ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 14

[pamelado2]

The coroner and the official statement said that some victims have defensive wounds, but that all were likely asleep when attacked/killed. That is my source. Both the official statement and the coroner's remarks would be contrary to someone who fought consciously and fiercely for their life. Someone who is likely asleep would be neither conscious nor a fierce fighter. That is my deduction.

Again, the father is grieving, so it makes sense that he would feel that way about his daughter. We want things like that to be true. I would too.

The fact that the coroner said likely leaves the door open for X being awake when she was attacked. And makes the most sense if E was killed first and in the same room that she was. No where has anyone said the 'were asleep'. The fact that her father read the autopsy and came to the conclusion (or it was explained to him) that she fought is more telling than the official statement in my opinion. Awake doesn't mean up and walking around it just means she was aware of what was going on enough to fight back when he came at her. It also doesn't mean it was for more than a few seconds. Which is no doubt why the coroner said "likely" how would they know if each of the victims woke or didn't before the attack began?

 

[human]

Did x have boyfriends before?

 

[hopewell]

I believe the person that was targeted was X. She would be “a woman who was living upstairs.”

Yesterday on the Twitter spaces hosted by Brian Entin and Jennifer Coffindoffer, the former FBI agent said she has heard rumors on the ground in Idaho that at least one of the bodies was mutilated. She said specifically how, but I won’t repeat that here, since it is a rumor, and is disturbing.

However, since we know X had defensive wounds, and therefore woke up, my suspicion is that she is the one who was out of bed. I’m guessing she was either blocking the door from being opened, or was hanging off the bed.

If you look at the floor plan, the bed in her bedroom would most likely be placed against the wall where the blood was dripping down the foundation of the home’s exterior. If her body was mutilated in such a way that a large amount of blood would leave the body, and was hanging off the bed, gravity would empty the body of blood, enough to soak through the seam between the floor boards, drywall and mounding, and then would run off of the subfloor and out of the house. Nearly 2 gallons of blood could definitely cause a few drips to leak out.

I also don’t understand why you would even want to mess with the only man in the house unless X was the target.

There is a reason that their timeline that evening is squishy. We just don’t know what that reason is.

I’ve just been thinking about all the pieces, and trying to put them together. To me, it makes sense that X was the one targeted.

Everyone, including X, was likely asleep according to the coroner. Following that, defensive wounds would've likely been instinctive and involuntary, or she could have been minimally conscious for a brief period of time. In any case, she didn't get up to fight anyone off, according to official reports.

 

[stmarysmead]

Forgive me if this has already if this has already been discussed; I’m trying to catch up on the threads.
I read in an article (trying to find now) that E’s parents said the night of the murders, E and his siblings were at D’s sister’s sorority dance. E was his sister’s date, and his brother was his sisters’ friend’s date. It’s possible X and E were at his fraternity party from 8-9 pm like is stated in reports, and then they parted ways for him to go to his sister’s sorority dance. That would maybe explain the lost time between 9 pm and 1:45 am. Perhaps the parents let that slip and shouldn’t have, since investigators haven’t divulged that info.

This is an interesting possibility. Then where was X? Was X alone at the house and that’s one of the reasons she called her Dad so late…to pass time till E returned? Did an X bf of hers stop by and then get into an’altercation’ when E and the other two girls showed up?

Maybe K and M went upstsirs and were trying to get HER Ex to come over and help them get rid of this guy.

I still stubbornly…for the moment…believe that the rage was directed at all four. But maybe just because K and M wouod be aboe to identify him and the two survivors could not.

Just guessing….

 

[CityKid]

It says that the triplets spent their last day together, I read this as that was a special occasion for their last time spent together. Not that they were necessarily together on E's last day alive. Maybe there is other information online that clarifies this that I haven't seen or have forgotten.

Ahh. I interpreted it as the last day of his life; all three were at the same school, his brother was also at Sigma Chi and none were graduating this year, so I figured they'd have more time together.

 

[DeViLintheDetaiL]

Let’s just pretend for argument’s sake that the killer was clever enough to leave his phone and smart watch at home while he snuck out to commit the murders.

If LE has an idea who the suspect could be, and if they think he drove a vehicle to commit the murders, would they be able to get information from some thing like OnStar to detect his movements using GPS?

Is OnStar not matching someone’s alibi?

If you left your smart watch and phone at home then you would have to use someone else's phone to call 911....

 

[beaaspears]

The fact that the coroner said likely leaves the door open for X being awake when she was attacked. And makes the most sense if E was killed first and in the same room that she was. No where has anyone said the 'were asleep'. The fact that her father read the autopsy and came to the conclusion (or it was explained to him) that she fought is more telling than the official statement in my opinion. Awake doesn't mean up and walking around it just means she was aware of what was going on enough to fight back when he came at her. It also doesn't mean it was for more than a few seconds. Which is no doubt why the coroner said "likely" how would they know if each of the victims woke or didn't before the attack began?

I was thinking about this statement as well. I do believe when they said about "defensive wounds" that she simply woke up and when the killer was about to strike her she put her arm up - that's likely the defense wound they said because it's the most common one. Now, idk if this implies she fought back or was only awake enough to have this reaction of defending her face

 

[EM152]

Did LE say that friends were called first or just that friends were ultimately called? Because if the latter, I can certainly understand young people blowing up their friends' phones after the fact.

My opinion.

MOO....I still think both events happened simultaneously. Both survivors saw something that caused them great distress. One uses her phone to frantically call friends, perhaps from next door at the Fraternity, while the other survivor uses her phone to place a frantic call to 911. The friends arrive quickly before any first responders can get there. The phone used to 911 is still connected to the 911 center and one of the arriving friends takes the phone and relays what they are seeing.

 

[Normancita]

If you left your smart watch and phone at home then you would have to use someone else's phone to call 911....

Who said the killer called 911?

Your statement is presuming that the killer made the call.

I’m suggesting that the killer does not live in the home. If he is a POI on LE’s radar, he may have told LE he was asleep all night at home (or wherever).

Perhaps his smart phone and smart watch prove that point, but his car is proving otherwise.

 

[indicolite22]

I know this video from CNN has been shared already, but I'm posting it again for anyone who may have missed it -- interview with K's dad and two siblings.

Counter to the dad's interview with Fox News, where others have speculated that he seems to know more than the public does, he mentions here that he isn't getting "much [new information]" from LE. Also important is the emphasis on the timeline: K and M got home at 1:56, not 1:45, and K's sister says that clearing this up is crucial to getting more information / evidence from the public.

The father also stated that he had more info that he collected on his own which he was advised not to share with the public.

 

[hopewell]

The fact that the coroner said likely leaves the door open for X being awake when she was attacked. And makes the most sense if E was killed first and in the same room that she was. No where has anyone said the 'were asleep'. The fact that her father read the autopsy and came to the conclusion (or it was explained to him) that she fought is more telling than the official statement in my opinion. Awake doesn't mean up and walking around it just means she was aware of what was going on enough to fight back when he came at her. It also doesn't mean it was for more than a few seconds. Which is no doubt why the coroner said "likely" how would they know if each of the victims woke or didn't before the attack began?

Obviously they would have been 'awake' when they were being stabbed to death. Unless something like ether was used, I can't imagine them not waking up on some level. But that doesn't mean they were awake long enough to fight back with a conscious intent to fight back. It was likely reflexive and very brief.

My opinion.

 

[pamelado2]

I was thinking about this statement as well. I do believe when they said about "defensive wounds" that she simply woke up and when the killer was about to strike her she put her arm up - that's likely the defense wound they said because it's the most common one. Now, idk if this implies she fought back or was only awake enough to have this reaction of defending her face

Well her dad said bruising and she was torn by the knife. Bruising tells me it was more than the killer just cutting her hand as it was raised.

 

[Arkay]

I also don’t understand why you would even want to mess with the only man in the house unless X was the target.

Just as a thought outside the box, what if there's an off-chance, a 1% chance, that Ethan was the target of an infatuation by a male?

That's not what I actually think, but just trying to approach from a totally different angle.

I believe a male had to commit this mass murder, not because females don't sometimes stab someone to death, but because it would take brute force and upper body strength to kill and perhaps have to subdue four people.

I'm of the opinion still that one of the girls was the target because of someone who was obsessed and ignored or outright rejected by one of them, or that the entire clique was in his mind a popularity level that he could never obtain.

But maybe, though I don't really believe it, some male was instead obsessed with Ethan and wanted to destroy him, since Ethan was straight and had a girlfriend. Then he wanted to destroy Xana of course and her friends to finish this clique off. Not knowing about the whereabouts of the two survivors, or not having enough time left.

Again, this is not what I believe but just trying to think of something different.

Just my random speculation.

 

[elmomom]

I agree that the families need to stop talking about what little they know about the murders. I don't think that media outlets are interested in talking with family members simply to talk about their children; I think that the media wants to pump them for as much info as they can get from them. And perhaps that accounts for some of the reason why LE isn't sharing much with them; LE fears that whatever they do share will only end up splashed across the news.
MOO

i agree with you re:the families. I can’t imagine how difficult this is making it for LE, trying to control the information on their end as well as trying to reign in families who have clearly spoken out about things LE would like to keep under wraps. Especially KG’s sister! It is one thing to assist LE, but constantly trying to ”correct” info that LE has made public does a huge disservice. We don’t, and they don’t, know why LE may choose to release things such as times that seem incorrect. It may be more of a strategic thing than a misstatement of fact. I know they seem to think the public should know more in order to crowd source a solution, but until LE needs help, the public is only a hindrance. And now, hiring a private investigator? I really think the FBI needs to go have a talk with these families!

 

[OldCop]

My question about this is how would the coroner determine they were asleep unless they were found in bed or else very close to bed (ie on the floor to the side like they fell out of bed)? As far as I know there is no way to physically tell if someone was asleep when they died, so it would just be from circumstantial evidence. I think the fact that they were thought to have been asleep when attacked means that even if one or more had defensive wounds, nobody got up out of bed and fought with the attacker.

Of the four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed to death in a rental house last Sunday, some were killed in their beds, the Latah County coroner told CBS News Friday.

Coroner Cathy Mabbutt would not provide any further details. She noted, however, that earlier media reports stating all four victims had been murdered in their beds were not accurate.

Some of the murdered University of Idaho students were stabbed in their beds, coroner says

According to police, the coroner said all four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[agreen36]

On the one hand I fully understand why they aren't releasing much information at all. It's the best way to ensure you have the right perp if someone confesses since they will know information that isn't public.

On the other hand I'm not always convinced LE makes the decisions when it comes to not releasing information. The one I always think of is poor Scott Ratigan. He was murdered in Arlington, VA in 2020. A year after his murder, LE released several CCTV clips they had of his murderer in the area near his building. I am a firm believer that LE made a crucial error here. They should have released those clips immediately. There was a MUCH higher chance of someone seeing those images and remembering something days afterwards vs a year later.

I am feeling similarly about the request for videos/images here. You can tell the dad wants to say more but LE doesn't want him to. Maybe LE has almost everything they need and is just hoping for further support. Fine. But if they're stuck at all I think they need to come out and give some more information about what exactly they are looking for, or not looking for, in the images or videos. These vague requests "If you have anything from the area that night please let us know" just isn't going to get everything out there. I guarantee there are people out there with a selfie of themselves or a drunk video in a bar who think, no matter what LE says, their photo is not useful. But if LE explained a bit "we need this area, around this time" I think they'd have way more luck. Could it possibly make a false confession easier? I suppose. But if they're lacking in information to find a suspect at all, they need to weigh pros and cons.

It also sounds like Kaylee's dad is frustrated. He's deferring to LE because he knows this is their job but if this case goes on much longer with an arrest, I feel like he and other parents may start releasing information on their own to try and gather more evidence. Whether you agree with them doing that or not this is reality and LE needs to be mindful of this.

 

[pamelado2]

Obviously they would have been 'awake' when they were being stabbed to death. Unless something like ether was used, I can't imagine them not waking up on some level. But that doesn't mean they were awake long enough to fight back with a conscious intent to fight back. It was likely reflexive and very brief.

My opinion.

Not awake when they were stabbed, awake before they were stabbed. Of course the first stab would wake them if they were sleeping, that's a given.
Also, bruises and tears are indications that it was more than just raising her hands to ward off the attack.

 

[wary]

I think many of us understand the families’ frustration with the police not telling them much about the investigation but agree that they shouldn’t share many details. I was surprised to learn from the FBI agent in Brian Entin’s Twitter Spaces that usually the officers and detectives that liaise with the families of the victims aren’t told a lot about the investigation so they don’t inadvertently tell them something they want to keep to themselves. Same with police spokespeople - they don’t have much information beyond generalities of the crime. Maybe everyone knew this, but I didn’t and thought it was interesting!

That’s interesting! And very wise

 

[waitin'4thewrld2chg]

I am intensely interested in this case (Washington resident / WSU grad back in the day, twelve minutes away), but I have only been able to read bits and pieces here in each of the fourteen threads. So I’m ‘that person’ because this has probably been discussed a million times here, but does anyone have thoughts one way or the other about the two (or multiple) perp notion?

Myself, I picture one perp, probably like most people do, but with the mention at the most recent presser of authorities having said they have not ruled out that more than one person may have been involved in the killings, it sets me to wondering. Of course, “involved” could mean a myriad of things, including not being present at the crime scene, I imagine.

Does this seem like standard LE parlance to include a statement about not having ruled out more than one, or does it make you wonder why they brought it up? Thanks.

Investigators have received more than 260 digital submissions in probe of University of Idaho murders | CNN

Almost two weeks after the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students, police are still searching for clues and asking the public for help.

www.cnn.com

 

[CaneDubs]

Agree that the bruises and tears seem to indicate motion on the part of the victim, at least the tears do. The guard on the knife could also leave bruises that would not be indicative of a bigger struggle though. MOO