ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 13

[NinthFloor]

I wonder if any roofs have been replaced/or repaired on any apartments/housing in that general vicinity? And roofing tiles have to be cut with a sharp knife like tool. The vantage point from a rooftop has a good position to observe without being observed. JMO

 

[WildWest]

Moo, I suspected that the girls may have heard something but they’re not quite sure what it was but didn’t think it warrant a 911 call.

I see, maybe did go to the kitchen but did not look in the other bedrooms til noon. That makes better sense to me.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I’m just not sure yet. If not a near neighbor, maybe a local. Someone who walks in the area or maybe worked on one of those nearby apartment buildings.
We have been told that it was a “messy” scene. This points to a disorganized killer; one who doesn’t plan well and who kills on an urge or rage. These killers are usually easier to identify and catch. The organized killer on the other hand, plans out his attack. He is methodical and careful and leaves few clues.
The problem with this case is that we have what appears to be a disorganized killer, but has managed to kill 4 people at once leaving few clues that we know of. I don’t think the neighbor, fellow student, acquaintance, would be that skilled. Is he just lucky?
What are your thoughts?

Wild guess, but I think that LE is putting that out to prod the killer into a response. Icbw, but I described my theory in my first post on ws.

Editing to add my total conjecture:

Four people-that's brazen, that's a big calling card. Maybe that’s why LE (via the families, etc.) used the “made a mess” statement to bait him, hoping he'd respond. He’ll love all of the focus, but maybe irked by that “sloppy” remark, because (his thinking) if he’s so sloppy, why no footprints in and out? Why wasn’t there blood on the doors? How did he murder four people so easily and leave no obvious signs for the two he left alive?

this is wild guess on my part, but LE has gone through all of the predictable potential suspects and nothing, so maybe they, like I, think they're dealing with something different here. 2 FBI BAUs says something to me.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

I wonder why the girls in the basement did not go upstairs til almost noon? Breakfast? Coffee? Did they really sleep THAT late? Or were the ruffied like I suspected the blonde girls were upstairs too?

I keep seeing people say this and it surprises me. Did no one stay out super late in college or their early 20's and then sleep late the next day? It seems so common to me and doesn't surprise me at all that any of these kids would sleep until noon after being out the night before (unless they had a job to get to the next morning). This is actually one thing about this case that I don't find odd at all.

 

[everybodhi]

DBM

 

[everybodhi]

Again with the Danny Rolling stuff, but he walked right up to one roommate asleep on the couch, stood over her for a bit, then left her there to go upstairs and kill the other roomate.

He then went back down and attacked the first roommate as she was still sleeping on the couch.

It could happen….

Yes, and he murdered in an apartment complexes, not single unattached homes, even breaking down a bedroom door of one victim.
People who live in dwellings with roommates may not be alarmed by every bump they hear in the night and drinking alcohol can result in a deep heavy sleep, with hazy or non-existent memory if you do wake up.

 

[GGbankster]

I keep seeing people say this and it surprises me. Did no one stay out super late in college or their early 20's and then sleep late the next day? It seems so common to me and doesn't surprise me at all that any of these kids would sleep until noon after being out the night before (unless they had a job to get to the next morning). This is actually one thing about this case that I don't find odd at all.

True. I remember looking for bars that opens until (illegal open) 5am with friends when I was in college specially on weekends then I won’t wake up until 1pm.

 

[accordn2me]

Seriously agree with this, and I’m really curious as to why there is so much interest in this dog. Unless I’m missing something, sleuthing this dog’s location/whereabouts seems pretty futile in the big picture. Even if the most pointed questions are answered by LE, does it actually help to solve these murders? Dog in or out… purposely removed or accidentally let out… found wandering or locked inside. Regardless, the dog can’t be an actual witness to any of this. I’m sure DNA was collected from the dog if indeed this animal was present during the murders. Sorry citykid, this isn’t directed at you… other than your comment sparked my rant.

Of course, I can only attempt to explain why the dog is so interesting to me:
1. I'm curious about the flurry of phone calls (perhaps the last phone calls) made by the two murdered best friends;
2. I'm curious why a dog with a known residence and a known owner ended up at Animal Services;
3. I would like to understand how you can wake up in a house with four murdered roommates and 911 is not your very first phone call.

 

[OldCop]

I don't understand why LE never cordoned off the Queen road parking just next to the victim's house. May be the prep(s) discarded their cars after the crime but now would have drive it back or it is still there

IMO that area offers the best glimpse of what happening inside the house
View attachment 382761
Whether the prep was local or outsider, the prep(s) should have observed what's happening inside sitting inside their parked car often. There should be others who could have seen some person(s) sit in their car in this blind-spot area more often before the crime.

I say blind spot because it is well hidden in the area just before directly back of the victims house. The only view to that area could be apartments directly across from victims house (on taylor) or on backside of 500 Queen Rd Apartment. Please Note 500 Queen Rd doesn't have windows directly to see the victims house but at an angle View attachment 382762
View attachment 382769

Also from the blind-spot parking areas it is easy to slip in the victims house. It is just a slight downhill slope to victim's 2nd floor
View attachment 382770
View attachment 382771


Also IMO, the prep(s) could also easily jump from 3rd level to the blind-spot area. It would have been a jump of about 10 ft down directly or less than that if they aimed for the backyard uphill slope
View attachment 382772

I had not seen your excellent post before I threw up some pictures later today. Should teach me to read everything before I jump in.

 

[Spb1213]

I wonder why the girls in the basement did not go upstairs til almost noon? Breakfast? Coffee? Did they really sleep THAT late? Or were the ruffied like I suspected the blonde girls were upstairs too?

I just don’t find the late time unusual. We used to call it being on college time. After a night out, my roommates and I would often come down late morning/early afternoon after recovering, watching tv in rooms, sleeping in. In fact, I think it would have been unusable if they had been up at 8am, perky and ready for the day after going to bed after 1:00am.

 

[Brunette]

I keep seeing people say this and it surprises me. Did no one stay out super late in college or their early 20's and then sleep late the next day? It seems so common to me and doesn't surprise me at all that any of these kids would sleep until noon after being out the night before (unless they had a job to get to the next morning). This is actually one thing about this case that I don't find odd at all.

Totally agree! After a late night out in college, my friends and I would have to set an alarm for 12:50pm just to drag our hungover selves to the cafeteria to make sure we grabbed some food before the 1pm closing. I’d frankly be more surprised if these girls were up early.

 

[stayclassy]

This confuses me too. Was K living out of town and just came back for a weekend? It leads me to believe M might have been the target.

This is intriguing because if the intruder was expecting K to be gone and he or she knew that M's room was on the third floor... They would have to have assumed she would be alone. Why would they assume that?

M had a named boyfriend in a previously posted social media video. We as observers know nothing about him and I find that interesting. Also, if there were any sounds the girls were concerned about, I find it doubtful that they would both be calling JD. M might also be calling her bf at the same time. So we could probably be safe to assume that the calls weren't made in fear. (train of thought has left the station so I am self editing here)

Maybe the third floor was tackled first and encountering two people (possibly even in the same room) caused the killer to lose his or her cool/sense of control. This unexpected, larger challenge may have caused a disturbance that awoke the two downstairs.

...

Then again, something that stuck with me is an interview where another student was known to say (need to find the source but I know it was in one of these threads), "it was Xana's house" like it was a known thing on campus. Which makes one think she was a bigger personality and potential target than we have been left to believe by authorities.

 

[rescuemom]

What sticks out to me is the fact that KG was in town visiting with her dog, right? How long had she been gone? Why was she moving out of the house?? I asked this before but did not see any response, did her room still have her bed, and or any belongings in it? Weren't KG and MM found in MMs room?? This info might be useful to a stalker, neighbor or acquaintance. I find the timing more than a coincidence or random.

 

[LiverpoolUK2222]

I keep seeing people say this and it surprises me. Did no one stay out super late in college or their early 20's and then sleep late the next day? It seems so common to me and doesn't surprise me at all that any of these kids would sleep until noon after being out the night before (unless they had a job to get to the next morning). This is actually one thing about this case that I don't find odd at all.

If I’d been drinking on a Friday night into Saturday morning and got drunk, I could sometimes sleep right through till the Monday lol. Completely miss Sunday with bad hangover. That was a long time ago in the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s. Nowadays I don’t drink.

 

[Dutch77]

Their job is to solve a multiple homicide not satisfy public curiosity.

Exactly, they already did that when they announced the dog was safe.

 

[Which_pancake]

Of course, I can only attempt to explain why the dog is so interesting to me:
1. I'm curious about the flurry of phone calls (perhaps the last phone calls) made by the two murdered best friends;
2. I'm curious why a dog with a known residence and a known owner ended up at Animal Services;
3. I would like to understand how you can wake up in a house with four murdered roommates and 911 is not your very first phone call.

1. K's sister stated that frequent repeated calls for mundane reasons was normal behavior for her. These calls may very well have been just drunk dialing an ex and having your friend call too to check if your number was blocked.

2. The police may not have known the dog had another owner.

3. They may not have seen any bodies until after summoning the friends.

 

[GGbankster]

LE and others have said several times “sloppy” and many posts and theories are building off of that. But IMO “sloppy” could simply be the observation of the obvious after 4 people are murdered by a knife in the same house. It may not be reflecting the killer was “sloppy” as in not knowing what he was doing. Again “sloppy” could be the result of a very efficient killer with a knife.

I asked my husband what it means when an investigator describe a crime scene as “sloppy”, he told me in his division, when discussing a crime scene among themselves where he works, it means it’s someone who left a lot of “trace evidence”. It may be mean differently for other cops though.

 

[WildWest]

I keep seeing people say this and it surprises me. Did no one stay out super late in college or their early 20's and then sleep late the next day? It seems so common to me and doesn't surprise me at all that any of these kids would sleep until noon after being out the night before (unless they had a job to get to the next morning). This is actually one thing about this case that I don't find odd at

If I’d been drinking on a Friday night into Saturday morning and got drunk, I could sometimes sleep right through till the Monday lol. Completely miss Sunday with bad hangover. That was a long time ago in the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s. Nowadays I don’t drink.

Yes, I partied too, but was up every morning regardless of a late night, I could do that in my 20's lol. And who of us didn't go to work the next day with a hangover. Except, this was Sun night, so the house should have been up and around with them getting ready to go to class. I wonder if they walked or drove to campus for classes?

 

[flippyflappy]

I wonder why the girls in the basement did not go upstairs til almost noon? Breakfast? Coffee? Did they really sleep THAT late? Or were the ruffied like I suspected the blonde girls were upstairs too?

I think not waking up or at least not leaving your room until then is pretty normal. They probably got up to pee then laid in bed, scrolled their phones, made plans for the day etc. I imagine they went up to get food or see why their roomates maybe weren't responding to messages etc.

My teen and early 20's nieces and newphews all lounge until this time on weekends. They'll literally text one another between rooms to avoid getting up and mooving.

 

[Finders_Keepers]

When you look at the media photos in Isolation you can’t see it but there is an interesting sequence if you piece them together and look at where forensics are looking.

On the 1st floor there is a small ledge below the left hand window. It’s a brick width and the other day forensics were photoing it.

In one of the photos from the last couple of days forensics and LE are looking up above the ledge to the start of the 1st floor roof and it looks like in theory you could shimmy along the ledge and jump onto the 1st floor roof.

Then there is the photo of two different FBI agents looking out of the 2nd floor bathroom window. Either at the lock or LOS depending on your view.

It seems a bit of a bizarre potential entry pattern compared to the accesses from the back of the house. But if you look at the media photos in sequence LE are definitely interested in the ledge under the 1st floor left window, looking up at the roof above that window and looking through the 2nd floor bathroom window or at it.

When you look at the front of the house, going roughly by the height of windows etc… it doesn’t look beyond the realms of possibility someone could pull themselves up from the 1st floor to 2nd floor roof.

Would be very public and no idea why that would be preferred to the back of the house but put together the photos do look as though that could be what forensics are looking at.