ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 13

[everybodhi]

LE and others have said several times “sloppy” and many posts and theories are building off of that. But IMO “sloppy” could simply be the observation of the obvious after 4 people are murdered by a knife in the same house. It may not be reflecting the killer was “sloppy” as in not knowing what he was doing. Again “sloppy” could be the result of a very efficient killer with a knife.

Every time I hear “sloppy”, I wonder if he is actually referring to a disorganized killer
FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin Volume: 54 Crime Scene and Profile Characteristics of Organized and Disorganized Murders

 

[Brunette]

Yes, I partied too, but was up every morning regardless of a late night, I could do that in my 20's lol. And who of us didn't go to work the next day with a hangover. Except, this was Sun night, so the house should have been up and around with them getting ready to go to class. I wonder if they walked or drove to campus for classes?

It was a Saturday night when they went out - the murders took place in the very early hours on Sunday. So they didn’t have classes to worry about.

 

[WildWest]

I think not waking up or at least not leaving your room until then is pretty normal. They probably got up to pee then laid in bed, scrolled their phones, made plans for the day etc. I imagine they went up to get food or see why their roomates maybe weren't responding to messages etc.

My teen and early 20's nieces and newphews all lounge until this time on weekends. They'll literally text one another between rooms to avoid getting up and mooving.

Ya, different times now, I was in college over 30 years ago. No cell phones back then.

 

[kt24]

I know that Moscow PD have stated that they believe that the other two stabbing murders—the one in 2021 in state of Oregon, and the one in 2020 in state of Washington—are not linked to this case…but how could they determine that so quickly?

It seems that all three attacks have some striking similarities in terms of specifics: home entered btwn. 3:00 and 4:00 am; knife attack in home residence; all on the 13th of a month, which was also a ‘weekend’ night; one in each state that all border one another geographically

It tells me that LE knows wayyyy more than they are letting on.

 

[JohnBull]

I do not believe that the suspect entered through the 3rd floor balcony...MOO

Yes, and speaking of the dog, it might very well be that someone put him out when they got home (it didn't necessarily have to be the owner) and forgot to bring him back in ... as well as forgetting that the door was still unlocked.

 

[WildWest]

It was a Saturday night when they went out - the murders took place in the very early hours on Sunday. So they didn’t have classes to worry about.

Thank you

 

[acutename]

When you look at the media photos in Isolation you can’t see it but there is an interesting sequence if you piece them together and look at where forensics are looking.

On the 1st floor there is a small ledge below the left hand window. It’s a brick width and the other day forensics were photoing it.

In one of the photos from the last couple of days forensics and LE are looking up above the ledge to the start of the 1st floor roof and it looks like in theory you could shimmy along the ledge and jump onto the 1st floor roof.

Then there is the photo of two different FBI agents looking out of the 2nd floor bathroom window. Either at the lock or LOS depending on your view.

It seems a bit of a bizarre potential entry pattern compared to the accesses from the back of the house. But if you look at the media photos in sequence LE are definitely interested in the ledge under the 1st floor left window, looking up at the roof above that window and looking through the 2nd floor bathroom window or at it.

When you look at the front of the house, going roughly by the height of windows etc… it doesn’t look beyond the realms of possibility someone could pull themselves up from the 1st floor to 2nd floor roof.

Would be very public and no idea why that would be preferred to the back of the house but put together the photos do look as though that could be what forensics are looking at.

people might leave a bathroom window cracked open to air out smells or shower steam- even in the winter IMO

 

[OldCop]

Not someone who usually posts on these sort of things but I had a theory and felt it worth sharing, my apologies if this has already been covered but I haven’t seen it discussed much yet.

So I’ve been trying to rationalize how (1) the killer seemingly left the scene without being caught on camera or by another person, (2) why they chose this house and these girls, and (3) how their clothes must’ve been covered in blood and were able to clean up/dispose of them without being caught. Then it hit me — I think there is a fair chance the crime was committed by someone who lives in the apartment building directly next to/behind the house. It not only answers all of these questions but it would fit most of the possible narratives (outside of an ex) being discussed here: loser incel, stalker, thrill kill, etc.
Here me out: (1) according to google maps the home and the apartment building are 30 ft apart with less than a minute walk between them and the fastest route being through the hill/tree line behind the house. This not only aligns with the already assumed path of entry but would also explain how the killer or his vehicle wasn’t caught on any ring cameras/surveillance footage in the neighborhood — he didn’t drive. (2) The parking lot for the residents of that building backs up directly to the back of the home. You could park a car in that lot and see directly into the third story windows, which happens to be M & K’s bedrooms. Is it possible some loser resident parked there at one point, looked up and noticed these pretty girls laughing in their bedroom through the window and became kind of obsessed with them? Seems like a stretch, but at this point it is a possible explanation for how this could be “targeted” but yet still seemingly random. (3) Most of the apartments in that building are ONE BEDROOM apartments. This explains how he could have been covered in blood and cleaned himself/his clothes without a roommate or anyone noticing. It also fits the profile for some antisocial incel type to live alone. Not that there’s anything wrong with that but in college it’s the norm to live with friends. (4) Also, this is a bonus point but it’s known that most killers kill (or at least start) very close to where the live. It’s familiar territory and more comfortable for them — doesn’t get much closer than 30 ft…

I still lean in the camp of it being someone they knew but this alternative does line up with some of the other theories being discussed.

I like your line of thought here. My biggest issue is that even if he walked only 30 feet or so, he would still leave a trail for a person or a dog to follow. Does anyone know where the ring doorbell was located that caught M & K returning home?
The apartment building next store that you are referring to has a sign at the entrance to the lot saying tenant only parking. Violators will be towed. I wonder if this is enforced. Tow companies who contract with buildings like this usually have their drivers swing through a couple of times a day to look for cars without parking stickers. Some buildings’ management put up the signs to deter people from parking in their lots but don’t contract with a company to actually tow. I wonder if the spaces are numbered? I can’t see any from the photos I saw. I wonder if there are a row of spaces set aside for guest parking? People may not pay attention to those spaces.
I do think the back is the likely escape route, but where did he go from there?

 

[Boratsagdiyev]

Something I just thought of ….K bought a new car prior to the murders. Does anyone know if it was purchased from an individual or a dealership? Is it possible someone could have put AirTags in her new car to track her ? Or is it possible that someone put AirTags in one of the victims purses to track them back home?
Disclaimer: I am NOT technically savvy whatsoever so if this theory is not plausible at all - I’m sorry in advance!

Airtags will notify IPhones around them if they’re close to each other for a certain period of time and not on the same iCloud account. If it was placed in there the same day then this is possible but any longer and someone would’ve seen a notification on their phones about it

 

[isabella88]

Delete if this is old: Idaho murders: Was Kaylee Goncalves the killer's main target? Police respond

"The family members, what they say is up to them," Snell said. "The information that we try to release is to the best of our ability, vetted and accurate and correct – and as well, to protect the integrity of the investigation."

Interesting quote there about the families. LE cannot be pleased with all of the interviews K's family has done in particular, especially if she was the target. Not that I blame the families at all. I'd want to get info out as well. JMO

 

[passionflower]

I think Bundy would have gone on to kill as many people as he could at the Chi Omega sorority house if he hadn't been interrupted by a car's headlights illuminating the room where he was busy mauling two of the girls (who survived). And in the present case it wouldn't surprise me at all if one of the victims put up some resistance and made enough commotion that the killer thought he'd better get while the getting was good.

So similar in a few ways. Did LE say if any of the girls were sexually assaulted?

 

[rescuemom]

This is intriguing because if the intruder was expecting K to be gone and he or she knew that M's room was on the third floor... They would have to have assumed she would be alone. Why would they assume that?

M had a named boyfriend in a previously posted social media video. We as observers know nothing about him and I find that interesting. Also, if there were any sounds the girls were concerned about, I find it doubtful that they would both be calling JD. M might also be calling her bf at the same time. So we could probably be safe to assume that the calls weren't made in fear. (train of thought has left the station so I am self editing here)

Maybe the third floor was tackled first and encountering two people (possibly even in the same room) caused the killer to lose his or her cool/sense of control. This unexpected, larger challenge may have caused a disturbance that awoke the two downstairs.

...

Then again, something that stuck with me is an interview where another student was known to say (need to find the source but I know it was in one of these threads), "it was Xana's house" like it was a known thing on campus. Which makes one think she was a bigger personality and potential target than we have been left to believe by authorities.

It is intriguing to me too. The many calls from both KG and MM to J makes me wonder and question this. KG made the first calls to J. Then MM made some calls to J. Why didn't J answer KG's calls? Was their break up a bad one, that he would not take her calls? If so you would think that he would at least answer MM's calls. What if it was an emergency? What if it was about the dog? I think that is strange and wonder of all of the info released those calls were reported as both girl's calls to one person. It could have been reported that the girls made phone calls as late as *advertiser censored* (time) and leave J out of it. Wasn't it said that it isn't what you see as what you don't see??

 

[Catz]

Had a look at the map and it actually paints a very very interesting picture.

Firstly, You can see why LE think this was targeted. There has been some speculation of a stranger killing. If it was someone who was a stranger to the victims I don’t for one moment think it was chance. This isn’t someone who has driven around looking for a victim that evening imho. If you look at King street/Queen street it’s a dead end. There is nothing further on but flats and car parks. It’s not a thoroughfare, either for cars or humans. You have to go out of your way to get to it. If someone was driving around looking for a victim that night I think the police would be more interested in CCTV etc earlier in the evening anyway. But I don’t see anyone looking for a random victim ending up there. That would suggest someone local or someone who had perhaps tracked the victims location by social media. Again I can’t see any way that someone set out that night to find victims and ends up down a fairly obscure side road and/or LE wouldn’t be interested in suspicious individuals or CCTV earlier in the evening if they think the house and victims were attacked purely by chance.

Secondly the places they are looking for video footage are actually very telling. They appear to only be interested in one street North and all it does is take someone East to the 95. They don’t appear to be interested in anything North of Taylor Avenue towards the city or the university.

South they are interested essentially in someone getting through the residential areas to Palouse River Drive. This only leads in one direction that they appear to be interested in and that’s to South 95.

That’s validated by the final area they are interested in which is footage/CCTV of 95 South down to block 2700 (Thanks to whoever summarised where they are looking for public help)

The final area they are interested in is West to the botanical gardens and Arboretum. But when you look at a map that essentially leads… nowhere. And interestingly they haven’t asked for anything North of it, which you would need to take to go past the golf course and back towards the university campus. They don’t seem to be asking for any footage from around there.

What can we deduce from this? Well reading between the lines LE have pretty much telegraphed there the route they believe the perpetrator has taken IMHO. It’s East along one of the main thoroughfares: Taylor Avenue or Palouse River Drive and then Southbound away from the city.

Putting two and two together that’s not a route you take on foot. The only reason I can see why they are interested in that happened West is maybe they think someone parked a getaway vehicle there. Again there is no value in heading West unless you then head North across the golf course towards campus and that isn’t an area they appear to be interested in. Even if they had all CCTV from the uni I think they would still be requesting any private evidence from the public.

Secondly I would suggest from this they think a vehicle was used to leave the scene. Again it’s not something that really leads anywhere and once you get on the 95 South past 2700 it certainly doesn’t lead anywhere by foot. They don’t appear to be asking for anything West on Sands road south of the botanical gardens which would be the other Southbound exit away from the area towards Washington State. But it looks very rural.

I hadn’t really looked at it originally but actually it seems quite indicative from what LE are asking for in terms of how someone may have left the scene. Does that lean more towards a non student/out of Townes being the route they are interested in.

Sorry, I don’t know how to shorten your post, but I made bold the sentences that caught my attention. I think LE is trying to get any video that would perhaps verify that a person who gave an alibi of heading out of town shortly after 2 am had actually driven out of town in the direction they said they went. MOO. Sort of on the lines of if you don’t see something you’d expect to see, then it throws up a red flag.

 

[isabella88]

So similar in a few ways. Did LE say if any of the girls were sexually assaulted?

They were not, thankfully.

 

[kittythehare]

Idaho murders: Was Kaylee Goncalves the killer's main target? Police respond

Police reveal new details about why they believe the slayings of four University of Idaho students in their sleep in mid-November was a "targeted" attack.

www.foxnews.com

Discusses possible incel motive.

 

[sds71]

Her heartbroken grandfather Michael Mogen, 71, told DailyMail.com she had loved college and had been 'a model student'.

He said: 'Everybody loved Maddie. There's no conflict I've ever heard of. Since she's been at college and involved in her sorority life, you can see from the pictures it was such a joyful experience for her.

'She was our first grandchild She was just a delightful little girl. I've never seen her even cause any trouble. She was curious, a model student all the way through.'

Pink cowboy boots of murdered Idaho student seen in window

Madison Mogen, 21, was brutally stabbed to death on November 13 with three of her Idaho University housemates by a killer whose identity remains a mystery.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Curious Me]

MSN

Saturday, Nov 26th 2022

Pink cowboy boots of murdered Idaho student seen in window

Madison Mogen, 21, was brutally stabbed to death on November 13 with three of her Idaho University housemates by a killer whose identity remains a mystery.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I didn’t notice that either, I thought they were comparing to 2020 S Ladd in Washaugal, WA.
It is an unsolved stabbing of a 71 yr old woman in her home, found June 14, 2020

That’s what I’m trying to clarify: law enforcement hasn’t addressed the Washougal murder that I’ve seen

 

[Boratsagdiyev]

I wonder why the girls in the basement did not go upstairs til almost noon? Breakfast? Coffee? Did they really sleep THAT late? Or were the ruffied like I suspected the blonde girls were upstairs too?

They were still making calls until like 2:55 AM so didn’t fall asleep until at least after that. That’s only 9 hours of time. And if the roommates knew they were drinking it’s even more normal for them to sleep that long. Not weird at all imo. I know people that can sleep till like 3 PM after drinking and staying up really late

 

[MntnHiker]

No, just no. Unless they were sleepwalking.

The full statement from the presser said: ""The coroner stated the four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds, and each was stabbed multiple times." If some had defensive wounds, then some had to have woken up. Could have happened during the attack, yes. To me, "likely asleep" means that is the most likely scenario but they can't say that with 100% certainty. I could also interpret this statement as the roommates were likely asleep when the murders began but some woke up (perhaps by hearing the attack on a fellow housemate. And again, some had to have woken up at some point to have defensive wounds).

We don't know for sure. I think the statement leaves some room for interpretation. It's OK if you don't agree with me, but like everyone else here, I am stating my theories