ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 16

[dgfred]

Let's think about the kind of confidence that it takes to go inside of a house in the early morning to kill a whole bunch of people in the dark, in their beds.

The perp is going to have confidence to get to the scene undetected and that confidence is going to match the confidence it takes to enter the house to do the crime.

But the killer may have been only after 1 or 2 at the most. Surprised by male and had to kill him. Then had to kill witness in bedroom that male came from. didn't know about the other 2 in the home.
Still so many unknowns.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

my point is How did the killer know they were sleeping? if he didn't care then that changes everything.

He either gets there before the lights are turned off and he gives it some time before he can expect them to fall asleep OR he gets there when the lights are out and gives it some time before he goes in to the house. Keep in mind, apparently it was cold and icy that night, so if he's getting there before the lights are off he's waiting a good while in bad elements. He could also have had a view of the parking lot from supposedly his apartment and that would have made things a lot easier for him.

 

[whirrledpeas]

algor mortis calculation will also do it if the body is recently discovered ( the victims bodies discovered by LE sometime around noon in a heated house - apparently the house uses a heat pump

the csi compares the body temp of the victim & the ambient temperature using something called
Eureqa equation

example:

Time Of Death Calculator

The time of death calculator allows you to estimate the time that has passed between the death of a person and the body being found.

www.omnicalculator.com

Unfortunately, they didn’t do that in this case.

 

[layer]

What we don't know: complete timeline of E/X and surviving roommates on Saturday night/Sunday morning. Leads me to believe that it isn't as important as the timeline for K/M. Which then leads me to believe that both or one were the target. < MOO

Or... it could be that LE knows about something important that happened in the hazy timeline of E&X and it would compromise their investigation to reveal it. Which would mean he/she/they were the target.

Very nice first post, BTW!

 

[nocturnes]

In 2021 Idaho had 36 homicides. Where does the necessary experience come from in solving murders?

That’s why it’s good they have the FBI helping them

 

[Peppery]

How long does DNA take to run now? I've heard the geneology searches can take years for crimes.

In the Eliza Fletcher case in memphis this past September it was back within hours.

In this case, I think if they have the perp’s DNA, it’s in a mixed sample and that can take a very long time. An expert posted the process a few threads ago.

 

[Mamamerced]

Maybe no security but house was in a good community with close neighbors. This house almost seemed like a perfect college student house to live in. The roommates all seemed to get along and the property was maintained regularly by property management. I think the target was the guest and not the roommates. If any of the roommates were sole target, killer would have had many opps to kill target without guests and other roommates occupying house at kill time. I think a party continued informally at King house and killer was either college friend of one or more victims and was invited into home for some reason late night/early morning prior to murders. I think the house may have seemed messy to Coroner because of not yet cleaned up party cups and alcohol bottles/cans. I do think house was bloody scene and killer had to have spent time post killings to self clean prior to exiting home.

I think just the opposite about the house being perfect for students. It is way too exposed for any privacy....wrap-around exposure. I lived very briefly in a similar uni situation (ages ago, too), very exposed to the public in a populated area. I felt like I was in a fishbowl so I moved. I never felt safe, but the girls must have because many rooms didn't even have curtains. So many people at all hours of the day and night could look straight in those upper rooms, especially. I am not blaming the victims as they were innocents, but the house and location could have attracted much unwanted attention to the people inside.

 

[Elley Mae]

"If" is a biggie... but if they do, like many have said, it means nothing because it probably wont get a match. sure they could run it any see if it matches up, but I'm guessing any DNA sample wont be isolated as "killer" vs whoever else was in and out of there before police showed up. The problem is there is so much DNA around anyway, there is also the chance that the killer didnt leave DNA, jut like they cant find any blood trails from him either.
DNA may help this case ultimately, but there is no way they can run however many DNA samples they find and they try to rule out from there.

Blood is what I’m thinking, If there are 2 types of blood in the girls room and if there are 3 types in E&X’s room it would seem that sample would be the killer.

Jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

"If" is a biggie... but if they do, like many have said, it means nothing because it probably wont get a match. sure they could run it any see if it matches up, but I'm guessing any DNA sample wont be isolated as "killer" vs whoever else was in and out of there before police showed up. The problem is there is so much DNA around anyway, there is also the chance that the killer didnt leave DNA, jut like they cant find any blood trails from him either.
DNA may help this case ultimately, but there is no way they can run however many DNA samples they find and they try to rule out from there.

Blood is what I’m thinking, If there are 2 types of blood in the girls room and if there are 3 types in E&X’s room it would seem that sample would be the killer.

Jmo

 

[Sundog]

That’s shocking! I guess they have to lean on the FBI a lot more than other states. Can a state request help from another state? GBI and TBI (tennessee) are often seen in other cases.

If local LE are already working with the FBI, why would they need to work with another state's investigative unit? Idaho State Police, Michigan State Police, Illinois State Police are equivalent to GBI and TBI. The FBI office in Boise, Idaho would be able to draw upon the resources they need, IMO.

 

[SUSAN ANN]

Another thing we don’t know is the time from injury to death for each victim. I have to remind myself that just because it was a bloody scene doesn’t mean they died quickly. I hope for their sake they did but it could’ve been minutes or hours.

I can’t imagine how detailed the autopsies will be.

 

[Elley Mae]

"If" is a biggie... but if they do, like many have said, it means nothing because it probably wont get a match. sure they could run it any see if it matches up, but I'm guessing any DNA sample wont be isolated as "killer" vs whoever else was in and out of there before police showed up. The problem is there is so much DNA around anyway, there is also the chance that the killer didnt leave DNA, jut like they cant find any blood trails from him either.
DNA may help this case ultimately, but there is no way they can run however many DNA samples they find and they try to rule out from there.

Blood is what I’m thinking, If there are 2 types of blood in the girls room and if there are 3 types in E&X’s room it would seem that sample would be the killer.

Jmo

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

But the killer may have been only after 1 or 2 at the most. Surprised by male and had to kill him. Then had to kill witness in bedroom that male came from. didn't know about the other 2 in the home.
Still so many unknowns.

I don't know how somebody reasonably thinks that there would not be a male sleeping over on a saturday night in a house like that. I wonder how often he'd sleep over. Apparently e and x were going out for awhile.

 

[Peppery]

Unfortunately, they didn’t do that in this case.

How do we know?

 

[rescuemom]

Another thing we don’t know is the time from injury to death for each victim. I have to remind myself that just because it was a bloody scene doesn’t mean they died quickly. I hope for their sake they did but it could’ve been minutes or hours.

I would think that the amount of blood on each person could determine if the person died instantly or not. When the heart stops the blood is not pumped, right???

 

[priyaya]

<modsnip>

My curious nature and questions I have right now -
— They ostensibly signed the lease with only 3 out of 6 bedrooms occupied, how did that happen and how did the other roommates find them and sign on? How did the 3 afford a 6 bedroom (and K was moving out)?
— Why are both sororities now on probation?
— Why did X and K both recently drop out of their sororities?
<modsnip: sleuthing family>
— Why is there such a big gap in E + X’s timeline?
— Why is LE so careful with describing the victims as “likely sleeping” but also to clarify that they weren’t all in their bed?
— LE has stated they have not found any signs of forced entry?
— Why after 2 1/2 weeks is there no toxicology report released?
— If the dog was in the house and unharmed, is it even possible the dog was not crated? If it was crated, who crated it?

1. Its a college lease and the end of the semester. In theory before K moved out only one bedroom was open. Landlords in college towns know how to do rent out whats best. you have people on different credits or study abroad. I dont know why people keep asking about cost of everything has nothing to do with the case
2. Sororities go on probation all the time. Im not sure it has anything to do with the case, but usually its a hazing violation or a party where someone has to go to the hospital. It may also be just to suspend all greek activities which I've seen happen when any police get involved. I think this also protects them.
3. X and K can drop out as upper classmen and still get to party. there's no need to be in the sorority and discuss next year when you are on your way out. it can also be expensive and time consuming when you are like trying to get a job out of school
<modsnip: referenced post snipped>
5. E +X may have been at any number of parties, maybe they made dinner by a fire, who knows, but they must have been together if no one else saw them. not that weird, just a couple on a date
6. Ethan did no live in the house and neither did Kaylee so at this point we should accept it as literally they didnt live there and it was their bed.
7.yes no forced entry, sliding door was most likely still open because right by all the frats and communal house
8, we had thanksgiving in there, but yeah months and most likely there in nothing in a toxicology report other than they were drunk and maybe a little high possibly.
9. Dogs like people are very different... the dog needs to be stopped being discussed as any part of this. I assume it was out on the balcony where the dog beds were and wasnt a barker/was used to party and late night people in and out

 

[elmomom]

Unfortunately, they didn’t do that in this case.

How do you know? Do you have a link to that?

 

[kittythehare]

If local LE are already working with the FBI, why would they need to work with another state's investigative unit? Idaho State Police, Michigan State Police, Illinois State Police are equivalent to GBI and TBI. The FBI office in Boise, Idaho would be able to draw upon the resources they need, IMO.

Manpower

 

[cottonweaver]

I hope they are lying in regards to having no POI. I strongly suspect they have a people that they are continuing to investigate or watch. I hope this doesn’t turn into a Delphi type scenario!

Same. I hope it doesn't.

DutyRon ( also ex NYPD) was at pains to point out that suspects can be ' uncleared' by LE
He meant that, just because somebody is currently cleared, doesn't mean that they will stay that way, if evidence is found. ( such as DNA)

tbh I can't believe how many LE went into that home without full protective gear. ( Saw a lot with no booties, some with no gloves and others with no PPE at all)

 

[Sundog]

<snipped for focus>
I live in a college/uni town too and while it's a good place to live, we all know that predatorial types hunt these "grounds" for the purpose of killing people. Plain and simple.

I don't think you can make this claim without statistics to back it up, as in "how many murders have taken place in this town," etc.

I, too, live in a college/university town and there is no history of predatorial killing and being a hunting ground for murders.