ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 14

[zephyr22]

Something happened to me in college that I want to share.
I lived off campus and my roommates and I were having a party. At some point a group of us went into the bathroom and were chatting. All of a sudden a guy opened the shower curtain and ran out of the bathroom and out of the house. We did not catch him, nor did we call the police.
Got me thinking, is it possible that this person was already hiding in the house when they arrived home.

Yeah I've thought that from the beginning!

 

[Which_pancake]

I've been saying from the start that how could the ME, or anyone, know if someone was asleep? One might assume that they were asleep based on the time of night, or being found in beds, but I doubt that anyone could say conclusively that they were asleep. Someone on these threads pointed out that an Apple watch or Fitbit can tell if someone is sleeping but then, all 4 would have had to be wearing onefor each to be labeled as "asleep", right?
MOO

This is exactly my question - how was it determined they were attacked while asleep.

 

[hopewell]

I think this is a non sequitur. Working off of "crazy people be showing up everywhere", how does that entail therefore other students in the fraternity need to be endlessly scrutinized, and we need to go down rabbit holes of how many phone calls were made.
The largest killing in american college history was the asian kid at vt. I think the IU massacre is a different abstraction from a lone wolf type.

I think this is a non sequitir, because I certainly never concluded that fraternity kids need to be endlessly scrutinized.

In fact, I agree that endlessly scrutinizing students and phone calls is absurd, but it isn't statistically unreasonable to assume that someone in their circle is unstable enough to commit a heinous act. I imagine the profilers are digging into backgrounds along those lines, but it is and would be likely fruitless for anyone not an investigator to try it.

My opinion.

 

[Diddian]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1596937966785802241

While that territorial view is beautiful, it's troubling to see the extent to which that house is exposed from so many different directions - with multiple large nearby yards and parking areas that have enough trees to provide an observer fairly good cover.

It would be fairly easy to watch the house and develop a good understanding of the residents' common practices, hours in which individuals tended to come and go, whether and where they used window coverings, when lights turned on and off, and whether any males were currently staying in the home, etc. And during hours of darkness, those yards and parking lots could be accessed by anyone - not just their current residents.

 

[Karin1974]

Yeah I have always wondered where X and E were after the frat party and before arriving home. Did they go to a bar? Someone's house? How do LE know what time they arrived back at the King Rd House? Perhaps they were picked up on that Ring camera or they saw when their phones connected to WiFi?

It's especially interesting IMO not knowing where they were when that was also supposedly during the window of when X last spoke with her dad (somehow, via text or call, we don't know). I've always wondered if something was wrong or bothering her or if it's normal for them to talk that late at night. My parents would be long asleep by midnight, but maybe that is the norm for their family or perhaps her parents had plans and would be out/up late that night and X knew that and knew she wouldn't be waking them.

I imagine they saw them on the same ring bell camera that also captured M & K returning home? Which then leads me to believe that K’s sister would perhaps also be privy to this information? MOO.

 

[CEO.SPW]

Hmmm...the old sofa and what looks like a makeshift homeless encampment?

I would think it’s probably because of it being student housing and the landlord doesn’t care what the property looks like. I live in a college town and it’s very common to see old furniture in the yards unfortunately!

 

[CityKid]

Sure, but remember the attacker is stabbing and would continue with his weapon. So when you're arm goes up he continues to strike with the knife, cutting your arm. I assume it's more instinctual, to try and get the knife away from you rather than go for his weak spots.

I hope I never have to test this!

 

[Glumlibrarian]

Does anyone remember LE, maybe in a question and answer portion of a PC, or something, saying they could not divulge where each body was found. I swear this was said, but I can't find the source.

Yes! He said something like they’re not disclosing that because it’s part of the ongoing investigation. Either at the last presser or the one before.

 

[Which_pancake]

We have been over this 1000 times. The coroner said they were likely asleep when attacked. Not when they died. Being attacked with a large knife, or sleeping next to somebody who is attacked with a large knife, is likely to wake somebody up.

Yes, they were all in a bed sleeping when attacked. That doesn’t mean they just stayed asleep the whole time.

Since the coroner made that statement, we have also been told that “some” of the deceased victims were located NOT in a bed

How did she know they were asleep while attacked? I think she could reasonable state that if the victim was lying in bed dead, but for example, if a victim was lying dead in a hallway, how could she determine that they had been asleep, were attacked, got up and then died in the hallway?

 

[Zinn]

I’ve seen lots of comments from people perplexed by lack of evidence of sexual assault. I’m not sure why this might surprise people, especially considering the scale of the crime and probable need for efficiency if the priority was murder inside a house with multiple occupants.

<modsnip - unrelated case>

 

[LAhiker]

This could be true. MOO is that they have someone on their radar screen.

I also think they probably have a suspect or suspects in mind.

The police said in their 11/25 post:
"At this time, there are no named suspects, no arrests and no weapon has been found." BBM

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

Is it normal for them to say "no named suspects"? Or would it be more usual for them to say "At this time, there are no suspects"? If the latter, would the implication be that they have a suspect or suspects, but have not named them? Thanks!

MOO

 

[tpen]

I agree, the police have an idea who did this as well.

Also, I find it strange that the roommates who survived, called their friends after finding “an unconscious roommate.”
We know from the parents of the victim, that the crime scene was “messy.” This leads me to believe we are either being kept in the dark, or the roommates are lying. They would have to have seen all the blood and carnage to just see one victim, and they decided to call friends instead of calling the police or for real help. Not buying this. Roommates no more or we don’t really know what they told police.

No way the killer was a stranger, unless he is the luckiest person alive. There were to many victims and variables, like the dog. The killer knew the dog wasn’t an issue and that it wouldn’t make noise or try to defend anyone. The killer could have even been seen in the house and the victims wouldn’t have had a second thought. The victims know who he is and wouldn’t have reacted if they did see him.

It’s been discussed multiple times that the “unconscious person” bit is likely standard coding for the dispatcher when there is an unresponsive person, even if they are clearly/apparently dead

 

[Notthisshipsister]

BBM Above -
Thank you for transcribing this again!

This statement stood out to me. Do you think he is alluding to related homicides? Or just other homicides w/out answers.
"The fact that we're finding out that there's more than just my daughter and these children that have suffered. "

I picked up on that too, and wondered. Interesting way that dad phrased that. Doesn't his comment seem more specific than a comment about crime in the world in general? "We're finding out..." Anyone reading the newspaper or watching TV news would know that there's crime in the world, they wouldn't be just finding out.
MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Have you all seen the latest interview of Kaylee’s father? Hard to watch in many ways, but he says something to the effect of maybe there’s a selfie that you don’t think matters, but something from an alibi that was supposed to be there isn’t, like parking next to a tree. That then made me think of the police saying, what sounded like a riddle, that sometimes a video or picture that what isn’t in it is just as important as what is.

It just sounds like he was trying to say that there is an alibi that isn’t adding up. That’s certainly interesting. It could be anyone at this point since they’ve spoken to what, 90 people? Again though, while I understand their pain and desperately wanting to catch the killer, the killer is watching all of this. The families need to stop talking

Which interview is this? I can't find it in the media thread. Can you link please?

 

[CaneDubs]

This is exactly my question - how was it determined they were attacked while asleep.

It may be conceivable that one could potentially tell the order of some of the wounds based on overlap and that first/earlier wounds were cleaner - meaning the person was prone or not defensively postured / fighting.

 

[CEO.SPW]

I know, I know... The dog again.
I thought about this extensively and had two points regarding dog etc.
1. If the dog was let in and slept in a kennel at night, it would explain much of the where/when/why.
2. I reviewed police logs and found calls made regarding the location of an animal transported to local animal shelter.
"22-M09911 Suspicious Person/Circumstance

Incident Address: 2000 blk WHITE AVE

MOSCOW ID 83843

Disposition: ACT

Time Reported: 17:30

Cad Comments:

Request assistance locating dog that was dropped off at shelter.

Officer responded. Computer report."

Moscow Police Log 11-13-22

Great find!! This makes total sense! It was said that Jack picked him up at a shelter the next day!

 

[CityKid]

Easier said that done if you're lying in bed and the knife maniac is standing up attacking you while you're laying down.

I said it would be my instinct. In reality, I hope never to find out!

 

[SkyBoomer]

I keep seeing this but wondering if the mom was referring to Friday instead of Saturday? “Last day before Sat night/early Sunday morning”. I bet someone can find the date of the dance?

The FB pics posted by KAT sorority were dated “November 13”, but that is most likely the date they were uploaded. So, I suppose the dance could have been the 11th OR the 12th. My guess would be Sat., Nov 12.

 

[Charlot123]

Comment on DNA results: the murderer does not have to be in the national DNA database to be identified by crime scene DNA. LE, FBI, investigators most likely collected a DNA sample from all those interviewed. Imagine someone they interviewed declining to submit to a simple buccal swab for DNA, right away that would throw a red flag. Comment regarding the 911 call "unresponsive person": yes some language usage is standard by dispatch. The caller may or may not have used the description "unresponsive". Standardized language is commonly used in many industries, organizations and public service sectors. This language prompts a more efficient response to requests. Example being a police call for unresponsive will trigger responding officers to prepare a narcan kit, contact EMS, and wear PPE, (personal protective equipment). PPE such as mask, and gloves to aid in protection from potentially hazardous biologic material. Dispatch may or may not have asked qualifying questions of the caller. These are questions like, is he breathing, do you feel a heartbeat, etc. The 911 caller may or may not be comfortable touching an unresponsive person to check for heartbeat or breathing. I worked in the ER for many years. When a patient registered to be seen in the ER in the main lobby, we were immediately prompted to the basic complaints. Our staff then had a room ready to include necessary equipment to best treat the incoming patient. Examples are ; the patient complaining of chest pain and SOB,(shortness of breath), we communicated that with the description "a heart" is coming to ER suite 100. Staff had an EKG machine, cardiology on stand-by, lab for cardiac enzymes etc., Everything needed to address a potential heart attack. A patient registering with laceration, we had a room ready with wound care, possibly x-ray and lab for microbiology testing etc. This 911 call could reflect this basic standardization of communication to insure an efficient response. The possibility that whoever called 911 saw an unresponsive person only, without blood still exists. It's possible the person wasn't a victim, rather someone else who was passed out in the house. In this day of overdoses, the dispatch may ask if there are any other passed out people. It could be then or even before the 911 call that as they walked through the house they found locked doors and became panicked, calling friends to come over. They may have had no awareness of the attacks. They may not have recognized the "unresponsive" person at that point. It's a party house, people in and out, someone's passed out, they call friends over, discover locked doors, things get weird, everyone's a little hungover... MOO

Surely not. If the murderer is of regular Caucasian/Western European ancestry, which i suspect he might be, and left DNA, he will be found! If he is of Eastern European, not a problem these days too.

More of an issue if he is Asian or South American. For Asia, WeGene is the largest database known to me. Don't know about South American.

Just wish that he cut himself. I wonder if it could have happened in E/X room, hence, he left/ran away after that?

 

[Gypsy Road]

I’ve never been stabbed with a knife, but I have received puncture wounds that have left huge bruises. I would think that stabbing would cause bruises also. We won’t know if they fought back until everything comes out I guess.