ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 16

[cottonweaver]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

Frankly, that house is one big target to a sick mind. All those girls, lax security, no cameras, door frequently left unlocked, no curtains on the windows, dark neighborhood, lots of dark space in the back for peeping, studying, planning, ingress and egress. One big target.

yes, very worrying

if the meaning is that it's this particular house & it's an easy target ( zero personal connection w victims)

that says something about motive even though we were told no actual sexual assaults.

seems like it's time to announce a big reward to motivate people as to the urgency ? can the university put up a reward. ( I heard the governor gave a million to help fund the investigation but LE will surely need those funds as it's a massive investigation)

 

[PolarButterflie]

I could be wrong but i thought they only stated the surviving roommates have been cleared.

Could you please provide a sources that shows they were cleared? To my knowledge, LE only "do not believe" the roommates and summoned friends were not involved. As far as I know, noone has been officially cleared to date.

 

[davisrnr1]

The Communications Director for the Idaho State Police is not going to be talking about a fainting roommate:
Why?
A. It is not relevant to the murder
B. Possible breach of privacy/medical information of one of the roommates. (LE is protecting the roommates, not discussing their medical conditions. )
C. The police log refers to a homicide with regards to the 911 call. If there was an EMS call for someone fainting, it is not in the police log.

I have fainted. I was not completely out of it.

Syncope, commonly known as fainting, or passing out, is a loss of consciousness and muscle strength characterized by a fast onset, short duration, and spontaneous recovery Syncope (medicine) - Wikipedia

Syncope (Fainting)

Syncope (SINK-a-pee) is another word for fainting or passing out.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

Why on earth would the Communications Director for the Idaho State Police discuss a fairly benign medical condition of a roommate???
Wouldn't that be a violation of the roommate's privacy??? Wouldn't that be a violation of the HIPAA Act?? Sure, he doesn't give the roommate's name, but there were only two of them and this investigation has been protecting the roommates.
Whether one of them fainted or not is not a legal issue or is it part of the murder investigation.

It's completely possible that the ORIGINAL call was related to the unresponsive person, and was updated either after police arrived or potentially during the call which sounds like it could've been lengthy when bodies were discovered. It's also very feasible that the information relayed to the Communications Director was that the original call was for an unresponsive person. Nobody said anything about it being merely fainting, but someone unresponsive which could've been instigated by fainting. Underlying medical conditions, shock, hitting head when falling, etc. could be missing pieces of info here. They would be sharing that with the public because its what started the whole chain of events that day from the police perspective.

I grew up listening to police scanners (and still do occasionally) and its frequent that you'll hear a call out for an unresponsive person and when the police arrive the person is fine - they had been passed out, drunk, etc. It's also somewhat common that when police arrive the person is deceased or requires serious medical attention. The problem is that it's not always known when the call is made which of those is the case.

As someone in the medical profession can tell you sharing details about a patient without sharing personally identifiable information is not a violation of privacy. It's not covered by HIPAA. You can hear this kind of stuff shared ALL THE TIME on police scanners, police reports or news reports.

 

[katydid23]

No. "Unresponsive" is never used for people who have fainted.

I am not sure if that is true, when dealing with 911 dispatchers. My mother fainted and I called 911, because I couldn't wake her up. Dispatcher asked if she was responding to me. I said NO, she fainted and won't respond.

When ambulance arrived, they had her labeled as unresponsive. Luckily she did wake up and was never comatose or near death. She was just unresponsive after fainting due to dehydration. [they believe]

First aid for unconsciousness: What to do and when to seek help​

Does unresponsive mean unconscious?
Unconsciousness is an unresponsive state. A person who is unconscious may seem like they are sleeping but may not respond to things like loud noises, being touched, or being shaken. Fainting is a type of unconsciousness that happens suddenly and may only last a few seconds.

 

[Sjöberg]

I'd bet they heard something,

"Two roommates were home at the time of the killings, police have said. The roommates heard something, according to Chapin’s mother, Stacy, though she did not get into details." How did things unfold before, after University of Idaho killings? A timeline of events - East Idaho News

 

[crax.t]

Could you please provide a sources that shows they were cleared? To my knowledge, LE only "do not believe" the roommates and summoned friends were not involved. As far as I know, noone has been officially cleared to date.

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24764/11-29-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

At this time in the investigation, detectives do not believe the following are involved in this crime:
 Two surviving roommates,
 Male in the Grub Truck surveillance video,
 Private party driver who took Kaylee and Madison home on November 13th ,
 The male Kaylee and Madison called numerous times during the early morning hours of November 13th, or
 Any individual at the residence when 911 was called.

not sure the LE lingo but does "do not believe" mean something other than cleared?

edit: sounded snarky, genuinely curious

 

[IceCreamSundae]

From the Zillow listing....locks look like standard butterfly lock interior door knobs.

View attachment 383636

I agree the doors could have been locked by the killer upon leaving the room. If there was no blood evidence outside of bedrooms, this would mean that he (my opinion) had to have either removed bloody footwear, wrapped knife so it didn’t drip, etc. between bedrooms or cleaned up his tracks afterwards. Either option speaks to a very calculated killer.

 

[Hank0723]

I have not heard it confirmed that they 2 girls actually left their sororities...maybe they did. More likely, they just dont do as much with the sorority as they used to since they are in the last 1 or 2 years of college (cant remember if they are seniors or juniors). This is very common with sororities - to be less involved the closer you get to graduatin

https://twitter.com/x/status/1597696556089896960

This is so incredibly sad

 

[Seni]

I have fainted. I was not completely out of it.

Syncope, commonly known as fainting, or passing out, is a loss of consciousness and muscle strength characterized by a fast onset, short duration, and spontaneous recovery Syncope (medicine) - Wikipedia

Syncope (Fainting)

Syncope (SINK-a-pee) is another word for fainting or passing out.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

Why on earth would the Communications Director for the Idaho State Police discuss a fairly benign medical condition of a roommate???
Wouldn't that be a violation of the roommate's privacy??? Wouldn't that be a violation of the HIPAA Act?? Sure, he doesn't give the roommate's name, but there were only two of them and this investigation has been protecting the roommates.
Whether one of them fainted or not is not a legal issue or is it part of the murder investigation.

Because it was the reason for for 911 call! They found someone "unresponsive" correct term IMO. Could have been a pass out drunk, a stroke, epileptic fit, diabetic coma, whatever. it was not their place, training or due to diagnose why this person was unresponsive.

 

[davisrnr1]

He doesn't say they don't have poi(s).

Yes, I was begging for a follow up question to clarify this.

 

[annpats]

What also gets me is that even in this day and age, this house had seemingly zero security! Personally as someone old enough to have a young daughter at college and having been one myself, I'd have some kind of security. Door/window alarm, motion sensor or camera... They didn't have any of these things in place. Maybe someone noticed?

It's a small town in Idaho. There's probably plenty of no security houses. I hardly think 4 people were killed just because there were no cameras etc.
This wasn't a random killing, far from it.

MOO.

 

[ventuc]

One thing that doesn’t make sense to me is, if the unresponsive person was X or E on the 2nd floor, wouldn’t the roommates/friends have also tried to reach those on the 3rd floor, including going up to their rooms? Was there really no blood evidence outside of the rooms? And also, why wasn’t the 911 call for multiple unresponsive people, since they wouldn’t have been able to reach any of the four? I know it’s nothing I need to know, I just am curious how it played out, and how well the media reports mesh with reality.

 

[PolarButterflie]

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24764/11-29-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

At this time in the investigation, detectives do not believe the following are involved in this crime:
 Two surviving roommates,
 Male in the Grub Truck surveillance video,
 Private party driver who took Kaylee and Madison home on November 13th ,
 The male Kaylee and Madison called numerous times during the early morning hours of November 13th, or
 Any individual at the residence when 911 was called.

not sure the LE lingo but does "do not believe" mean something other than cleared?

edit: sounded snarky, genuinely curious

"Do not believe" means that the think they are probably not involved, but don't have definitive proof. "Cleared" means they have definitive proof that they weren't involved.

 

[Friday Fan]

It's completely possible that the ORIGINAL call was related to the unresponsive person, and was updated either after police arrived or potentially during the call which sounds like it could've been lengthy when bodies were discovered. It's also very feasible that the information relayed to the Communications Director was that the original call was for an unresponsive person. Nobody said anything about it being merely fainting, but someone unresponsive which could've been instigated by fainting. Underlying medical conditions, shock, hitting head when falling, etc. could be missing pieces of info here. They would be sharing that with the public because its what started the whole chain of events that day from the police perspective.

I grew up listening to police scanners (and still do occasionally) and its frequent that you'll hear a call out for an unresponsive person and when the police arrive the person is fine - they had been passed out, drunk, etc. It's also somewhat common that when police arrive the person is deceased or requires serious medical attention. The problem is that it's not always known when the call is made which of those is the case.

As someone in the medical profession can tell you sharing details about a patient without sharing personally identifiable information is not a violation of privacy. It's not covered by HIPAA. You can hear this kind of stuff shared ALL THE TIME on police scanners, police reports or news reports.

Can you please provide a reliable/credible source that says one of the roommates fainted or had a medical condition that made them "unresponsive"??? LE is stating that the call was about a second-floor victim??
Is there a credible/reliable source that a roommate fainted?

Thank You!

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24764/11-29-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

On November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call was made from one of the surviving roommates’ cell phones inside the residence. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before Moscow Police arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found two victims on the second floor and two victims on the third floor.

 

[lucidium]

Speaking of leaps:

.
.
Again, we are over two weeks in, no suspects or persons of interest named, known, or hidden, 4 people methodically stabbed to death on different floors, no burglary, no sexual assault, BAU called in immediately, and a clarification by the DA that it was the house that was targeted and not a specific roommate.

That speaks to a serial killer, because the other workable theories I've seen were almost entirely dependent on one or more victims being specifically targeted.

My opinion.

Not quite. What we have is a reporter relaying information from a DA who is not directly involved in the day-to-day investigation. So third hand knowledge at best. As can be seen on every page of this thread, communicating clearly is difficult.

To me, this suggests investigators believe the people living in the house were targeted as a group, not the physical structure.

 

[KR72]

Is it just me thinking that the authorities would have taken the cars in the first day or two after the killings? Waiting two weeks to take possession of them seems like a long time.

 

[SkyBoomer]

I know little about Greek life except from my college experience at UT Austin many many years ago. Each fraternity and sorority had a reputation. Tri Delta for example, in my opinion, tended to be affluent girls. Does anyone know the reps of the sororities the victims belonged to? Feel free to pm me if you think it violates TOS. I'd like to know what the typical member might be like. This whole incel/Stacy thing is new to me. Never heard of it.

I was a Pi Phi (but like 35 years ago, lol).

Sorority and Fraternity chapters vary in reputation from campus to campus. I pledged Pi Beta Phi at the university where I did my freshman and sophomore years, but declined to affiliate when I transferred as the Pi Phi chapter at the new school was not a good fit for me.

My bf back then, who also had transferred and was a Pi Kappa Alpha, did not affiliate with our new school’s chapter bc the chapter at our old school had it’s charter revoked because of a gang rape case. (It was featured on 20/20 at the time). He wanted nothing to do with Pikes after that.

Tl;dr: Greek reps are different at every school

 

[Strong1]

One thing that doesn’t make sense to me is, if the unresponsive person was X or E on the 2nd floor, wouldn’t the roommates/friends have also tried to reach those on the 3rd floor, including going up to their rooms? Was there really no blood evidence outside of the rooms? And also, why wasn’t the 911 call for multiple unresponsive people, since they wouldn’t have been able to reach any of the four? I know it’s nothing I need to know, I just am curious how it played out, and how well the media reports mesh with reality.

In my opinion the unresponsive person was not one of the victims. It is even possible that when they made the 911 call they weren't even aware of the murders.

 

[Sjöberg]

So far tested evidence is not leading them to a POI…

"Critical" lab results from Idaho student murders fail to identify killer

Idaho police are still collecting evidence, seizing five cars parked outside the house since the night of the murders.

www.newsweek.com

"As students return to campus after the Thanksgiving break, more are coming forward to participate in interviews with the police about the investigation.
One piece of the investigation Painter said police are still trying to learn more about is a gap in time between when Kernodle and Chapin left a party at Chapin's fraternity Sigma Chi and when they arrived back home. The couple allegedly left the party around 9 p.m. November 12 but didn't arrive home until 1:45 a.m. November 13.
Painter said police don't know what occurred during that gap and are continuing to interview students who live at Sigma Chi or were attending the party for more information."

 

[katydid23]

ok that clears it up for me.

When my mom fainted, the 911 dispatcher labeled her as unresponsive.