn’t think it warrant a 911 call.

 

[rescuemom]

You can request it, but they don't have to consent to give it.

If they refuse that would be a red flag for LE I would think. Most who have been cleared are friends of victims, except for maybe the uber driver, the person who drove them home and the food wagon, but if they are not arrested I don't think their DNA becomes part of a data base, so why not?

 

[Perch]

I have a real bad feeling about this case. The efficiency with which this crime was carried out leads me to believe that it's not a regular guy having a bad day. I'm afraid we have not heard the last from this killer.

LE and others have said several times “sloppy” and many posts and theories are building off of that. But IMO “sloppy” could simply be the observation of the obvious after 4 people are murdered by a knife in the same house. It may not be reflecting the killer was “sloppy” as in not knowing what he was doing. Again “sloppy” could be the result of a very efficient killer with a knife.

 

[DizzyB]

I know that lots of people are tired of hearing about the dog, but you never know how key the dog could turn out to be.

How Animal DNA Puts Killers Behind Bars

In recent years, hair, blood, saliva, and other bodily fluids from dogs, cats and birds have helped solve several violent crimes in the U.S. and Canada. A&E True Crime profiles four instances where animal evidence helped convict a murderer.

www.aetv.com

 

[oldtunasaloona]

Not someone who usually posts on these sort of things but I had a theory and felt it worth sharing, my apologies if this has already been covered but I haven’t seen it discussed much yet.

So I’ve been trying to rationalize how (1) the killer seemingly left the scene without being caught on camera or by another person, (2) why they chose this house and these girls, and (3) how their clothes must’ve been covered in blood and were able to clean up/dispose of them without being caught. Then it hit me — I think there is a fair chance the crime was committed by someone who lives in the apartment building directly next to/behind the house. It not only answers all of these questions but it would fit most of the possible narratives (outside of an ex) being discussed here: loser incel, stalker, thrill kill, etc.
Here me out: (1) according to google maps the home and the apartment building are 30 ft apart with less than a minute walk between them and the fastest route being through the hill/tree line behind the house. This not only aligns with the already assumed path of entry but would also explain how the killer or his vehicle wasn’t caught on any ring cameras/surveillance footage in the neighborhood — he didn’t drive. (2) The parking lot for the residents of that building backs up directly to the back of the home. You could park a car in that lot and see directly into the third story windows, which happens to be M & K’s bedrooms. Is it possible some loser resident parked there at one point, looked up and noticed these pretty girls laughing in their bedroom through the window and became kind of obsessed with them? Seems like a stretch, but at this point it is a possible explanation for how this could be “targeted” but yet still seemingly random. (3) Most of the apartments in that building are ONE BEDROOM apartments. This explains how he could have been covered in blood and cleaned himself/his clothes without a roommate or anyone noticing. It also fits the profile for some antisocial incel type to live alone. Not that there’s anything wrong with that but in college it’s the norm to live with friends. (4) Also, this is a bonus point but it’s known that most killers kill (or at least start) very close to where the live. It’s familiar territory and more comfortable for them — doesn’t get much closer than 30 ft…

I still lean in the camp of it being someone they knew but this alternative does line up with some of the other theories being discussed.